The Sicatoka Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Along with having an administration that was proactive and positive rather than just reacting, there's strength in numbers. Dang. I knew we should have had the "Pride of the North" Band and the cheer team at the press conference. NDSU tried getting the support of the NCC and ended up with only SDSU. They also had conversations and advisors with UNC and UC Davis going through the transition. I'm sure UND has done none of that in the mean time. Had UND leaders had the vision at the time to see what was going to happen (as they have now) they'd have gone at the same time. Instead they're going it alone and after debating for the last 3 years and hoping South Dakota will come along too. You make an assumption in there. Let me clear it up: Right time for NDSU != Right time for UND As far as the not following the consultant's recommendation argument, haven't you guys beat that one enough? Do you still think a far away DI conference is going to want to add a DII school in North Dakota? The consultant was wrong. I think Mr. Buning would agree. All the hay isn't in the barn (see, I'm bilingual, NDSU and UND) on that subject yet. Let's chat in a couple years. Quote
PartTime Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Well, so much for sending my reply with the quote.........oh well. I have heard and read a lot from the people of NDSU/Fargo as to it being the right time for UND now to go Dl when it wasn't the right time 3 years ago when NDSU & SDSU went. My personal opinion about that (I'll probably get an earfull from this comment) I wanted UND to go Dl 3 years ago. I felt it was the right time for UND to move up. With the exception of the U of Minn, UND is just as big or bigger than other regional Dl schools, NDSU, SDSU, U of Wyoming, U of Montana, Montana St, Northern Iowa, Northern Colorado. Facilities, they have the Alerus Center for football (13,500), the Ralph for hockey (11,400) and for bigger basketball games (13,000+). They currently have two Dl sports programs now in Men's and Women's hockey, I felt they were ready for a move up. UND's athletic director at the time Roger Thomas stated that at this time, UND Has no intentions of going Dl. It wasn't long after that, that it was announced that Roger Thomas was a finalist for the new NCC commisioners position, well, then it made sense, why would he push for UND to go Dl when he was about to become the new NCC commsisioner? he wouldn't, he would want UND to stay in the NCC......................well, I feel his personal gain for keeping UND in the NCC for an aditional 3-4 years when it was pretty inevitable that they would eventually go Dl probably ended up hurting UND..................or in the very least now, NDSU and UND could end up in two entirely different conferences. Quote
Bison Dan Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Dang. I knew we should have had the "Pride of the North" Band and the cheer team at the press conference. I'm sure UND has done none of that in the mean time. You make an assumption in there. Let me clear it up: Right time for NDSU != Right time for UND All the hay isn't in the barn (see, I'm bilingual, NDSU and UND) on that subject yet. Let's chat in a couple years. Whatever makes you happy sicatoka. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 NDSU and UND could end up in two entirely different conferences. Why would that be bad? Florida and Florida State are in two different. Each have great conference rivals and an awesome non-conference game (spelled: gate revenues) each year automatically in the schedule. Iowa and Iowa State, Colorado and CSU, Utah and Utah State, UNM and NMSU .... Quote
The Sicatoka Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Whatever makes you happy sicatoka. Careful what you wish for .... Quote
GeauxSioux Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Why would that be bad? Florida and Florida State are in two different. Each have great conference rivals and an awesome non-conference game (spelled: gate revenues) each year automatically in the schedule. Iowa and Iowa State, Colorado and CSU, Utah and Utah State, UNM and NMSU .... Clemson and South Carolina Georgia and Georgia Tech are a couple of more that come to mind. Last game played in the year and big $$$ event. Quote
biff Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 Dang. I knew we should have had the "Pride of the North" Band and the cheer team at the press conference. You might try it. It's quite relaxing. I'm sure UND has done none of that in the mean time. One would assume they have, but it's not public (unless I missed it). You make an assumption in there. Let me clear it up: Right time for NDSU != Right time for UND That's also an assumption. We'll have to wait a few years to see. PartTime suggests a possible outcome. All the hay isn't in the barn (see, I'm bilingual, NDSU and UND) on that subject yet. Let's chat in a couple years. Beating a dead horse. A wise man who goes by 'UND Fan' said, "Lets talk about sports!" I have to agree. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted July 26, 2006 Posted July 26, 2006 One would assume they have, but it's not public (unless I missed it). Some assume, some rely on public information, ... and others talk to UND administrators doing the talking to other schools and conference leaders. As far as "timing", it's no assumption either. PCM has pointed out, more than once, that UND was in the process of moving into two new venues (Alerus Center, The Ralph), had just started up a womens hockey program, and was formulating a plan for a third new venue (The Betty). Summary: Right time for some does not equal right time for all. Quote
biff Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 I can't argue with inside information. Won't buy the facilities comment (based on the PR at the time), although facilities issues would have been a much better PR strategy than they used. Back on topic, does your inside info tell you anything about Fullerton that's believable? Or is that top secret? Quote
