The Sicatoka

If I were a betting man on disappearing campuses it'd go like this: Bottineau Lake Region (at Devils Lake) Mayville Williston Wahpeton or Bismarck (just one of the two two-years, the other'd survive) Valley City That would leave UND, NDSU, Minot, and Dickinson. There'd be privates (UMary, Jamestown College) in between.

I have a solution that'll make everyone happy, even JBB! Let Wanless interview Lennon, but send him Babich to coach the team! PS - My guess is the coordinator from the rival down the road (Davis) has the inside lane. A guy like that has to have better connections in the local recruiting market. However, Lennon, with his track record, can't be far behind.

Could NDSU add hockey? Sure, if they had the facilities, but the rest of their athletic house had better be in order (fiscally) or the howls from the academics and the TeamMakers could be deafening. I'm not saying it can't happen, but for it to happen the circumstances have to be very right. I think "DI" in itself is probably enough on Gene Taylor's plate for quite a while. I'd guess he'd agree. But JBB, not long ago you were saying hockey expense (and losses) was the reason that SCSU and MSU-Mankato wouldn't go up. Now you are saying hockey could be a revenue generator. I believe that is what 'Goon' tried to call you on. PS - UNO is in the CCHA with Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, et al.

Speez just reminded me of a news story from a couple of years ago. Williston HS had just made the state hockey tournament for the first time. They came to the arena to practice. The Sioux were on the ice getting a skate in before getting on the bus to a road game. The TV cameras were there to interview the Coyotes. They captured the kids watching the Sioux practice. Those kids all just stood there with their mouths hanging open and this stunned look on their faces. One of the Coyotes told the reporter something like: Their goalies skate faster in practice than our forwards!

JBB: " ... the NCAA is not known for radical moves" and seldom for rational moves. You dare speak of second class status for Bison football? Blasphemy! They'll take away your super-secret Bison football playbook decoder ring if you keep that up. I could see basketball, but hockey has long been a tough sell in Fargo. (Bears, IceSharks are gone; Concordia, a DIII power, barely out-draws the UND women.) I'm not trying to "dis" you with that, but history points that direction. SDSU, fiscally, is in a worse position than NDSU (based on CSL Reports) and probably UND. That has to be a major factor to their Regents to consider. All the schools are hedging their bets, and they should. (No one looks out for you but you.) Like I said, prepare for 2004 for in the manner that best suits how the situation is perceived. (And remember, UND has until August 2003 to put itself in the same posture that NDSU has assumed. That is not completely outside the realm of possibilities.)

InsideCollegeHockey.com? How'd a quote (and I use that term loosely) like that attributed to Blais show up there and nowhere else? That's the question.

And that's why throught all of this conversation I've maintained that the key isn't what the individual institutions do, but what the NCAA does in 2004. NDSU has upped the ante and started the "DI probation clock." Their choice. SDSU has noted a need for a conference affiliation before a move. Their choice. UND has decided to stand pat. Their choice. Who knows what's in store when the NCAA relooks at the divisions and how it will affect these positions. Scenarios? Who knows. Remove the "play up in a non-FB or BB sport" rule? UND would move up to protect hockey. Create a full IAA (all sports) level? That's anyone's guess. Change the minimums and maximum levels for participation in a division? Again, who knows. Heck, allow scholarships in DIII? That'd change the landscape also. We're all in a tizzy over this and by the end of 2004 the NCAA could have all the decision factors changed.

PCM: Didn't you know that every research grant granting organization checks your level in the National Collegiate Athletic Association before granting academic research dollars.

One group says, "Go Sioux!" The other group says, "Sioux (self-censored)!" instead of "Go Bison!" As a matter of fact, they can't say "Here we go Bison, here we go!" without adding a "Sioux (self-censored)" in there as a part of a standard crowd cheer. And they use that rally cry even when The University of North Dakota is not the opponent. Last winter it was threats and destruction of property relating to the "10 Percent" society on the NDSU campus. Then it was allegations made by the players and coaching staff of MSU-Mankato relating to crowd conduct at a recent FB game at NDSU's home field. Could NDSU finally realize that cheering for themselves is better than cheering against everyone else?

