My opinion is changing

[Flatland]

in the opposite direction.

I was bored at work today so I starting readng articles put out by different name change groups (most of it tied to SCSU). Their articles only pushed my stand on the issue further away from their viewpoint.

One thing that is brought up is how they say that nobody would name a team the Whites or the Negros. However, what if major league baseball decided to bring in a team that called themselves the Negros which is named after the athelets from the Negro League? Of course, uniformed people would be shocked at the name. Actually, a better example would be to think about what if this team has been in the major leagues for 70 years now. (The Negro league existed into the 50's) What would have happened? Based on the history of the Negro league, I would think that it would be severly offensive to change the name from Negros to something else. (I have a feeling someone is going to flame me for this.)

Maybe there should be a baseball team named the Hispanics. There isn't much difference between this and a hockey team called the Canadiens.

The only reason nobody picks the whites as a team name is because it is too generic. A team called the whites leaves me with no feeling, but if you say your team is the Vikings, Scots, Irish, etc, etc... only then can I link a feeling with the name. Even the term Dakotan is now too generic. Who would I think of? The native american or a farmer? We always link names back to ethnicity so we understand why a university would choose the name.

Anyways, call me a racist, I don't care. I don't see how anyone in these arguments can avoid that label regardless of what side you are on. I'm just tossing some thoughts around.

[undsportsfan]

in the opposite direction.

I was bored at work today so I starting readng articles put out by different name change groups (most of it tied to SCSU). Their articles only pushed my stand on the issue further away from their viewpoint.

One thing that is brought up is how they say that nobody would name a team the Whites or the Negros. However, what if major league baseball decided to bring in a team that called themselves the Negros which is named after the athelets from the Negro League? Of course, uniformed people would be shocked at the name. Actually, a better example would be to think about what if this team has been in the major leagues for 70 years now. (The Negro league existed into the 50's) What would have happened? Based on the history of the Negro league, I would think that it would be severly offensive to change the name from Negros to something else. (I have a feeling someone is going to flame me for this.)

Maybe there should be a baseball team named the Hispanics. There isn't much difference between this and a hockey team called the Canadiens.

The only reason nobody picks the whites as a team name is because it is too generic. A team called the whites leaves me with no feeling, but if you say your team is the Vikings, Scots, Irish, etc, etc... only then can I link a feeling with the name. Even the term Dakotan is now too generic. Who would I think of? The native american or a farmer? We always link names back to ethnicity so we understand why a university would choose the name.

Anyways, call me a racist, I don't care. I don't see how anyone in these arguments can avoid that label regardless of what side you are on. I'm just tossing some thoughts around.

This is probably one of many arguements that made me decide its time to just retire the nickname. Seriously, I would never like to see something like the Fighting Caucasions, Fighting Whites, Fighting Germans, Fighting Catholics, etc... I guess that's why I just don't like seeing any type of human being used as a nickname/mascot for sports. Again, I know the mentality and words we use at sporting events, being a former athlete, and now a fan... I know what we say and do.

Someone recently wanted to argue Vikings... I'm not too educated in the department of Vikings, it wasn't my ancestry, but isn't that more of an occupation than an actual race? None the less I don't agree with it [Humans as sports Mascots/nicknames].

Also, a few years ago, an intramural team at UND tried naming themselves the Fighting Caucasions, and were told they weren't allowed to use that. The team said, well they are caucasions, why can't they use it? (I knew the fraternity brothers that were all involved) They said it would instigate too much controversy and unneccessary trouble. So does the Fighting Sioux nickname. But it brings in money I suppose, so they keep it.

I remember several years ago, an artist came to UND, setting up his display at the Memorial Union, with the Atlanta Brave mascot and changed the description to fit names like the Fighting Catholics, Fighting Germans, etc... I remember sitting there in the lobby as people left in disgust and offended. So how is that different than the use of Native Americans? And I don't think the Dakota people would like to hear that they are now generic. Or their name is. I can understand what you are getting at... but maybe that is more of a reason why people are just tired of this. The descriptive word Generic seems to fall into that dehumanizing category...

