St Cloud continues to protest UND nickname

[jimdahl]

I remember from going to games at St Cloud in the past that they always refer to UND as "North Dakota" and never make mention of the name "Sioux".

I have also heard before that SCSU has requested that UND wear jerseys without the Sioux logo while playing there.  Doesn't seem likely.

http://miva.sctimes.com/miva....31+2+16

[ScottM]

Funny they would attack the Sioux name/logo while the feds are "playing proctologist" and lawyers are suing them for systemic anti-Semitism and racism on SCSU's campus.  I suppose they have their own share of faculty/staff with too much time on their hands.

What really annoys me about this campaign of outsiders attacking UND and dragging it through the mud, is that Kupchella and other administrators have said and done nothing.  If they won't protect the school's reputation and image, regardless of their views of the name, perhaps they should step down.

[jimdahl]

As an article in today's GF Herald points out, the timing is odd since the original article refers to resolutions that were passed last March.

Why no protests when they play our football or volleyball teams?  It seems not to be people genuinely concerned, rather people who like to have their names in the news.

Also interesting, I thought, was that the WCHA did take the matter up and voted 9-1 to table it last Spring (guess who was the lone dissenter?)

http://web.northscape.com/content....UND.htm

[The Sicatoka]

SCSU wouldn't be trying to deflect attention from their anti-semitic tendencies on campus now would they?

http://www.startribune.com/st/qview.cgi?te...;slug=CLOU18%20  

[petey23]

Wanted by SCSU:  Effeminate, smarmy nattering liberal 3rd-tier state college president to contrive phony p.c. issue to engratiate self with militant fringe faculty staff.

Qualifications:  Invertebrate

Skills:  None Required

Salary:  Obscene

Education:  Obscure PhD

Talents:  None

Testicles:  Optional

[Marauder]

Maybe they are jealous because their team can't win a national championship?

[Goon]

Here is good article I found in the St Cloud Times. Interesting... Does anyone know if Lil Johnny Hoff is going to show up for the Protest this weekend?

1 November, 2001

Readers' views: Nickname is not important issue

Mike Kennedy, St. Cloud

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks to Sports Editor Dave DeLand for the sensible column in the Oct. 25 Times pointing out the ridiculous stance of St. Cloud State University regarding the University of North Dakota's nickname and logo.

There are enough issues to deal with that affect all the students, including the fact that the cost of attending public and private colleges and universities in Minnesota increased this year faster than the national average.

I found the allegation by the St. Cloud State representative that the team nickname is hate speech to be nonsense.

Perhaps university officials who have appointed themselves as the Speech Police should know that in the 1930s the council of Sioux elders of the Standing Rock Reservation offered the name to the university, in honor of their own fathers, the great Sioux warriors. The council decision was renewed in the 1950s and again in the 1980s.

Many of the native Americans who object to the name aren't even Sioux. They are Ojibwe and Arikara -- historical enemies of the Sioux, as pointed out by David Yeagley of Oklahoma State University, a professor and member of the Comanche Tribe in Lawton, Okla.

Perhaps an institution such as St. Cloud State that prides itself on education ought to do its homework and the Times should reserve its top spot on the front page for real news.

[Goon]

Here is another one. Sounds like everyone pretty much blew off the Protesters. It is a whole bunch to do about nothing...

4 November, 2001

Letter to editor: Mascot fight no place for SCSU

Stu Peterson, Clear Lake

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After reading in the Oct. 22 Times the article about the controversy over the University of North Dakota's nickname, I felt it necessary to state my opinion.

St. Cloud State University President Roy Saigo was hired to run the university. He and the others involved at St. Cloud State must have extra time on their hands to be sticking their noses in other colleges' business.

If he worked for me, I would fire him. Could it be the interest in this issue is because of funding from Grand Casino?

Since this is a democracy, let's have a vote. I cast mine for North Dakota to do whatever it wants. Maybe Saigo and Sudie Hoffmann can next go after the "Fighting Irish."

Ridiculous!

[dagies]

A buddy of mine and his brother were at the game wearing Sioux jerseys.  They said a couple of St. Cloud fans came to them during the game and apologized to them for the protestors and showed their support for UND.  I thought  that was pretty classy.

[ScottM]

Most SCSU fans on the boards, and those I know personally, seem to be pretty embarrassed by their school's conduct in this matter.  Presonally, I'm more embarrassed that President Kupcake hasn't done squat to defend UND's reputation in the media and elsewhere.  

When is Kupcake going to to admit that he supports removing the name and get it over with?  Why not resign thereafter?

[Goon]

Scott,

Chuckie is not going to do any of that, this is the same dummy that was going to change the UND name so I can't see him doing this.

I think maybe it is time for UND to some how push Chuck out and find a president that understands UND. Probably a UND Alumni. President Kendall Baker was heads and toes about this guy. Chuck doesn't get it.

