Protest at Homecoming

[Chewey]

So now that your done pointing your finger, and you know the "REAL issues" of Indian culture, how are YOU going to help ease the "continued cultural problems" of our fellow people? Don't forget about the lack of leadership from white people, your 4 alcoholic uncles, the three cousins you have who dropped out of school because of drugs and teenage pregnancy blah blah blah. What humanity needs is a leader, any leader, who can lead us all in the pursuit of happiness...Start by being a leader at home, and don't teach your children the nonsense you hoarked in your post.

Happy Day!

Nice bit of racism "hoarked" in your post, friend. I suppose if we teach the children to be PC enabling, guilt laden bed-wetters, that might make things better. Give me a break. I worked on one of the reservations helping to re-codify the tribal code and, yes, I'm white. My dad teaches on one and, yes, he's white too. There is barely a hint of tribal leadership when it comes to issues that matter such as those posted above. Much of the problems stem from economic lethargy on the reservations. These problems stem from businesses not wanting to open on the reservations because of the lack of laws pertaining to contracts and secured transactions. The lack of laws pertaining to such things stems from a tribe's desire to not give up any tribal sovereignty. There is no version of the Uniform Commercial Code on many reservations. There is nothing really that pertains to granting parties rights through contract laws on many reservations. The tribes are so afraid of losing any tribal sovereignty that they do not do anything to draw new businesses to the reservations. Add to this the provincial and racist overtones on most reservations, and you have a real witch's brew that serves to prevent any economic growth at all. The PC nut jobs are so creatively lethargic and so intellectually stunted because they pre-occupy themselves with nonsensical issues like nicknames and logos that they could not even begin to think outside of their own collective racist box to address such issues.

[AccountingStu]

Not trying to start a race war or anything but at least the "white people" you refer to are trying to change the things that matter with troubled families. Not trying to push the blame at a university logo and saying that is the reason our youth is mislead.

Great. A race war just broke out in my living room thanks to your post. So, only whites care about families? Forget about the logo - forget that its a neat logo, forget that it looks cool on a coffee mug, forget that it is central to many arguments - the fact is, NO leaders, NO whites, NO Native Americans, NO blacks, no anybody have stepped-in to unite the people. You see a reservation full of a group of people with their own problems, with an invisible fence along the border that will electrocute any whites who offer help or friendship. Do you have a problem with the people of Detroit or Flint, MI? I mean, they lost their jobs, so it's their responsibility to go out and create a new car company, right? Oh wait, we should only feel for those people because they have a bigger impact on our economy and your low-interest financing.

If you took the ACTs you would know about reading comprehension, because I spelled it out clearly that there are no leaders worth anything right now. Period.

Still, happy day!

[AccountingStu]

Since you are obviously leaning to left in your ideology, don't face east today or the strong south wind will blow you completely on our head! There is no pointing of the finger, just wanting the same enthusiasm and zeal from those, and obviously you, who feel the logo and nickname is an issue to tackle those other Native American issues that seem to be irrelevant by those same people. Facts are facts. Leadership is leadership, but as the old "Cowboy" saying goes, "You can only bring a horse to water..." I'm not going to get into a tit for tat. Your opinion is that...just an opinion as is mine, but instead of taking insulting shots at an opinion you don't like, how about providing some facts or insight as to what solutions are being provided for the "continued cultural problems of our fellow people". Your insight would be welcomed...

funny, I asked you the same thing.

[SiouxCrioux1]

Great. A race war just broke out in my living room thanks to your post. So, only whites care about families? Forget about the logo - forget that its a neat logo, forget that it looks cool on a coffee mug, forget that it is central to many arguments - the fact is, NO leaders, NO whites, NO Native Americans, NO blacks, no anybody have stepped-in to unite the people. You see a reservation full of a group of people with their own problems, with an invisible fence along the border that will electrocute any whites who offer help or friendship. Do you have a problem with the people of Detroit or Flint, MI? I mean, they lost their jobs, so it's their responsibility to go out and create a new car company, right? Oh wait, we should only feel for those people because they have a bigger impact on our economy and your low-interest financing.

