[yekcoh]

Sioux-cia, on Jan 10 2007, 10:26 AM, said:

Quote

....but now i hate redskins and hope all those drunk casino owning bums die.

This sounds so very like posts made by GK after he hacked into my account.......

Me thinks someone has found something to do with all his extra time.

He had a sex change? Hehe.

[Sioux-cia]

yekcoh, on Jan 10 2007, 07:18 PM, said:

Sioux-cia, on Jan 10 2007, 10:26 AM, said:

Quote

....but now i hate redskins and hope all those drunk casino owning bums die.

This sounds so very like posts made by GK after he hacked into my account.......

Me thinks someone has found something to do with all his extra time.

He had a sex change? Hehe.

[Riverman]

GeauxSioux, on Jan 9 2007, 09:26 PM, said:

The Herald has picked up the story with Buning's comments added.
UND NICKNAME: Brand: NCAA won't back down

Quote

"Based on Brand's statement, I'm glad we have the injunction and if this is a projected fight, at least the sanctions that would negatively affect the student athletes are off the table for now," Buning told the Herald on Tuesday. "It definitely places great value on the injunction."

Buning was at the NCAA Convention in Orlando, Fla., and he was greeted with many questions as to the status of the nickname debate at UND, he said.

"People were all very interested and yet I don't know if those people realize how much a part of everyday culture that image is here," said Buning. "This requires a individualized approach to the issue more than a cookie-cutter one."

Can you hear Brand doing Homer Simpson's voice, d'oh?

I read the day before most of the "Big Boys"
were in AZ. So the convention was mostly a farce.

" The convention usually brings together the NCAA's top policy makers,but nine of the "Big One's" aren't here. Only
two of the D1A Conf. comish attended. Sun Belt and Conf. USA. ACC, SEC, and their peers opted to go to Glendale, AZ.,
where something they control directly- the Bowl Championship Series concludes the first year of it's new contract."

Source GF Herald AP release Orlando Sentinel

Way to run the show there Myles.

[The Sicatoka]

The Sicatoka, on Dec 21 2006, 04:23 PM, said:

If it were up to me, I'd have CEK walk to the podeum tomorrow and say:

... "Please also note, effective same date, UND will, in the spirit of helping meet the wishes and desires of Ms. Vermillion, head of Sitting Bull College, cease all cooperative activities, of any sort, with Sitting Bull College. ...

That is all. Thank you."

... Never vote me in as "King for a Day."

Not quite the same, but still interesting ....

NORTH DAKOTA LEGISLATURE: Bail-out for INMED unlikely

And what does " 2 + 2 " equal in your world?

[Sioux-cia]

The Sicatoka, on Jan 11 2007, 04:35 PM, said:

NORTH DAKOTA LEGISLATURE: Bail-out for INMED unlikely

The federal tax cuts affect INMED programs across the country. I think it's time the tribes stepped up and provide monetary support for the INMED programs. They have a proven record of success. The feds are putting the brakes on many 'hand outs' and most institutions, especially those the size of UND, can't afford to foot the bill for 'special needs' programs. To do so would mean taking money from other departments and, unfortunately, that would not be a fair distribution of funds.

The Name Change proponents have been quick to proudly point out that the NA programs at UND are mainly funded with federal grants not state funds. Now is the time for them to look elsewhere for monies to keep those programs afloat.

Quote

Wilson said he has contacted several American Indian tribes to ask if they can offer supplemental funding.

[GeauxSioux]

Check Hypocrisy at the Door

Quote

Hypocrisy is everywhere these days. In pop culture, it's Donald Trump playing judge, jury, and executioner of ethics and morality. In politics, it's former Congressman Mark Foley chairing the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. In sports, it's T.O. opening his mouth. It's the fart in the room that nobody wants to claim, and until someone opens a window, it seems it's staying stinkily put.
columnist-dekrey

It's no different at the University of North Dakota, especially when discussing the ever-problematic and ever-controversial 'Fighting Sioux' nickname. Three specific instances of blatant hypocrisy have emerged in the course of the whole mess that makes one question the merits of the circumstances at hand, leaving one to wonder — is the juice of keeping the nickname worth the squeeze?