This whole arguement is so tiring. And again, it will never cease to exist until the name is retired.

[Goon]

This is probably one of many arguements that made me decide its time to just retire the nickname. Seriously, I would never like to see something like the Fighting Caucasions, Fighting Whites, Fighting Germans, Fighting Catholics, etc...

I am going down to Central Iowa to protest the Dutchmen. I am of Dutch decent and I am offended by the central college Dutchmen.

[The Sicatoka]

Those evil, rotten, no-good, dirty University of Idaho Vandals pickin' on Germans.

And oh the humanity in South Bend, IN, (see: Fighting Irish).

[yekcoh]

This whole arguement is so tiring. And again, it will never cease to exist until the name is retired.

But do you really believe that retiring the logo and name will make all of your problems cease to exist? We have learned from Dartmouth this week that it has really done nothing in the last 34-36 years to improve their problems. Maybe it would be best to seek the blessings and ask for help from the Sioux tribes in honoring the Sioux name and logo in the most fitting way.

[Sioux-cia]

Retiring the Fighting Sioux name and logo will occur if and when the University of North Dakota decides it is time to do so. It will not be retired because a minority of the minority demand it be retired. It will not be retired because a PC group has determined the Fighting Sioux name and logo are hostile and abusive with not one shred of evidence that it is. The only hostility and abuse comes from the Name Change group as witnessed by GrahamKracker's (yes, undsportsfan, I am referring to Gary LaPointe) words and actions. No one speaks to him in the same hostile and abusive way he speaks to those who disagree with him. To do so would have labled that person a racist. But because Gary aka GrahamKracker is a Native American, he can't be a racist.

[Brasco]

But do you really believe that retiring the logo and name will make all of your problems cease to exist? We have learned from Dartmouth this week that it has really done nothing in the last 34-36 years to improve their problems. Maybe it would be best to seek the blessings and ask for help from the Sioux tribes in honoring the Sioux name and logo in the most fitting way.

The whole Sioux name issue is getting old. I personally am in favor of the name. I feel it is used respectively and is in itself a logo designed with thought and good representation of the university and Sioux virtues. On the other hand, I feel it is begining to discredit the university. There are few days that something new is not written about changing the name and the people often encouraging these articles are graduates or faculty still closely associated with the university. It often makes me wonder how many opportunities the Sioux name has afforded them in relation to their university lives. I believe that few universities support specific groups as much as UND has supported American Indian education on campus. There are specific professional programs that provide additional support, there are large numbers of scholarships, there are specific degrees and of course a beautiful building. I believe that many of these programs are at least partially derived from UND's use of the Sioux name along with the American Indian population in the state. I hope that those opposed to the name have also considered that some of the positive opportunities may never have been so widely supported if not for the awareness the Sioux name created on campus.

If the name begins to take away from the university by dragging it through the mud one one-sided article at a time it may be time to separate the name from the university. I love the Sioux name but I love the university and it's athletics more. If it is dropped, I for one do not want to hear about all of the backhanded hostility from the same people currently claiming how hostile the campus is currently.

[Riverman]

I for one do not want to hear about all of the backhanded hostility from the same people currently claiming how hostile the campus is currently.

Seems like that they are the same five all the time.

I do wonder what I should tell my fellow co-workers that are of Lakota heritage how

they should feel when they wear their Fighting Sioux clothing to work.

Maybe I should ask Doreen Yellow Bird she seems to know alot about everything nothing.

And yes, Doreen is one of the Five.

[Riverman]

I'm not too educated in the department of Vikings, it wasn't my ancestry, but isn't that more of an occupation than an actual race? None the less I don't agree with it [Humans as sports Mascots/nicknames].

I am sure if you asked people would and could help you. All one has to do is ask.

Many Vikings slaughtered "MY" people. Enslaved "My" people. Burned "MY" villages!

But there is one thing I learned from my Celtic heritage the STRONG DO survive!

Like I stated all you have to do undsportsfan is ask people. Race is not so

far removed as one might think.

