Board could retire name within a few weeks

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

We need to pressure the board in keeping to the terms of the agreement because Ron Ncneil is up for reelection in 2009. UND has until 2010. He is pressuring the Board so he does not have this as an issue because the majority of the Standing Rock members might have their voice heard by voing him out.

[mksioux]

We don't have to retire the name! We just cannot use the name/logo for sports playoffs. So for hockey thats what, 4 games max per year if we make it that far? Football is what, 4 games max...who cares

GO FIGHTING SIOOUX

Ummm, you are forgetting about the part where UND can't host any playoffs game. That would kill the football program, because DI-AA, like DII, awards playoff home games based on merit. Imagine telling recruits that because of its nickname, UND will never host a playoff game regardless of record or ranking.

[TheGreatSiouxNation]

Ummm, you are forgetting about the part where UND can't host any playoffs game. That would kill the football program, because DI-AA, like DII, awards playoff home games based on merit. Imagine telling recruits that because of its nickname, UND will never host a playoff game regardless of record or ranking.

Isn't that what NDSU coaches used to tell their recruit in the 90s

[Big A HG]

Judging by how many NA's live in (and destroy) my apartment complex, I can bet they don't care about any free college degree. What a joke...the only Sioux Pride out there is that within the University, not outside of it.

[Hawkster]

Seriously, how many times do I have to repeat myself? Do you see that little tiny "TM" underneath the logo? That stands for trademark. In America, that's when you register something and no one else can copy it as their own or create a "rip-off". That logo remains property of the Dallas Stars. Anytime someone buys one of those nifty North Stars retro jerseys, part of the money goes to the NHL and the Dallas Stars. You can't copy that logo any more than you can copy the Blackhawk logo without paying the owner of the trademark a hefty fee.

And, if we're going to name the team after the state motto of a next-door neighbor, could we at least be the University of North Dakota Big Sky or the University of North Dakota Rushmores? God knows I don't want some knee-jerk academia nut to suggest that we become the University of North Dakota Peace Gardeners.

You know, we are sometimes called "The Flickertail State", but I don't think we want to go there. I could live with the name, but there are better ones.

Regarding the trademark on the Northstars, I'm not sure, but I think there is some provision that you have to have a reason to protect your trademark or it lapses. No Northstars in existence so it might be possible. I could live with Northstars also. Could also live with Fighting Dakotans. I feel that no name is no solution. Far to easy to lapse into bad habits and use the Sioux name. Unacceptable to me.

I don't want Blizzards, Tornadoes, Pumas, Mustangs, etc.

[SportsDoc]

I don't want Blizzards, Tornadoes, Pumas, Mustangs, etc.

What does etc. mean here when your choices are all over the board?

[Hawkster]

What does etc. mean here when your choices are all over the board?

I don't want something lame. The Flickertail comment was tongue in cheek, even though it's historical and unique.

[MafiaMan]

Regarding the trademark on the Northstars, I'm not sure, but I think there is some provision that you have to have a reason to protect your trademark or it lapses. No Northstars in existence so it might be possible. I could live with Northstars also. Could also live with Fighting Dakotans. I feel that no name is no solution. Far to easy to lapse into bad habits and use the Sioux name. Unacceptable to me.

The Hartford Whalers aren't in existence anymore either, but it doesn't prevent Peter Karmanos, owner of the now Carolina Hurricanes from making a buck or two off of the sale of Whaler merchandise. The North Stars don't exist any longer, but, trust me, their trademark has not lapsed. Just log onto www.nhl.com and check out the catalog. Retro is in...and North Stars stuff is everywhere.

[luapsided]

I don't want something lame. The Flickertail comment was tongue in cheek, even though it's historical and unique.

Flickertail= gay

[fightingsioux4life]

Seriously, how many times do I have to repeat myself? Do you see that little tiny "TM" underneath the logo? That stands for trademark. In America, that's when you register something and no one else can copy it as their own or create a "rip-off". That logo remains property of the Dallas Stars. Anytime someone buys one of those nifty North Stars retro jerseys, part of the money goes to the NHL and the Dallas Stars. You can't copy that logo any more than you can copy the Blackhawk logo without paying the owner of the trademark a hefty fee.