Quote

Finally, shame on UND President Charles Kupchella for his flip-flopping of opinion on the matter. It seems Kupchella, much like the NCAA and Dartmouth, succumbed to the pressures of the almighty dollar, allowing it to dictate and manipulate his stance. Long before the NCAA mandated a nickname change at UND, Kupchella was well in the works of sewing the seeds of change.

[Chewey]

GeauxSioux, on Jan 11 2007, 11:52 PM, said:

Check Hypocrisy at the Door

Quote

Hypocrisy is everywhere these days. In pop culture, it's Donald Trump playing judge, jury, and executioner of ethics and morality. In politics, it's former Congressman Mark Foley chairing the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. In sports, it's T.O. opening his mouth. It's the fart in the room that nobody wants to claim, and until someone opens a window, it seems it's staying stinkily put.
columnist-dekrey

It's no different at the University of North Dakota, especially when discussing the ever-problematic and ever-controversial 'Fighting Sioux' nickname. Three specific instances of blatant hypocrisy have emerged in the course of the whole mess that makes one question the merits of the circumstances at hand, leaving one to wonder — is the juice of keeping the nickname worth the squeeze?

Quote

Finally, shame on UND President Charles Kupchella for his flip-flopping of opinion on the matter. It seems Kupchella, much like the NCAA and Dartmouth, succumbed to the pressures of the almighty dollar, allowing it to dictate and manipulate his stance. Long before the NCAA mandated a nickname change at UND, Kupchella was well in the works of sewing the seeds of change.

While he makes some good points, his less than professional imagery could have been left out. I don't think Kupchella was ever really in favor of changing the name. He tried to say something diplomatically and, of course, the absolutist and authoritarian name change crowd boot strapped what he said into a "message of support for positive change." I am not sure if this propriety-impaired fellow is on the side of the PC'ers but he seems to have bought their line of thinking as far as Kupchella's previous remarks are concerned.

[Diggler]

Dane is awesome. Though it is quite dumbfounding that a guy who was too hung over to cover a UND volleyball game last year for the Stupid was hired by CHN.

[PCM]

Chewey, on Jan 11 2007, 10:08 PM, said:

I don't think Kupchella was ever really in favor of changing the name. He tried to say something diplomatically and, of course, the absolutist and authoritarian name change crowd boot strapped what he said into a "message of support for positive change." I am not sure if this propriety-impaired fellow is on the side of the PC'ers but he seems to have bought their line of thinking as far as Kupchella's previous remarks are concerned.

As Kupchella explains here, he never was going to change the name. One sentence out of a very long e-mail he wrote is continually taken out of context and used as "proof" that he would have changed the nickname if not for Ralph Engelstad's intervention. Anyone who claims to know what Kupchella was going to do is just full of it.

[ScottM]

Quote

Kupchella was well in the works of sewing the seeds of change.

How does one "sew" seeds? Do you use very tiny needles and threads? Does Kupchella have a hobby left off his CV?

Either Chuck was hiding something, or the writer is an unmitigated idiot. You decide ...

[PCM]

ScottM, on Jan 12 2007, 09:07 AM, said:

How does one "sew" seeds? Do you use very tiny needles and threads? Does Kupchella have a hobby left off his CV?

I'm pretty sure that the seeds of change are invisible, so sewing them is even more difficult than it sounds. I think Charles must be a wizard or something.

[Sioux-cia]

PCM, on Jan 12 2007, 10:27 AM, said:

ScottM, on Jan 12 2007, 09:07 AM, said:

How does one "sew" seeds? Do you use very tiny needles and threads? Does Kupchella have a hobby left off his CV?

I'm pretty sure that the seeds of change are invisible, so sewing them is even more difficult than it sounds. I think Charles must be a wizard or something.

Chuck must also be a farmer. The seeds need to be sown before they can be sewn, even invisible seeds.

[PCM]

Sioux-cia, on Jan 12 2007, 11:42 AM, said:

Chuck must also be a farmer.

He prefers not to discuss his degree from NDSU.