On a lighter note hey there's always Google.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

The whole Sioux name issue is getting old. I personally am in favor of the name. I feel it is used respectively and is in itself a logo designed with thought and good representation of the university and Sioux virtues. On the other hand, I feel it is begining to discredit the university. There are few days that something new is not written about changing the name and the people often encouraging these articles are graduates or faculty still closely associated with the university. It often makes me wonder how many opportunities the Sioux name has afforded them in relation to their university lives. I believe that few universities support specific groups as much as UND has supported American Indian education on campus. There are specific professional programs that provide additional support, there are large numbers of scholarships, there are specific degrees and of course a beautiful building. I believe that many of these programs are at least partially derived from UND's use of the Sioux name along with the American Indian population in the state. I hope that those opposed to the name have also considered that some of the positive opportunities may never have been so widely supported if not for the awareness the Sioux name created on campus.

If the name begins to take away from the university by dragging it through the mud one one-sided article at a time it may be time to separate the name from the university. I love the Sioux name but I love the university and it's athletics more. If it is dropped, I for one do not want to hear about all of the backhanded hostility from the same people currently claiming how hostile the campus is currently.

Brasco,

Get a backbone! Christ...You are already giving up and we are in the homeward stretch of winning the legal case...Get your helmet on soldier and start giving what you are getting!

BOBIWABUCHIFAN

PS Sorry if it sounds mean, but your attitude is the same shiat I get from all those weenies crying about being in Iraq longer than WWII...The best things in life are never easy to attain!

[Goon]

Retiring the Fighting Sioux name and logo will occur if and when the University of North Dakota decides it is time to do so. It will not be retired because a minority of the minority demand it be retired. It will not be retired because a PC group has determined the Fighting Sioux name and logo are hostile and abusive with not one shred of evidence that it is. The only hostility and abuse comes from the Name Change group as witnessed by GrahamKracker's (yes, undsportsfan, I am referring to Gary LaPointe) words and actions. No one speaks to him in the same hostile and abusive way he speaks to those who disagree with him. To do so would have labled that person a racist. But because Gary aka GrahamKracker is a Native American, he can't be a racist.

Right on Sioux-cia and lets not forget the Native students that are for the name or don't care and are badgered for four years because they are not offended. If that isn't hositle and abusive I don't know what is?

[Sioux-cia]

Right on Sioux-cia and lets not forget the Native students that are for the name or don't care and are badgered for four years because they are not offended. If that isn't hositle and abusive I don't know what is?

Since I don't have cable, dish, satellite, etc. and my internet is working fine now (fingers crossed), I've spent lot's of time on line. I came across a MySpace account (*GK, cough, GP, cough*) and some one posted a message to him. It referred to five Native American UND students who went up to Wayne Stenjhm and thanked him for the work he was doing re. the NC$$ lawsuit. This person called them a disgrace to their race, one of them had the initials CP, and said Wayne used their comments in court later that afternoon. I'm sure who ever CP is that his/her life is made miserable by the the name change group.

[Goon]

I came across a MySpace account (*GK, cough, GP, cough*) and some one posted a message to him. It referred to five Native American UND students who went up to Wayne Stenjhm and thanked him for the work he was doing re. the NC$$ lawsuit.

How come thats not a news story in the GF Herald? Second do you have the address so we can see that one?

[yekcoh]

I came across a MySpace account (*GK, cough, GP, cough*) and some one posted a message to him. It referred to five Native American UND students who went up to Wayne Stenjhm and thanked him for the work he was doing re. the NC$$ lawsuit. This person called them a disgrace to their race, one of them had the initials CP, and said Wayne used their comments in court later that afternoon. I'm sure who ever CP is that his/her life is made miserable by the the name change group.

Could it be Christopher Peltier, former president of the UNDIA, who resigned due to the criticism of those 5 vocal anti-Sioux name people who are good at getting their faces in the media all the time? Just why are the Indians who are for the name at UND always ignored? I didn't know that CP was for the name until he quit.