And, if we're going to name the team after the state motto of a next-door neighbor, could we at least be the University of North Dakota Big Sky or the University of North Dakota Rushmores? God knows I don't want some knee-jerk academia nut to suggest that we become the University of North Dakota Peace Gardeners.

MafiaMan,

I have to disagree with you on this. For years, UND had a verison of the Chicago Blackhawk logo on the front of its hockey jerseys. There must have been some type of agreement with the NHL franchise to use it. Why couldn't a similar agreement be forged with the Dallas (South) Stars? (sorry I couldn't resist the dig against that franchise)

As for the North Star name being Minnesota's state motto (actually, it's Star of the North, but who's paying attention), well I couldn't care less about that. If we are going to build the search process on the premise of not using something that someone else used in the past or is using in the present, it's going to take a long time to find a suitable replacement. When Grand Forks Central switched from Redskins to Maroon and Grey and finally to Knights, some people said that Climax-Fisher used the name already and it was wrong, wrong, wrong for Central to use it. Well, its been about 13 years since GFC adopted Knights as its name and it hasn't caused any problems for anyone. Any new name should be able to incorporate our school colors and be able to stand up to the test of time. It should also be marketable and give us an identity. North Stars fits this criteria. I'm not saying that it's the perfect solution or even the right solution, but we are going to have to broaden our criteria as it pertains to what we will consider and accept or else this process will not yield a palatable result.

[LeftyZL]

MafiaMan,

I have to disagree with you on this. For years, UND had a verison of the Chicago Blackhawk logo on the front of its hockey jerseys. There must have been some type of agreement with the NHL franchise to use it. Why couldn't a similar agreement be forged with the Dallas (South) Stars? (sorry I couldn't resist the dig against that franchise)

I thought UND used the logo until Chicago told them that they had to pay up or change to a different logo. I could be wrong, that's just what I recall.

[Siouxmama]

I thought UND used the logo until Chicago told them that they had to pay up or change to a different logo. I could be wrong, that's just what I recall.

Was UND's Blackhawk logo and Chicago's logo exactly the same?

[82SiouxGuy]

Was UND's Blackhawk logo and Chicago's logo exactly the same?

IIRC it was a blatant rip-off. Pretty much identical.

[petey23]

I was thinking we should just go ahead and dump the logo and let them deal with the consequences that come with that decision whatever they may be. But now I think that as long as we have 3 years that we should go ahead and take our time. The anti-name people have already presented their case and they certainly are not going to add anything new to the equation. Lets present ideas and opportunities, make them clear to the people on the reservations and most importantly....lets wait out an election cycle. The average person of Sioux heritage probably does not give 2 rips about the name one way or the other, but I have to think that having people representing me in office who do not care what I or the poeple who put them there think could make for an interesting election at Standing Rock.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I thought UND used the logo until Chicago told them that they had to pay up or change to a different logo.

C'mon, "Dollar Bill" Wirtz make a decision based on money?? That never happened....

(Actually, since his death many stories have surfaced about Wirtzie's generosity. He had his business quirks, but OTOH there was no such thing as a down-on-his-luck member of the Blackhawk family. Many, many people found jobs within the various Wirtz companies when they needed one.)

The average person of Sioux heritage probably does not give 2 rips about the name one way or the other...

(Add to this the various statements about the "silent majority" and the quotes about how the nickname "isn't a priority"....)

This pretty much captures it. The vast majority of people who now have veto power over your nickname/logo have far greater things to deal with in their everyday lives. The few people who do care about it are the "negative" screamers. Those that realize that there may, just MAY be some positives in having their name represented probably are also the people who are spending time getting schools, fire stations, hospitals, senior centers, etc. for their constituency.

[Dak]

The Hartford Whalers aren't in existence anymore either, but it doesn't prevent Peter Karmanos, owner of the now Carolina Hurricanes from making a buck or two off of the sale of Whaler merchandise. The North Stars don't exist any longer, but, trust me, their trademark has not lapsed. Just log onto www.nhl.com and check out the catalog. Retro is in...and North Stars stuff is everywhere.

"Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most juristictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use"."

Plus the logo would not be the same. All you need is a 30% change........

Use the interlocking ND and remove the outline add a star above the N like on the Old North Star logo, and you have a petty cool start for a new logo that looks like UND tradition but adds the new. Plus some of the old Hockey jerseys had stars on them two.

I'm sorry but we do need a nickmane otherwise North Dakota ....... Bison? People get confused enough. F#*K that.

[Hawkster]

"Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most juristictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use"."

Plus the logo would not be the same. All you need is a 30% change........

Use the interlocking ND and remove the outline add a star above the N like on the Old North Star logo, and you have a petty cool start for a new logo that looks like UND tradition but adds the new. Plus some of the old Hockey jerseys had stars on them two.

I'm sorry but we do need a nickmane otherwise North Dakota ....... Bison? People get confused enough. F#*K that.

Thanks for backing me up. I thought there was a "use it or lose it clause". Amazing what I learned in those poli sci classes.

[MafiaMan]

MafiaMan,

I have to disagree with you on this. For years, UND had a verison of the Chicago Blackhawk logo on the front of its hockey jerseys. There must have been some type of agreement with the NHL franchise to use it. Why couldn't a similar agreement be forged with the Dallas (South) Stars? (sorry I couldn't resist the dig against that franchise)

Disagree all you want...

UND had a version of the Chicago Blackhawks logo on it? Who knew? I attended UND from 1988-1992 and am very aware of the logo used during those days. UND had basically a handshake agreement with the Blackhawks to use the logo. When Bill Wirtz purchased the team in 1992 or 1993, he requested that UND pay a fee to continue using the logo. UND refused, hence the "NORTH DAKOTA" jerseys which appeared almost immediately after President Kendall Baker took office. This was immediately interpreted by fans as Baker trying to erase the Sioux legacy, which is somewhat misguided thinking.

I'm sure an agreement could be reached with the Dallas Stars, however, given the financial state of the NHL right now (did you notice that the Dallas Stars didn't even sell out their arena during last year's All-Star game?), I can guarantee you there would be $$$$ involved, and probably too many for UND to want to borrow the logo.

[MafiaMan]

"Trademarks rights must be maintained through actual lawful use of the trademark. These rights will cease if a mark is not actively used for a period of time, normally 5 years in most juristictions. In the case of a trademark registration, failure to actively use the mark in the lawful course of trade, or to enforce the registration in the event of infringement, may also expose the registration itself to become liable for an application for the removal from the register after a certain period of time on the grounds of "non-use"."

North Stars T-Shirt

Click on the link and enlarge the image. Note the little "TM" after the words "North Stars" and also after the "N*" logo. How much more active do you need?

[Dak]

North Stars T-Shirt

Click on the link and enlarge the image. Note the little "TM" after the words "North Stars" and also after the "N*" logo. How much more active do you need?

Just because they still sell a t-shirt doesn't mean the Trademark is active. Plus any team can be called the North Stars. Both word fall under the "generic" Just like tigers, cowboys, ect.

What the Dallas stars own in the trademark is the "distinctive character". Font, style, logo. THATS IT!

UND could be called Noth Stars and use a logo not trademarked by the Dallas Stars.

But Lets just be called North Dakota...so every one out side of Grand Forks can call us the Bison. I'm sorry we need something to set us apart.

Cavalry is to close to the Cavaliers, Roughriders is taken by Red River.

Fighting Sioux is the best nickname ever. I'm very sad to see it go. Just North Dakota for a year or two but then we need a new nickname.

[Northcountry]

I don't want something lame. The Flickertail comment was tongue in cheek, even though it's historical and unique.

And "Fighting Dakotans" isn't lame? The only "Fighting Dakotans" I can think of are our Congressional delegation who in every campaign refer to "fighting" to keep this or "fighting" to prevent that and "fighting" for North Dakota. I don't think we want to name UND's athletic teams after our Congressional delegation - or do we? But seriously, "Fighting Dakotans" is a very lame attempt at retaining "Fighting Sioux", but without the Sioux. No name other than THE University of North Dakota should even be considered until a logical alternative presents itself in time (however long that may be).