[redwing77]

undsportsfan, on Jan 9 2007, 08:06 PM, said:

sioux7>5, on Jan 7 2007, 03:02 PM, said:

Gothmog, on Jan 7 2007, 02:51 PM, said:

redwing77, on Jan 7 2007, 02:41 PM, said:

Gothmog, on Jan 7 2007, 03:45 PM, said:

As far as UND, someday, convincing the majority of tribes to "work with" the university. UND has had 30+ years to do just that. There is absolutely no reason to believe that it will be able to do so in 30 more years. Do you really want decades more of this?

Just a quick question, If UND regardless of the nickname has no hope to work with the tribes over the next 30 years, does that mean the University is wasting money on those 30 Native American only programs they fund?

I think we all understand the concept of representative democracy. The plain fact is that the overwhelming majority of Sioux tribes have, through their tribal governments, expressed opposition to the nickname.

You've got a losing argument.

I think you are wrong. I have always heard that it is only the tribal leaders and a few others that make a big stink over the nickname. The majority of tribal members supprt UND and like the nickname. I am beginning to think that Gothmog is actually GK in disguise.

Ok, how come when the nickname issue is out and about we start 'threatening' to take money away towards Native American programs? the nickname has nothing to do with these programs.

why is this accused to be Gothmog GK in disguise? Or am I GK in disguise? or anyone else who is a member of this website that have debated the issue from the opposing side of the discussion? Why can't we just state our personal opinions and all be different people that have similar opinions, as many of you do about supporting the nickname? Or are you all one person? I don't know who Gothmog is, but perhaps it is actually someone new. But I haven't been posting on these forums lately... just reading them.

Everyone regardless of their position is often told that they are wrong for what they believe, and in turn, they ask why their opinion is wrong, and everyone else is right? then they go and do the same thing again and again. its like a broken record.

as for 'hearing' it's only tribal leaders and a few others, i'd have to beg to differ. There's plenty of people that don't support the nickname, some are more vocal then others obviously. Some of us naive people that we'd be able to give different perspectives on the matter too, only to be harassed and mistreated. And all we wanted was to be heard, to be listened to. Instead nothing but disrespect and claims that a few of us were the ones being disrespectful or calling others racists or engaging in reverse racism. Something I have not been involved in, yes there are people who come on here and do engage in racists acts, which I disagree with, but others, well, again, just want to have an actual conversation without resorting to name calling. Because we know how name calling gets a job done...

anyway... I hope everyone had a good holiday and happy new year.

PCM is right about my post. You need to reread it along with the Gothmog post I quoted. I didn't say we should discontinue funding. I said that since Gothmog claims that UND has no chance of working with the tribes in the next 30+ years, that we are merely insulting the tribes' intelligences by doing what we do to support them? It's ridiculous to assume that UND and the tribes cannot work together. The problem is that there is too much politics getting in the way.

UND has said repeatedly "Let's work this out" to the tribes and some tribal leaders have responded "Change the name and we'll work things out." (paraphrased) How is that compromise? How is that willingness to work with the University? If Gothmog is indeed correct and UND won't be able to work with the tribes, can UND be held responsible for such a breakdown if they are attempting to work with the tribes and the tribes refuse to work with UND? It seems more like the tribes' fault rather than the University's. Yet, everyone is willing to point fingers at UND because of a nickname and the fact that, like most of North Dakota, it is predominantly white. UND is also run like a business, not a commune akin to socialistic idiologies. Why that is worth noting because that seems to be the growing mindset among many minorities towards the white person and white-run industry. The White people should do everything in their power to make things easier for minorities to compete except expecting them to perform at the same level as white people. Why? Now, perhaps Gothmog or undsportsfan can help me answer this one. I thought the only difference intelligence wise between a Native American and a White person was... um... I don't know. I don't see any difference in intelligence between the two. Saying that there is would be like justifying people who long ago said that the reason why blacks are slaves is because they are incapable of thinking like a white man. So, if Native Americans are just as smart as White people (which I think they are), why can't they obtain the same level of qualification as white people and succeed accordingly? Why do maybe 51% of Native Americans graduate from high school and then many complain about how life is not treating them well compared to the white person, of which over 85% (hovering around 90% actually) graduate high school?

