North Dakota's plans for adding scholarships

[bincitysioux]

Good article from todays GF Herald that talks about UND's plans for adding schollies. Good news for the football team, they plan on adding 21 right out of the gate, so that they can average 57 for the next two years and cash in on a DI-A payday game. 14 more for women's sports from the start. Men's basketball the next priority.

TRANSITION TO DIVISION I ATHLETICS: A battle of the sexes

UND athletic director Tom Buning and senior woman administrator Betty Ralston confirmed that the school plans to offer 21 additional football scholarships during the first year, bringing the total to 57. As a Division II team, UND has 36 scholarships this year.

By adding 21 football scholarships in the fall of 2008, UND also will need to add at least 14 scholarships on the women's side to try to preserve its approximately 60-40 ratio of male vs. female scholarships. Adding scholarships on both sides is costly, but an investment, Ralston said.

One of the ironies of the Title IX guidelines and the move to Division I is that men's sports, outside of football, will be the ones to suffer the most. Because of the expense of adding football scholarships and women's scholarships, there will not be much, if any, funding during the first few years to add more men's scholarships, outside of perhaps a few men's basketball scholarships.

[MplsBison]

You guys don't really care about bball anyway.

[bincitysioux]

You guys don't really care about bball anyway.

I've never really understood the status quo/bullet point philosophy of Bison Fans thinking that UND doesn't care about basketball. Historically UND men's basketball has had far more success than any other collegiate program in the state. Our women have won three national championships. Up until the last few years (the men's program has been going downhill in recent years, hopefully that will start to turn around this year) UND basketball has traditionally drawn more fans than any other collegiate program in the state, while not even playing in the largest metro area in ND. UND has had more NBA draft-picks than any other collegiate program in the state, and former UND coaches have gone on to become head coaches in the NBA. And the UND basketball teams now play in the nicest facilities that any collegiate program in ND can offer.

All that, and we don't really care about basketball?

[southpaw]

but how will they pay for it all?

oh the humanity.... adding things when they don't have enough money!!!

[MplsBison]

All that, and we don't really care about basketball?

If you did, the bball teams would have DI budgets.

[Smoggy]

If you did, the bball teams would have DI budgets.

Why would they when they aren't DI yet?

[bincitysioux]

If you did, the bball teams would have DI budgets.

NDSU Total Basketball Expenditures: $1,184,705

NDSU Total Basketball Revenues: $744,602

-----------------------------------------------------------

UND Total Basketball Expenditures: $1,337,081

UND Total Basketball Revenues: $1,230,619

Office of Postsecondary Education

[MplsBison]

I think the point is that UND's basketball budgets are going to be lower than the Mid Con average (including NDSU, which will likely be near the top). Hockey and football will suck up most of the money.

[bincitysioux]

I think the point is that UND's basketball budgets are going to be lower than the Mid Con average (including NDSU, which will likely be near the top). Hockey and football will suck up most of the money.

What? Then football will suck up most of the money at NDSU. NDSU has a smaller basketball budget than Division II UND, but will be near the top of the Mid-Con while UND will be below the average Mid-Con school?

[aff]

NDSU Total Basketball Expenditures: $1,184,705

NDSU Total Basketball Revenues: $744,602

-----------------------------------------------------------

UND Total Basketball Expenditures: $1,337,081

UND Total Basketball Revenues: $1,230,619

Office of Postsecondary Education

Not allocated Expenses:

UND: $1,340,124

NDSU: $2,201,594

I'm sorry, I'm just very tired of seeing that site dragged out over and over again, and its numbers taken as gospel. Those not allocated numbers above are approximately 30% of the budget? How can you possibly talk about the budgets of those schools specific programs, when you don't know where that much of their money is even going to? Its stupid to makes comparisons based on information that doesn't even factor in a over a quarter of the total budget.

[legend334]

Well...by adding 21 schollies right away...maybe UND can have someone on a full scholarship....last time I checked...36 is the max for D2...and UND has that...so no other school is more funded...not sure why there was crying about not having a player on a full scholarship....surely one of those recruits UND got from Minnesota was given a full ride...since UND took them from the U of M...gophers not UMC...as stated by the Assoc Head Coach!!!

[The Sicatoka]

From the link:

The third method of compliance is referred to as "interests and abilities," essentially meeting the interests and abilities of the under-represented gender. NDSU uses this method, athletic director Gene Taylor said.

From NDSU's Carr Report:

Title IX

NDSU has been very thorough in assessing its compliance with three basic parts of Title IX: Participation Opportunities (sports sponsored for men and women student-athletes), Athletic Scholarships and Athletic Program Components. However, it is prudent for NDSU to review its current compliance position as well as to determine any changes required by a move to I-AA.

- Although NDSU is attempting to closeout its Action Agreement with OCR by using unmet interests and abilities under the third test, the Consultants recommend NDSU contemplate using the first test (proportionality).

- Regardless of its decision on reclassification to I-AA, NDSU should implement the Consultants recommendations in support of its Title IX efforts.

UND is consciously and actively looking to meet the "proportionality" aspect of Title IX rather than an aspect (interests and abilities) that consultants have recommended to other folks to step away from.

[IowaBison]

different strokes for different folks.

I don't know why UND would take the harder route, which proportionality will likely be.

[Bigdog42]

different strokes for different folks.

I don't know why UND would take the harder route, which proportionality will likely be.

Interesting to see again there are more NDSU people posting in this topic than UND. Don't you have anything better to besides bashing people here.

[IowaBison]

Interesting to see again there are more NDSU people posting in this topic than UND. Don't you have anything better to besides bashing people here.

I don't see how that's bashing, I'm wondering.