Again, who is defining the disrespect? 81% of American Indians say the name should not change. Wouldn't it be more disrespectful to change, thus ignoring them and their wishes? You continue to avoid the opportunity to refute my 'tatanka'/religious symbol assertion.

dagies: McMahon did a lot of the late defensive zone face-offs Friday. Lundbohm did the key late ones Saturday. Each was the "hot hand" at the time. Coach Blais was also tending to send Parise's line out when the puck was already in the Wisconsin zone for the face-off. Doesn't everybody notice those things?

JBB: I have posed a very plausible scenario. It is no more contrived than the Freethinkers versus Fargo City Hall Ten Commandments, especially so considering that Betty Ann Gross (a prime mover in the anti-logo debate in SD) had a problem with the Watertown (HS) Arrows logo because it had sacred eagle feathers included (drawn) in it. (She's OK with the name Arrows in of itself.) It's far from contrived scenario in today's "easily offended" world and you've attempted to dismiss it by attempting to discredit me. My question is this: Will American Indians oppose inappropriate use of a religious symbol/icon, or, will offended Christians oppose promoting a religion at a public institution? Or will both call for the change?

JBB: You don't counter the argument. You claim I'm living in denial. Who's in denial?

All I know is that (effectively) the same report was given by Carr to SDSU. They apparently (based on the Oien quote above) took the words to heart.

JBB: You missed it completely. If I'm right, a small minority of "the possibly offended" people can claim that they are offended. How many have to be offended before you take action? 1%? 19 plus or minus 4%? What about the majority of the "possibly offended" who aren't? There's the rub. There's the parallel. You don't understand the situation until it hits home. Next, in one case you are talking about people. In another case you are talking about established religions. Saying things, pro or con, about people is Constitutionally protected. Government entities establishing religions (or using religious icons) is quite another. Re-read Amendment 1: Before it says free speech, it says shall not establish a religion. No I'm not using the "you do it too" defense. I'm just getting you ready for the next debate from the American Indian peoples and those of other faiths. Again, laugh. Who would have believe the Freethinkers would ever dare do what they are doing in Fargo. Who's next?

Psssst .... It's at PrideOnIce.com

An analytic approach?

Isn't this what some of us suggested in the beginning, namely, that NDSU hoped that their move without a conference would cause the de facto formation of a new "D-IAA" NCC? Look at who's been suggested to be there in this "new" conference: Northern Colorado North Dakota State South Dakota State

JBB: No. I'm a Christian and I am offended. If the atheists can be offended by, and demand removal of, the Ten Commandments at Fargo City Hall (and any other public locale), I as a Christian can be offended by my government, or its entities, promoting, as I perceive it, another religion. It could be perceived as promoting an organized religion, namely that of the American Indians, by the promotion of their sacred symbol. That promotion, by a government body, would violate separation. It'd be a fun case for the ACLU attorneys. Now, you're sitting there saying, "Rediculous! What a baffoon!" but who would have believed 30 years ago that anyone would howl about Fargo's Ten Commandments monument. PS - I've never seen "Dances with Wolves." I can't stand Costner unless he's in a baseball film.

JBB: Please respond to the following assertion: As the cross is a sacred symbol in Christianity, as the Star of David is the sacred symbol of the Jewish faith, "tatanka" is the sacred symbol of "Wakatanka" (The Great Spirit) to the American Indians of the Plains. "Tatanka" is sacred in American Indian religion. A public school is using "tatanka" as a mascot. Some may construe it to be a public institution endorsing a particular religion and government shall not establish a religion. Others could construe it to be an insensitive insult, a horrible misuse, of their sacred symbol. Tatanka? You know it in English as Bison.

Another week, another article. Apparently it's Sports Illustrated's turn. Thread at USCHO

Surgeon?

Either you need to go to Stupid, I mean STUDENT Health, or you need to stop going on Al Pearson's bus trips. I believe the statement by 'forecheck' just might be the definition of "way too much information."

But Duluth wouldn't be a bad game at all. They are a playoff team this year. Hey, why didn't Duluth and NDSU play this year? I had heard the deal was set. What caused the back-out (by Duluth)?

You folks missed the Fargo Forum Editorial Board's take on the situation: Forum editorial: Keep NDSU out of UND logo debate The Forum - 11/20/2002