The fact is that life isn't like some of the things you get on the reservation. You don't get a hefty sum of money on your 18th birthday. You don't get federal handouts based on present sympathies regarding past events in the real world. You fight to survive every day and many white people equate education as part of the fight. If you don't make it part of the fight, you don't succeed educationally and, hence, you start to see a disparity between yourself and the people you compete with. In American society, you have to work to get what you want. With that work comes a measure of conformity and adapting a mindset different from how you were raised. This midset and conformity don't necessarily mean eliminating your home culture. It means putting on a different face when you leave the home or community center. That's difficult for many people, not just Native Americans. I could give examples. However, it is never the fault of the person for not succeeding, it's some third party's fault. Time to stand up and take some of the blame yourselves for the toil and anguish you and your family endure. If that happens, then maybe they will in turn help others recognize it and then the 49% who don't have a high school diploma may go back for their GED and start thinking not about how to be a Native American in American society, but rather how to be an AMerican without losing my Native American heritage.

No, this isn't just a Native American problem. This is a problem all over the place. Affirmative Action and quotas embody the same or similar things. I mean, would you feel good about yourself if you were hired not because you were best qualified for the job, but rather because there aren't enough Native Americans employed by the company and the company needed to fill that slot in order to avoid being labelled as a racist organization? SUre, you'd end up with a nice job. And I bet it would be difficult to back up and say "I will not be the company's pet" when the salary of the job will provide adequately for your family and it is a job you wanted to hold, qualified or not.

Sorry I was late in response. But that's my perspective on this.

[Goon]

redwing77, on Jan 13 2007, 11:46 AM, said:

You don't get federal handouts based on present sympathies regarding past events in the real world.

Don't speak too soon, especially with the present party in power.

[Sioux-cia]

Goon, on Jan 15 2007, 09:44 AM, said:

redwing77, on Jan 13 2007, 11:46 AM, said:

You don't get federal handouts based on present sympathies regarding past events in the real world.

Don't speak too soon, especially with the present party in power.

Cool. I want the ancesteral land that was stolen by the Gringos and, by treaty, should either still be ours or at the very least paid for!!

[undsportsfan]

redwing77, on Jan 13 2007, 09:46 AM, said:

UND has said repeatedly "Let's work this out" to the tribes and some tribal leaders have responded "Change the name and we'll work things out." (paraphrased) How is that compromise? How is that willingness to work with the University? If Gothmog is indeed correct and UND won't be able to work with the tribes, can UND be held responsible for such a breakdown if they are attempting to work with the tribes and the tribes refuse to work with UND? It seems more like the tribes' fault rather than the University's. Yet, everyone is willing to point fingers at UND because of a nickname and the fact that, like most of North Dakota, it is predominantly white. UND is also run like a business, not a commune akin to socialistic idiologies. Why that is worth noting because that seems to be the growing mindset among many minorities towards the white person and white-run industry. The White people should do everything in their power to make things easier for minorities to compete except expecting them to perform at the same level as white people. Why? Now, perhaps Gothmog or undsportsfan can help me answer this one. I thought the only difference intelligence wise between a Native American and a White person was... um... I don't know. I don't see any difference in intelligence between the two. Saying that there is would be like justifying people who long ago said that the reason why blacks are slaves is because they are incapable of thinking like a white man. So, if Native Americans are just as smart as White people (which I think they are), why can't they obtain the same level of qualification as white people and succeed accordingly? Why do maybe 51% of Native Americans graduate from high school and then many complain about how life is not treating them well compared to the white person, of which over 85% (hovering around 90% actually) graduate high school?

The fact is that life isn't like some of the things you get on the reservation. You don't get a hefty sum of money on your 18th birthday. You don't get federal handouts based on present sympathies regarding past events in the real world. You fight to survive every day and many white people equate education as part of the fight. If you don't make it part of the fight, you don't succeed educationally and, hence, you start to see a disparity between yourself and the people you compete with. In American society, you have to work to get what you want. With that work comes a measure of conformity and adapting a mindset different from how you were raised. This midset and conformity don't necessarily mean eliminating your home culture. It means putting on a different face when you leave the home or community center. That's difficult for many people, not just Native Americans. I could give examples. However, it is never the fault of the person for not succeeding, it's some third party's fault. Time to stand up and take some of the blame yourselves for the toil and anguish you and your family endure. If that happens, then maybe they will in turn help others recognize it and then the 49% who don't have a high school diploma may go back for their GED and start thinking not about how to be a Native American in American society, but rather how to be an AMerican without losing my Native American heritage.