If you took the ACTs you would know about reading comprehension, because I spelled it out clearly that there are no leaders worth anything right now. Period.

Still, happy day!

I agree with most of what you said but still. I dont like the finger pointing at the "white people". it seems that is the only thing tribal leaders bring up now. And protesters coming to a university football game to protest a silly little logo. Rather than protesting things that matter. I agree there isnt much leadership anywhere nowadays but the tribal leaders and such are going to get nowhere blaming everyone else for their problems.

[AccountingStu]

Nice bit of racism "hoarked" in your post, friend. I suppose if we teach the children to be PC enabling, guilt laden bed-wetters, that might make things better. Give me a break. I worked on one of the reservations helping to re-codify the tribal code and, yes, I'm white. My dad teaches on one and, yes, he's white too. There is barely a hint of tribal leadership when it comes to issues that matter such as those posted above. Much of the problems stem from economic lethargy on the reservations. These problems stem from businesses not wanting to open on the reservations because of the lack of laws pertaining to contracts and secured transactions. The lack of laws pertaining to such things stems from a tribe's desire to not give up any tribal sovereignty. There is no version of the Uniform Commercial Code on many reservations. There is nothing really that pertains to granting parties rights through contract laws on many reservations. The tribes are so afraid of losing any tribal sovereignty that they do not do anything to draw new businesses to the reservations. Add to this the provincial and racist overtones on most reservations, and you have a real witch's brew that serves to prevent any economic growth at all. The PC nut jobs are so creatively lethargic and so intellectually stunted because they pre-occupy themselves with nonsensical issues like nicknames and logos that they could not even begin to think outside of their own collective racist box to address such issues.

They, they, they, They, THEY, they...I guess we should just give up, then? If you can tell, I'm not PC. I have one of the highest thread-lock/post ratio on the board. Somehow, the anti-PCers can write racist nonsense (not you, specifically) but have difficulty digesting the opinion of others with mirror image views. If you don't like PC, then don't expect a PC retort. It goes both ways.

[redwing77]

PCM-

I like your comments and I agree with them. But I also agree with iramurphy in that I believe that the nickname will eventually be changed. I'm not for it. I don't like the way its come about. I don't think the Native Americans have done themselves any favors in what they've done and said to help their cause. They've only created more mistrust, suspicion, and dislike. The NCAA is corrupt, sure, but UND can't change that.

That's why I think it is imperative that we change the nickname on our own terms. Win the lawsuit and then change the nickname right away before the NCAA can go back and follow its own guidelines etc. etc.

I like the idea of approaching the tribes to ask for funding to help renovate the Ralph (remove all the Native American stuff) under the guise of removing those items "respectfully." The statue out front can be rededicated towards the honor and memory of warriors of the past Sioux nations who died for their land, beliefs, and freedom.

Then change the name to the Fighting Cavalry.

[AccountingStu]

I agree with most of what you said but still. I dont like the finger pointing at the "white people". it seems that is the only thing tribal leaders bring up now. And protesters coming to a university football game to protest a silly little logo. Rather than protesting things that matter. I agree there isnt much leadership anywhere nowadays but the tribal leaders and such are going to get nowhere blaming everyone else for their problems.

My friend, I just want to reiterate that i don't think the leadership on the reservation, the capitol building, city council, etc. has done anything for any of us. We need unity, not division. We all can do more. I know I can do more. Let's focus on the quality of life for all of us.

I better stop my opining here, before I lock another thread.

I love everybody, man! Are you getting this air? [inhales deeply]

[Oxbow6]

My friend, I just want to reiterate that i don't think the leadership on the reservation, the capitol building, has done anything for any of uscity council, etc.. We need unity, not division. We all can do more. I know I can do more. Let's focus on the quality of life for all of us.