[Goon]

Could it be Christopher Peltier, former president of the UNDIA, who resigned due to the criticism of those 5 vocal anti-Sioux name people who are good at getting their faces in the media all the time? Just why are the Indians who are for the name at UND always ignored? I didn't know that CP was for the name until he quit.

I will tell you why because that view is counter to what they believe in. News people have an agenda too.

Most of the time it slants to the left or towards the anti-name croud.

[ScottM]

Just why are the Indians who are for the name at UND always ignored?

Because their views, which are their own and which appear to go against the whines of the bedwetters, are seen as "uneducated", "racist", etc. Russell Means referred to them as "idiots", well when he wasn't beating his wife on a Navajo reservation. gk referred to them as "hang around the fort Indians". If they were black, I'm sure their so-called leaders would refer to them as "Oreos" or "Uncle Toms". Apparently, diversity of thought really doesn't mean much to some people.

[Sioux-cia]

How come thats not a news story in the GF Herald? Second do you have the address so we can see that one?

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendID=29754418

Sorry I was mistaken. It was three NA's not five. I'm old and my memory is failing me....

[ScottM]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...iendID=29754418

Sorry I was mistaken. It was three NA's not five. I'm old and my memory is failing me....

Meh. You're not old unless you have a sudden urge to yell at the neighborhood kids "Get off my damn lawn!" ... Almost did that myself.

[Sioux-cia]

Don't know where to post this so will do it here.

Just before I came 'home' for lunch, one of the ER aides, a Navajo lady about 50, was teasing the ER nurse, a Caucasion lady about 40. I came in when they were laughing, the Navajo aide, turned to me and said, 'She's married to a Skin.' I said, 'HUH!' I knew what she meant, I was just surprised. She said, 'She's married to an Apache. You know, we say Skin like black people say the other word.' I just nodded.

[MafiaMan]

You know, this is what bugs me about society today. We jump down the throats of Mel Gibson as an anti-Semite, we want to lynch Kramer ASAP (he's an idiot anyways and I'm not defending his N-word tirade at all), but last night, I watched as an African-American activist on Hannity and Colmes left the show with a parting shot at Sean Hannity calling him a "rich white boy." If Sean Hannity had called the guest a "poor black boy," he'd have been fired about 15 minutes after the show ended. It's a giant double-standard and it's getting old.

[Sioux-cia]

Being of Mexican descent, I would never call another person of Mexican descent, a 'Spic or Greaser or Beaner, Wetback, etc.' I personally have never heard another Mexican or person of Mexican descent call another any of those names in jest either.

[undsportsfan]

I'm not trying to play stupid... but who are these 5 people? ...that's a real question...

as far as myspace goes... how can you 'fall' upon a person's website on there? there's far too many people on myspace so you had to be looking for them. and Mr. Lapointe hasn't been talking about this nickname debate, he's busy taking care of his family... I have not read any responses on his page about the nickname. But then again, maybe he's doing it in private, but it's not publicly posted on his comments, or my comments, or any one elses i know.

yes there are some who are against the nickname that are racist. I don't agree with them. But there are plenty of others that are not racist and are against the nickname.

and i can't believe we're resorting to Mel Gibson and 'Kramer'...

[Sioux-cia]

as far as myspace goes... how can you 'fall' upon a person's website on there?

Yep, you post on line, it will be read. You want to be 'private' don't have a MySpace site. I don't.

Not knowing who the person is that posted that on Gary LaPointe's MySpace site, I can't answer your question as to who the Native Americans who spoke to Wayne are. Why don't you ask Gary next time you speak to him?

[yekcoh]

as far as myspace goes... how can you 'fall' upon a person's website on there?

People usually do a search for people who live close to them (you choose a city and then how many miles from there that you want your results from). That is how I found many of my friends on myspace.

[dagies]

Being of Mexican descent, I would never call another person of Mexican descent, a 'Spic or Greaser or Beaner, Wetback, etc.' I personally have never heard another Mexican or person of Mexican descent call another any of those names in jest either.

You've never watched Carlos Mencia on Comedy Central, then.