It seems like proportionality could cost UND $100,000s each year?

[biff]

The harder route is the better route, although it will be interesting to see how it turns out in a few years. It's good to set the standard high. It also would be interesting to know if NDSU had the same plan when they started.

[IowaBison]

They did.

I think they followed Carr's guidelines until they realized the difference in cost.

The big advantage of the proportionality method is that it is quite defensible.

You point to your enrollment, you point to your scholarships, concerned party goes away.

With interests and abilities. You point to survey, concerned party critiques the survey and results(too old, flawed methodology, etc.), concerned party files lawsuit.

[nodakvindy]

That's a great point about proportionality. I can't recall a case when anyone has been successful with either of the other prongs in court, despite their existance. I was shocked that NDSU was trying to pull that off as their means of Title IX compliance. Although it certainly explains how they were able to move football up so quickly. I would be interested to see if volleyball got any extra schollies. If not, with the problems that program experienced last year, another bad year could open the door to a lawsuit, legit or not.

[89rabbit]

They did.

I think they followed Carr's guidelines until they realized the difference in cost.

The big advantage of the proportionality method is that it is quite defensible.

You point to your enrollment, you point to your scholarships, concerned party goes away.

With interests and abilities. You point to survey, concerned party critiques the survey and results(too old, flawed methodology, etc.), concerned party files lawsuit.

I agree 100%. That is why I am glad that SDSU is using proportionality. It means it has and will take us longer to reach "fully funded" status for football, but it also means no law suit, like the one that USD had filed against them (they lost by the way).

[bincitysioux]

According to Jeff Kolpack:

Not sure why Betty Ralston is not in favor of NDSU's method of Title IX compliance. Dale Lennon, if you have any pull at UND, take note. It's going to cost more scholarship dollars by taking the equity dollar route rather than the "interest and abilities" stipulation. Translated, that means getting the football scholarships closer to the I-AA maximum of 63 will probably take longer -- i.e. SDSU and its giddy-up equestrian team. If NDSU's Title IX prong is good enough for the NCAA, why wouldn't it not be good enough for UND?

Free advice for Dale

My favorite part of this is how he compares UND's Title IX situation to SDSU's. He thinks because we both use the "equity dollar" route, that UND will be as slow to add schollies as SDSU has been. Apparently he is unaware that the South Dakota Board of Regents requires South Dakota universities to meet all three of the criteria for Title IX compliance, as opposed to the one out of three methods as mandated by Federal Law.

He also apparently missed the other article in the Herald that specifically said that UND will offer 57 football scholarships in 2008.

[nodakvindy]

Kolpack apparently isn't aware that the proportionality prong is the only one that is airtight in court. And that's a much bigger problem with the NCAA. People really seem to have difficulty grasping that Title IX isn't some NCAA concoction, it is federal law. On the skills and abilities front, once you aren't accomodating an expressed interest, you are no longer in compliance. That's a huge risk to take.

[tony]

In the long term, NDSU has to satisfy Title IX by the proportionality clause - and in the same article, NDSU stated it plans on doing exactly that by being at 59-41 by 2008. Like nodakvindy stated - proportionality is the only proven defense to a Title IX lawsuit - nobody has won a suit by any other route.

In the short term, NDSU is in a unique situation - they still don't know what sports they may need to add to get into a conference, they have an equestrian program waiting in the wings, they are in the midst of a transition, and the plan they have in place is probably almost identical to what a successful Title IX lawsuit would mandate (er, on second thought, NDSU would probably have to accelerate the process by one year).

As for the morality of it all, let's put it in perspective: UND had to cut wrestling and add women's hockey to get compliant on proportionality. I think it's pretty safe to say that for the 10-20 years before that, UND was not Title IX compliant on the proportionality test. It would have been better form for UND folks to compare the current situation at UND to the old situation at UND, but I guess UND folks can't pass up an opportunity to compare themselves favorably to NDSU - and I gotta say, that really rubs NDSU stakeholders the wrong way.

Anyway, it's a wee bit early for UND athletic department to be congratulating themselves on their fine Title IX work when they haven't accomplished any of it yet. It's a nice plan, but it will take a lot of money. For example, NDSU's budget will be at or over $10 million by 2008. That's a quite a bit more than the $2 million increase that UND is budgeting for.

[The Sicatoka]

As for the morality of it all, let's put it in perspective: UND had to cut wrestling and add women's hockey to get compliant on proportionality.

Yes, they, UND, took action to comply with Federal law via proportionality. It appears SDSU has done the same.

Other schools have plans to get compliant down the road after their situations become more clear. I'm glad those others have a plan; but, I'm more glad UND has taken the difficult actions and is compliant already because all it takes is one person to file a Title IX based suit to cause a lot of best laid plans to be run awry.

[DamStrait]

...but I guess UND folks can't pass up an opportunity to compare themselves favorably to NDSU - and I gotta say, that really rubs NDSU stakeholders the wrong way.

The third method of compliance is referred to as "interests and abilities," essentially meeting the interests and abilities of the under-represented gender. NDSU uses this method, athletic director Gene Taylor said.

Is this the offending portion of that article from your point of view? If so, wow. That is really bad case of oversensitivity you have there. You realize too, of course, that this was an article in the GF Herald and not a UND press release, right? You realize too that they were quoting YOUR AD, right?

Maybe I'm missing something (it has, after all, been recently confirmed by one of your co-

[tony]

....

Is this the offending portion of that article from your point of view? If so, wow. That is really bad case of oversensitivity you have there. You realize too, of course, that this was an article in the GF Herald and not a UND press release, right? You realize too that they were quoting YOUR AD, right?

Maybe I'm missing something (it has, after all, been recently confirmed by one of your co-