No, this isn't just a Native American problem. This is a problem all over the place. Affirmative Action and quotas embody the same or similar things. I mean, would you feel good about yourself if you were hired not because you were best qualified for the job, but rather because there aren't enough Native Americans employed by the company and the company needed to fill that slot in order to avoid being labelled as a racist organization? SUre, you'd end up with a nice job. And I bet it would be difficult to back up and say "I will not be the company's pet" when the salary of the job will provide adequately for your family and it is a job you wanted to hold, qualified or not.

Sorry I was late in response. But that's my perspective on this.

So I want some heft sum that everyone seems to always talk about when we debate the nickname issue. I want some of these royalty and treaty checks. I was born and raised on a reservation and still enrolled there. My mailbox is empty yet.

I get so tired of everyone quick to assume the know so much about life as a Native American and life on a reservation. I don't care if someone here will argue they have lived on one. EACH RESERVATION AND TRIBE IS DIFFERENT. Just assuming each person gets some heft sum of money from the government is yet another stereotype.

As for taking care of one another, yeah I guess according to America, I'm socialist. I believe in taking care one another. I guess I'm a good doer that makes people sick to their stomachs. I don't care what the color of a person's skin is. If they're hungry, I'll feed them. If they're need a place to sleep, I'll get them shelter. If they're hurting, I'll find a way to stop that pain. Its the way I was raised I suppose.

You know, aren't we debating the nickname? Oh, no... lets criticize Natives and bring up anything negative we can think of so we can take the focuse off of the issue once again.

Yes, its sad that the drop out rate is high on reservations. We're working on it. I can say on my reservation the school enrollment and graduating rate increases yearly. Good for them! And many people do continue to get their GED's. But then, many of these elders in our community still don't speak English. Good for them that they have preserved what's left of the language here. However, its just now becoming customary for children to go to school. I sit and visit with my elders, they were taken out of their homes at young ages to work and make ends meet because their original way of life wasn't allowed, and they suddenly had to pay bills for the current times. Some of these people are only 60 years old. So forgive me and anyone else that sympathizes with lack of American Education standards. However I think many of these people are far more intelligent than people with that posses a doctorate. Infact, one of the more successful men in the TriState area from Indian Country didn't recieve a complete education.

I am not to discuss Affirmative Action here either. Like many things, I don't agree with it, but it had a purpose and reason behind it. And again... lets get back to the issue of the nickname. Not cutting down my people. I don't do it to anyone here... so why is it okay for you to do it? I thought you honor us?

[Sioux-cia]

undsportsfan, on Jan 16 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

Yes, its sad that the drop out rate is high on reservations. We're working on it. I can say on my reservation the school enrollment and graduating rate increases yearly. Good for them! And many people do continue to get their GED's. But then, many of these elders in our community still don't speak English. Good for them that they have preserved what's left of the language here. However, its just now becoming customary for children to go to school. I sit and visit with my elders, they were taken out of their homes at young ages to work and make ends meet because their original way of life wasn't allowed, and they suddenly had to pay bills for the current times. Some of these people are only 60 years old. So forgive me and anyone else that sympathizes with lack of American Education standards. However I think many of these people are far more intelligent than people with that posses a doctorate. Infact, one of the more successful men in the TriState area from Indian Country didn't recieve a complete education.

I am not to discuss Affirmative Action here either. Like many things, I don't agree with it, but it had a purpose and reason behind it. And again... lets get back to the issue of the nickname. Not cutting down my people. I don't do it to anyone here... so why is it okay for you to do it? I thought you honor us?

Native Americans are not the only Americans who have had it tough!! I'm not going to go on and on about Mexican Americans and how they were treated in the past and treated today, here and now. I already did that only to get slammed by a Native American who doesn't think anyone else's plight is worthy of recognition. You think RW77's family vacationed through the holocaust? What about the Irish who were conscripted into a war that wasn't their's. What about African Americans? On and on and on..... Yet these American's managed to rise above all the hardships, etc. and succeed in life. Don't expect me to sympathize with your position. I don't but I do offer help out of it. It's here for anyone who wants it.