I better stop my opining here, before I lock another thread.

I love everybody, man! Are you getting this air? [inhales deeply]

That sounds like a cop-out. Politics aside, MOST leaders try to do what they think is best for the "community" as a whole, but we, as a society, have become so indoctorinated in believing that it is always someone elses fault and that someone else will fix my problems. Again, how about getting back to personal accountibility and responsibility and going from there whether your white, black, red or green.

[redwing77]

I agree with most of what you said but still. I dont like the finger pointing at the "white people". it seems that is the only thing tribal leaders bring up now. And protesters coming to a university football game to protest a silly little logo. Rather than protesting things that matter. I agree there isnt much leadership anywhere nowadays but the tribal leaders and such are going to get nowhere blaming everyone else for their problems.

Finger pointing at white people is all they are able to do. It's just like Sharpton and Jackson when it comes to black vs. white relations. They are inable to see the problems of their own race. They only see color.

It is a defense mechanism that has overtaken a significant portion of the vocal members of minorities. They see what is happening to their people, are sickened, disheartened, and depressed by it. I would be too. I'm Jewish and I look at the plight if Israel (and the stupid things Israel has done over time too) and all of the small percentage of Christians out there whose life mission is to convert us and see that there's more of them than there are of us. However, do I blame the Christians for the plight of "my people/" No. We are who we are. I'm Jewish and I don't care what others think. I'm not going to allow myself to be confined to perceptions and stereotype because I'm not what they perceive. I'm not a stereotype. However, if someone were to call a team by a Jewish term like a women's basketball team called the "Yentls" or a football team called the "Fighting Jews" or the "Maccabees" or even the "Marauding Mishegas" I don't think I would pay it any mind whatsoever. It may be Jewish in tone, but it doesn't represent me. Even if opposing fans yell "Jews suck!" at a sporting event or one campus or whatever I won't be offended. They're talking about the team. And, hey, maybe that team isn't very good! How many great Jewish athletes can you name? Sure, there have been a few great ones (Sandy Koufax, Hank Greenberg, Rod Carew experimented with Judaism, Sid Luckman...) but we're not concerned about or sports persona. We're more concerned with survival.

[AccountingStu]

That sounds like a cop-out. Politics aside, MOST leaders try to do what they think is best for the "community" as a whole, but we, as a society, have become so indoctorinated in believing that it is always someone elses fault and that someone else will fix my problems. Again, how about getting back to personal accountibility and responsibility and going from there whether your white, black, red or green.

I was TRYING to leave, dammit.

When you read, is there a little voice that hurls words opposite of what is written? I'm sure it has a lot of good ideas, but when it comes to reading it should not be trusted.

I wrote:

We ALL can do more.

And then you go and write:

Again, how about getting back to personal accountibility and responsibility and going from there whether your white, black, red or green.

And don't get all pissy about my tone or attitude; remember, you're the anti-PC person.

Now, back to unity! Yay!

[Oxbow6]

I was TRYING to leave, dammit.

When you read, is there a little voice that hurls words opposite of what is written? I'm sure it has a lot of good ideas, but when it comes to reading it should not be trusted.

I wrote:

We ALL can do more.

And then you go and write:

Again, how about getting back to personal accountibility and responsibility and going from there whether your white, black, red or green.

And don't get all pissy about my tone or attitude; remember, you're the anti-PC person.

Now, back to unity! Yay!

1) I apologize, you can leave now.

2) Yes, we all can do more, but for some it is easier if someone else does it for them.

3) NO, anti-enabling person

[redwing77]

Question about the term: "Personal accountability."

Does this mean I should feel accountable for the plight of the Native Americans in this state and beyond? Should I feel personally accountable for all the problems in the world? The U.S.? Or perhaps even my own neighborhood?

If so, then I apologize because it's not my problem. I have my own problems to worry about. My own life to lead. I can't be responsible for what other people do with their own lives.