[MafiaMan]

Just because they still sell a t-shirt doesn't mean the Trademark is active. Plus any team can be called the North Stars. Both word fall under the "generic" Just like tigers, cowboys, ect.

What the Dallas stars own in the trademark is the "distinctive character". Font, style, logo. THATS IT!

UND could be called Noth Stars and use a logo not trademarked by the Dallas Stars.

I'm aware that the team could be called the North Stars and not use the trademarked logo. Thanks for the insight, though.

Just because they sell a t-shirt doesn't mean the trademark is active? HUH? Go ahead and drive down to your local screenprinter and tell him you'd like to print off 1,000 copies of North Stars t-shirts and see the reaction you get.

I agree with you on "Fighting Sioux" being the best nickname ever. When UND becomes something else, it'll just be one of a billion schools called the Tigers, Lions, or Bears. Personally, I'm in just the kind of mood today where the team should just be called the Fighting Mohammeds. We're watching people put into prison for naming a teddy bear, but people here are concerned with sports team nicknames. The free world has lots its collective mind.

[redwing77]

Cavalry is to close to the Cavaliers, Roughriders is taken by Red River.

Fighting Sioux is the best nickname ever. I'm very sad to see it go. Just North Dakota for a year or two but then we need a new nickname.

The neat thing about the term "to close to" (other than the first "to" should be "too") is that it isn't.

Cavalry is defined as an army on horseback as well as the modern connotation of an army mounted on vehicles such as helicopters and armored personnel carriers

Cavaliers are gentlemen trained in arms and horsemanship.

So, yes, I can see the possibility of some confusion if you don't know the definitions of the terms, but Cavalry is a group of mounted soldiers (with modern connotations) whereas Cavaliers are individual mounted soldiers (with no modern connotation).

I think calling ourselves the Fighting Cavalry (or just Cavalry) would be a great name. We can go all out by having presentations and ask the local Army National Guard (as well as representatives from the 66th Cavalry Division (Army Reserve - if still around. This Division was dispersed across 4 states including ND) and perhaps even the 1st Cavalry Division), have the ceremony in the Spring once the snow thaws so they can have a Huey helicopter flyby, have the band playing patriotic songs, bring in a few military vehicles for the kids, military color guards, and so on.

[Dak]

I'm aware that the team could be called the North Stars and not use the trademarked logo. Thanks for the insight, though.

Just because they sell a t-shirt doesn't mean the trademark is active? HUH? Go ahead and drive down to your local screenprinter and tell him you'd like to print off 1,000 copies of North Stars t-shirts and see the reaction you get.

I agree with you on "Fighting Sioux" being the best nickname ever. When UND becomes something else, it'll just be one of a billion schools called the Tigers, Lions, or Bears. Personally, I'm in just the kind of mood today where the team should just be called the Fighting Mohammeds. We're watching people put into prison for naming a teddy bear, but people here are concerned with sports team nicknames. The free world has lots its collective mind.

The world has lost its mind.......duh.

The franchise has not been active since 1993. Selling retro t-shirts doesn't mean an active trademark. The mark has to be relevent to a product, market ect. The market has moved and the product is not active. But there is not point to take their logo, 30% change and you can trademark your own.

I agree we should just be called North Dakota for a year or two and move nice and slow to a new logo and nickname. Find out what works. I just like the North Stars.

[petey23]

And "Fighting Dakotans" isn't lame? The only "Fighting Dakotans" I can think of are our Congressional delegation who in every campaign refer to "fighting" to keep this or "fighting" to prevent that and "fighting" for North Dakota. I don't think we want to name UND's athletic teams after our Congressional delegation - or do we? But seriously, "Fighting Dakotans" is a very lame attempt at retaining "Fighting Sioux", but without the Sioux. No name other than THE University of North Dakota should even be considered until a logical alternative presents itself in time (however long that may be).

The funny thing is that if they were in an actual fight, the referee would have stepped in many rounds ago.

No, I don't think we want our School named after our congressional delegation, I don't think The Fighting Whistledicks would be a very popular name.