No, I don't 'honor' you. I honor your ancestors. I don't need to tell you why.

[SiouxPride0303]

Sioux-cia, on Jan 16 2007, 08:52 PM, said:

undsportsfan, on Jan 16 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

Yes, its sad that the drop out rate is high on reservations. We're working on it. I can say on my reservation the school enrollment and graduating rate increases yearly. Good for them! And many people do continue to get their GED's. But then, many of these elders in our community still don't speak English. Good for them that they have preserved what's left of the language here. However, its just now becoming customary for children to go to school. I sit and visit with my elders, they were taken out of their homes at young ages to work and make ends meet because their original way of life wasn't allowed, and they suddenly had to pay bills for the current times. Some of these people are only 60 years old. So forgive me and anyone else that sympathizes with lack of American Education standards. However I think many of these people are far more intelligent than people with that posses a doctorate. Infact, one of the more successful men in the TriState area from Indian Country didn't recieve a complete education.

I am not to discuss Affirmative Action here either. Like many things, I don't agree with it, but it had a purpose and reason behind it. And again... lets get back to the issue of the nickname. Not cutting down my people. I don't do it to anyone here... so why is it okay for you to do it? I thought you honor us?

Native Americans are not the only Americans who have had it tough!! I'm not going to go on and on about Mexican Americans and how they were treated in the past and treated today, here and now. I already did that only to get slammed by a Native American who doesn't think anyone else's plight is worthy of recognition. You think RW77's family vacationed through the holocaust? What about the Irish who were conscripted into a war that wasn't their's. What about African Americans? On and on and on..... Yet these American's managed to rise above all the hardships, etc. and succeed in life. Don't expect me to sympathize with your position. I don't but I do offer help out of it. It's here for anyone who wants it.

No, I don't 'honor' you. I honor your ancestors. I don't need to tell you why.

Exactly....please google Teaching Tolerance. Then look at their video called "A Place at the Table." We viewed and discussed this at my place of work yesterday for MLK day. If my gangbanging, crack abusing, juvenile delinquents can understand that not only certain groups of people have had to struggle, then grown successful intellectual adults should be able to get it too.

[redwing77]

Sioux-cia, on Jan 16 2007, 08:52 PM, said:

undsportsfan, on Jan 16 2007, 06:54 PM, said:

Yes, its sad that the drop out rate is high on reservations. We're working on it. I can say on my reservation the school enrollment and graduating rate increases yearly. Good for them! And many people do continue to get their GED's. But then, many of these elders in our community still don't speak English. Good for them that they have preserved what's left of the language here. However, its just now becoming customary for children to go to school. I sit and visit with my elders, they were taken out of their homes at young ages to work and make ends meet because their original way of life wasn't allowed, and they suddenly had to pay bills for the current times. Some of these people are only 60 years old. So forgive me and anyone else that sympathizes with lack of American Education standards. However I think many of these people are far more intelligent than people with that posses a doctorate. Infact, one of the more successful men in the TriState area from Indian Country didn't recieve a complete education.

I am not to discuss Affirmative Action here either. Like many things, I don't agree with it, but it had a purpose and reason behind it. And again... lets get back to the issue of the nickname. Not cutting down my people. I don't do it to anyone here... so why is it okay for you to do it? I thought you honor us?

Native Americans are not the only Americans who have had it tough!! I'm not going to go on and on about Mexican Americans and how they were treated in the past and treated today, here and now. I already did that only to get slammed by a Native American who doesn't think anyone else's plight is worthy of recognition. You think RW77's family vacationed through the holocaust? What about the Irish who were conscripted into a war that wasn't their's. What about African Americans? On and on and on..... Yet these American's managed to rise above all the hardships, etc. and succeed in life. Don't expect me to sympathize with your position. I don't but I do offer help out of it. It's here for anyone who wants it.

No, I don't 'honor' you. I honor your ancestors. I don't need to tell you why.