I have read that if Chuck had changed the name some very powerful people UND Alumni would have removed Chuck very quickly.  

What does everyone think?

[dagies]

I hesitate to say this because I am only going from memory, but I thought I had read a comment from Kupchella within the last couple months where he actually expressed a point of view that inferred (to me) that he was not as sympathetic to the name change cause as I had originally thought.

I forget what he said and I'm not sure even where/if I could find it at this time, but I wish I could.

I think it had to do with something about how the name change group had not convinced him that using the nickname was causing negative reaction to the Sioux community, and that he thought it would be much better for understanding to grow between both sides of the issue and learn to work together to make it a positive.

However, don't quote me on that.  Maybe someone else will remember??

[ScottM]

Dagies, while I would love to see Kupcake come out strongly in favor of retaining the name, his silence during the recent media drubbings leaves me no confidence in him.  

Whether Kupcake supports the name or not, if he had any balls, he would not allow UND to be dragged through the mud by a bunch of opportunistic "journalists" who think they have a story. In my view, Kupcake's silence and lack of defense is nothing more than tacit support for the media smears we have witnessed recently.

If Kupcake cannot or will not defend UND, he should resign or gut himself in front of Twamley.  No, I'm not joking.

[dagies]

I can't really argue against you Scott.  You make a good point.  I wish we would hear someone in that level of authority painting the side of the picture for everyone.

[dagies]

This is interesting.   I saw a picture in one of the recent articles about this issue where a protestor is holding a sign saying something like "What if Priests were used as mascots".

I'm Roman Catholic, and faithful.  I have to think about this for a while but right off the bat I'm not sure that would be a problem for me, at least it would depend on how it is used, etc.

However, aren't their teams with the nicknames of the Friars, and what about the San Diego Padres?

[ScottM]

I'm still chuckling over PETA's letters to the Green Bay Packers suggesting that the name encourages cruelty to cattle in slaughterhouses.  

I wonder when they'll turn their attention to Minnesota and Wisco, especially given UND students' throwing of various carcasses on the ice.  

Where does this madness end?

[jimdahl]

Well, SCSU has backed off the lunacy a little bit.  The student government voted to rescind its rule that newspapers using the Fighting Sioux nickname would face disciplinary action.

Technically the paper is university owned, and therefore doesn't enjoy freedom of the press protection against university censorship (the university can rescind their student organization status).  However, telling newspapers what they can and cannot print has to cause much internal conflict among the PC crowd.

http://www.universitychronicle.com/main.cf....=144553

[ScottM]

Looks like SCSU's PC president just can't get enough of this issue.

http://www.startribune.com/stories/513/1025080.html

[dagies]

I was up in the Forks this weekend for the AA series and stopped in on campus.

[Goon]

Dagies,

One thing about Hoff is that he doesn't even check the facts he just writes stuff that fits his agenda, he has an axe to grind against Englestad, a lot of the stuff he writes is just inflated b.s..

For those that don't know who Hoff is he is a Kook, he ran for city council and soon after he took office got voted out of office for being a loose cannon. He would start spouting off in city council meetings about wages and was disruptive to the city council meetings. The guy is a absolute wack job/nut case... After he was recalled he moved to Gilby, and has been stiring up trouble there too. Johnny will go into a cafe in one of the small towns and start arguing politics with the locals folks, I can imagine that doesn't go over well with the older Scandinavians.

[jimdahl]

SCSU's protest is now the lead story at ncaa.org.  The article itself is at:

http://www.ncaa.org/news/2002/20020121/active/3902n24.html

The article indicates that the NCAA plans to release some sort of report/recommendation in October on the issue of Native American mascots.

[Goon]

Personally I think the SCCC president is a Bafoon, a president a  second rate University with a horrible track record of its own on racial issues.  

Second this clown should worry about the lawsuit on his own campus now. Who the #### does this guy think he is? Personally I very much doubt the NCAA is going to come out and say ok college and universities that use Indian Monikers you now have to change your logos, no really.

I mean what are they going to say ok big time Universities which includes the likes of The University of Illinois (ILLINI), Florida State University (SEMINOLES), San Degio State University (AZTECS) , Utah State (UETS), CMU (CHIPPIWAS) and lastly UND (FIGHTING SIOUX). What grounds do they have?

This is just PC hand wringing and idiocy...

[YaneA]

Mr. Saigo is forgetting what many a smug moralist also forgets: that it's much easier to claim the moral high

ground than it is to hold it.  He's like a politician beating the drum for family values only to have skeletons come

tumbling out of his own  closet.  Not naming names, but you know who you are!

[Goon]

Mr. Saigo is forgetting what many a smug moralist also forgets: that it's much easier to claim the moral high

ground than it is to hold it.

[YaneA]

Let's not leave out the moralists from the other side of the aisle either.