If some guy wishes to rob a bank, that's his life. If someone wishes to point fingers at me because he can't solve his own problems, then let him. I know I"m not responsible for his problems. He is. He can either better himself and overcome or drown in them. His choice, not mine.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

PCM has a good points but if you think it is just Wisconsin and Minnesota you are wrong. They won't look foolish to any fan base but some of ours and after a few years of lost revenue and opportunites, I wonder who would look foolish. According to some of the coaches it is an issue right now. Games against these schools are the ones that can bring in the 6 figure guarantees and are part of the budgeting for the move to D1. It won't be smart to "win the battle and lose the war" and miss opportunites to recruit kids or generate income because we can't get over the Fighting Sioux issue. It will be difficult enough to make the move to D1 without having problems we can avoid. Our opponents are on the field of play, basket ball and volleyball courts or ice arenas not in a court of law, nor at a tribal council meeting.

There are plenty of level headed recruits out there. Most recruits look at what kind of school it is and how their athletics are. Not so much the nickname. For example, the best motorcycle road racer of the last 10 years or so said he would never ride with tobacco sponsorship. But sure enough, Yamaha, while sponsored by a tobacco company, managed to sign him and he ended up winning the world championship there. And there are how many BCS teams out there? I am sure we will be able to find someone to play us every year.

[Chewey]

They, they, they, They, THEY, they...I guess we should just give up, then? If you can tell, I'm not PC. I have one of the highest thread-lock/post ratio on the board. Somehow, the anti-PCers can write racist nonsense (not you, specifically) but have difficulty digesting the opinion of others with mirror image views. If you don't like PC, then don't expect a PC retort. It goes both ways.

The real issues are as set forth above and there are and have been many leaders and ordinary people willing to address reservation issues. The fact is that tribal leaders don't want "whitey" coming to their reservations telling them what they should or might want to do to address the problems. So, they want the help and then they reject it or think that by doing what is suggested they may be giving up autonomy, what little is left, to "whitey." Reservation politics are a collective bitch. Every two years one "leader" and all of the cronies get swept out of office only to be re-elected two years later. If one is not "in" with that particular group of cronies, one is screwed. This makes getting anything done on the res impossible. Tribal politics are 10 times worse than state or federal politics. That "lack of this" or "lack of that" argument is very tired. Dissension on the reservations and the chaos of tribal politics are two of the biggest perpetrators of the status quo.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Question about the term: "Personal accountability."

Does this mean I should feel accountable for the plight of the Native Americans in this state and beyond? Should I feel personally accountable for all the problems in the world? The U.S.? Or perhaps even my own neighborhood?

If so, then I apologize because it's not my problem. I have my own problems to worry about. My own life to lead. I can't be responsible for what other people do with their own lives.

If some guy wishes to rob a bank, that's his life. If someone wishes to point fingers at me because he can't solve his own problems, then let him. I know I"m not responsible for his problems. He is. He can either better himself and overcome or drown in them. His choice, not mine.

That right Redwing77. We are not responsible for the Indian's condition. Indians ARE! It is about personal responsibility. The Irish people don't seem to be having any problems despite Notre Dame's nickname.

[UND92,96]

As expected, it was a pretty small group of protesters at the game today.

[Oxbow6]

As expected, it was a pretty small group of protesters at the game today.

I would estimate 25 people. One sign that caught my attention was "Respect Tribal Government" and another sign was "My People Are Not Logos". To the protestor's credit, they were civil, but for the most part went unnoticed by the Sioux faithful attending the game.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

I guess I like what AccountingStu is saying although I don't believe I have ever agreed with the guy...I can tell you that most Fighting Sioux fans would like to help, but there doesn't seem to be very many open channels to help the native americans with the vocal tribal councils calling everyone who likes the logo racists...Is there some other way of working directly with the tribe without threatening the tribal governments power or there perceived authority. Please understand that I'm not looking to continue the fight, but its a good point to try and bring people together and I hope the University is pursuing this as well as they are the legal case.