Sioux-cia- Thanks. I'm sure my grandparents got to see a lot of the country side while they fled in terror. All they say is "At least I lived! I wish I could say that about my brothers and sisters!" And then she'd go on about how I would have loved my Great Uncle (who'd be about 75 or so now if he were alive).

undsportsfan- You know what? You are right. Every tribe is different. But where you are wrong is where you cling onto your grandparents' injustices. You speak about how wrong it was that they weren't allowed to do certain things and personalize it as your own. That's horrible. My grandparents' family (my extended family) were slaughtered wholesale in very sick ways by the Germans. But I don't go on vendettas to curb German acts and behaviors found around the US (such as Ocktoberfest is held in certain places in the US).

No one said you have to let your culture die. I certainly didn't. Your elders speak the language. GREAT! Who says your youth can't? They may not be able to speak the language in schools or colleges and such, but that's because the people that are not Native American don't speak that language and you need to speak English to succeed in the US. It's HOW IT IS! Please tell me how a Mexican American (no offense Sioux cia) or person from a non-English speaking country can expect to survive and prosper in the US if they can't speak, read, or understand the English language? In the US, I hear it called "home culture" and I believe in "home culture" as just that, your culture at "home." What and where is home? Well, as they say, "Home is where the heart is." My father speaks, reads, and writes fluent English. When he goes home to visit with his parents (my grandparents) do you know how much English is spoken? ZERO. NONE. He speaks Yiddish to his parents (Yiddish, for you folks, is a spoken dialect of German but a written dialect of Hebrew). Do you know how my grandparents were treated when they showed up speaking that language? they were treated like they didn't know English. They figured out RIGHT AWAY that in order to succeed in the US, they had to learn English. They did the best they could and, when my father was old enough, he'd help them learn English. I have a friend who is Vietnamese and his parents speak English, sure, but when he talks to his parents or his parents talk to him, they aren't speaking English, let me assure you.

Do you understand what I'm saying and why I am saying this to you, undsportsfan? You seem to rationalize this nickname as some sort of vendetta further holding your ethnicity back when, in fact, it is your own people that are holding themselves back. No changing of the nickname, no sort of admission on anyone's part outside of your people will change that! My family struggled to survive and they succeeded! Some Native American families struggle to survive and succeed as well. Some of them leave the reservation never to return, which is too bad. Others forget their heritage, which is sad. But what about the rest? The 49% of those who don't graduate high school? The percentages of those that do or get a GED and don't continue their education even though they may qualify for tuition assistance?

What is your people doing to help themselves? And when you asked "Aren't we talking about the nickname" we really are actually. Pro-changers talk about the affliction that the nickname brings on and we counter that there is no proof otherwise. You have yet to show proof! When this is breached, the aspect of social justice pops up and, with that, the "plight" issue. No one says Native Americans don't have it rough. However, they aren't exactly oppressed either. Didn't many schools of higher education install incentive programs for Native American students that help them either make a choice to attend college or help them through it once they are there? Isn't there protection under law in the Equal Opportunity Act and the Civil Rights Amendment?

Your people are holding themselves back. And, it is partially because of socialistic mindsets. Not because they want to help take care of each other. Far from it. It's because they expect EVERYONE to take care of each other, Whites to take care of Native Americans, Whites to take care of African Americans, Whites to take care of everyone, because Whites are percieved to be "rich enough." Why are they percieved that way? Were Americans always so rich? Were pathways always open to us? Nope. We made our own pathways. One such pathway lead us to the very creation of the United States. Help yourselves, that's fine, but the best help you can do for yourself as far as an ethnicity would be to start using the American societal value set to your advantage. Start getting more than just your tribe's Native American's to graduate high school! Match or exceed the Caucasian's graduation rates (based upon total number of students of that ethnicity). You want to be equal to Caucasians, GOOD! But Caucasians can't make you equal to Caucasians. Only Native Americans can. No amount of sympathy or jumping to your every concern will change that. The nickname is merely a front. A small battle that will make you feel good for a little while if you win. But it will not improve anything other than your morale for a little while... until something else comes up and then it is off to advocate for that change.

I could go on and on, but I feel I'm already ranting endlessly as it is.