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

[SiouxMeNow]

The really sad thing is it's 2007 and the protesters who demand "change" of the Sioux nickname will not (or can not) demand change of the very system that keeps most native americans tied to the reservations. They're trying to swat bees one by one when they should be going after the nest!

[darell1976]

I saw the protest on the news and one of the signs said "People are not logos" what the hell do you consider the Vikings (Augustana, or Minnesota). Or what is the difference between Fighting Sioux and Fighting Irish besides money. Maybe the protesters should protest all people logos of the NCAA and NFL not just the native american ones, also one woman said she didn't like people saying "Kill the Sioux". Um hello they are talking about the team not individuals. So if i say Kill the Patriots (which i do since i am a Dolphins fan) am i un-American? Should i be watched as a known terrorist. Or kill the Eagles am i going to kill our national bird? That woman needs a room at the nut house to think people mean the actual people.

[PCM]

I didn't see anything in today's Herald about the protest. KVLY-TV filed this report.

[HockeyMom]

I didn't even see the protesters....or hear anything about them until 5 minutes ago when I started reading this thread, dang, they must've made a big impact and were highly visable yesterday.

[SiouxMeNow]

I didn't see anything in today's Herald about the protest. KVLY-TV filed this report.

"someone" at these protests ALWAYS says this and it just drives me nuts...

(asking why protesters hate the nickname - and this is paraphrasing.....)

"my child asked me...Mommy, why do they (fans) want to kill the Sioux?"

This it totally a setup designed to elicit sympathy...WHEN is the last time you heard anyone chant "KILL THE SIOUX!" anywhere? anytime? Granted, there are a lot of crude things said at games, especially with heated rivals, but you have to consider the context...IT'S A SPORTING EVENT! How about you take you kid aside and explain that it's not a literal threat - if THAT'S not asking too much...

[SiouxMeNow]

I saw the protest on the news and one of the signs said "People are not logos" what the hell do you consider the Vikings (Augustana, or Minnesota). Or what is the difference between Fighting Sioux and Fighting Irish besides money. Maybe the protesters should protest all people logos of the NCAA and NFL not just the native american ones, also one woman said she didn't like people saying "Kill the Sioux". Um hello they are talking about the team not individuals. So if i say Kill the Patriots (which i do since i am a Dolphins fan) am i un-American? Should i be watched as a known terrorist. Or kill the Eagles am i going to kill our national bird? That woman needs a room at the nut house to think people mean the actual people.

missed your post - you beat me to the punch Darell....sorry

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

"someone" at these protests ALWAYS says this and it just drives me nuts...

(asking why protesters hate the nickname - and this is paraphrasing.....)

"my child asked me...Mommy, why do they (fans) want to kill the Sioux?"

Of course this same child never sees the "I heart the Sioux" t-shirts or bumper stickers or whatever.

And the child never ever seems to wonder why people would want to "kill" the Eagles. Or Dolphins. Or Colts. Or Browns. Or Texans. Or Cowboys. Or Lions. Or Vikings. Or Patriots. Or the

Saints

. Or the

Padres

.

I didn't even see the protesters....or hear anything about them until 5 minutes ago...

And that's probably better. My advice (at this level of maturity) is to ignore them. I'll admit that wouldn't have been my advice ten years ago, but that's what I have to say today. At Illinois, they DEMANDED the right to be in front of the main gates in an effort to maximize their own visibility, and would parade thru campus blocking traffic with their own self-proclaimed "security" personnel. As your school has found out, they're an incredibly small number of malcontents with big mouths and little to say. The less you pay attention to them, the sooner they'll figure out they need to go somewhere else to get the attention they crave. (Sounds like you're dealing with a five year old child, doesn't it?)

For a slightly different perspective, the folks at FSU couldn't guarantee their saftey when they showed up-the best solution was to literally fence them in at their protest sites. I guess FSU fans took great delight in literally rattling their cage on the way to the football game.