aff Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Some assume, some rely on public information, ... and others talk to UND administrators doing the talking to other schools and conference leaders. As far as "timing", it's no assumption either. PCM has pointed out, more than once, that UND was in the process of moving into two new venues (Alerus Center, The Ralph), had just started up a womens hockey program, and was formulating a plan for a third new venue (The Betty). Summary: Right time for some does not equal right time for all. Whats the difference now in the womens hockey program? It still isn't fully funded is it? By that logic, this still isn't the right time, unless the building and moving into new facilities was somehow a burden on the coaching staff. What exactly about moving into a new facility was affecting a move to D-I again? I guess if it was that big a deal they could have simply said they were moving, but they were waiting an extra year. Come on, you know thats not true. That nice little explanation doesn't explain your admin's talk about D-I not "really being a step up", or that "UND had no intention of moving" or the "opportunities that were taken away from student athletes because of D-I" or "the corruption of D-I", or the NCC ban on playing the SU's ect. Theres no way you can blame this on the huge burden of "moving into new facilities". I think that UND could have managed to both play their games in a different building, and have some work-study students move stuff, and still go D-I. I was in grand forks several times during this period, and I didn't seem to see mountains of materials that needed to be moved in order to start playing games in those arenas. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Back on topic, does your inside info tell you anything about Fullerton that's believable? Or is that top secret? I don't ask for personal impressions from people of people. My impression of Fullerton: He should be in politics. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Theres no way you can blame this on the huge burden of "moving into new facilities". I think that UND could have managed to both play their games in a different building, and have some work-study students move stuff, and still go D-I. I was in grand forks several times during this period, and I didn't seem to see mountains of materials that needed to be moved in order to start playing games in those arenas. Reseating how many existing football and hockey season ticket holders? Seating how many new hockey season ticket holders? In an interview when he was AD, Roger Thomas said that many schools he contacted about how to proceed with a reseating plan told him he was nuts for thinking they could do two arenas in one season. And starting a new sports program from scratch? That must be an administrative walk-in-the-park too. The athletics administrative staff had those priorities. It's there in history. It's anyone's choice whether to see it or not. Quote
biff Posted July 27, 2006 Posted July 27, 2006 Facilities movement may have been a factor, but there's more obvious history than that alone. Quote
WYOBISONMAN Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 To attempt to say Kuppy thought this thing out is BS. Kuppy made a stupid decision because he is not a visionary. The fans and alumni forced the move after seeing the success of NDSU. Kuppy has done little for UND.....I am surprised you guys try to defend him. The best admin guy at UND right now is your AD.....he really seems to have it together. Quote
GeauxSioux Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 To attempt to say Kuppy thought this thing out is BS. Kuppy made a stupid decision because he is not a visionary. The fans and alumni forced the move after seeing the success of NDSU. Kuppy has done little for UND.....I am surprised you guys try to defend him. The best admin guy at UND right now is your AD.....he really seems to have it together. To say that Kupchella is not a visionary is inaccurate. His visions tend to be more academic than athletic, but he does have a vision for the University. http://www.UND.edu/stratplan/ He had also gone through a similar classification transition in Missouri and learned how painful they can be. You couple that together with the list that Star2CIty enumerated and he felt that it wasn't the right time. To say that he didn't think about it is being disingenuous. I think that UND was comfortable with where they were. We had a good solid D2 conference. The hockey team plays and excels in the best conference in the country. Why not be somewhat comfortable. I also believe that NDSU moved to get out from UND's shadow. Football is THE sport at NDSU and you were losing that battle to UND for the better part of 10 years and something had to be done. I do agree that Buning is doing a great job, but I think Kupchella is as well. Quote
Bison Dan Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 To say that Kupchella is not a visionary is inaccurate. His visions tend to be more academic than athletic, but he does have a vision for the University. http://www.UND.edu/stratplan/ He had also gone through a similar classification transition in Missouri and learned how painful they can be. You couple that together with the list that Star2CIty enumerated and he felt that it wasn't the right time. To say that he didn't think about it is being disingenuous. I think that UND was comfortable with where they were. We had a good solid D2 conference. The hockey team plays and excels in the best conference in the country. Why not be somewhat comfortable. I also believe that NDSU moved to get out from UND's shadow. Football is THE sport at NDSU and you were losing that battle to UND for the better part of 10 years and something had to be done. I do agree that Buning is doing a great job, but I think Kupchella is as well. As a overall dii sport dept. NDSU was better than UND. ie all the nc in most of the dii sports and before leaving the NCC capturing the all NCC sports championship. Quote
PCM Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 The best admin guy at UND right now is your AD.....he really seems to have it together. And who hired Buning, knowing before he was hired that his preference was for UND to move to DI? Quote
rabidrabbit Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 To say that Kupchella is not a visionary is inaccurate. His visions tend to be more academic than athletic, but he does have a vision for the University. http://www.UND.edu/stratplan/ He had also gone through a similar classification transition in Missouri and learned how painful they can be. You couple that together with the list that Star2CIty enumerated and he felt that it wasn't the right time. To say that he didn't think about it is being disingenuous. I think that UND was comfortable with where they were. We had a good solid D2 conference. The hockey team plays and excels in the best conference in the country. Why not be somewhat comfortable. I also believe that NDSU moved to get out from UND's shadow. Football is THE sport at NDSU and you were losing that battle to UND for the better part of 10 years and something had to be done. I do agree that Buning is doing a great job, but I think Kupchella is as well. This Rabbit appreciates the Star2City reasons, and most make sense. It's nice to see Kuppy choose to make a decision to move up to join your peers. You should have at least one conference (GWFC) awaiting you. In other discussions, the idea of getting UND Swimming & Diving into the Mid-Con has (apparently) been a good track for SDSU toward Mid-Con full sports membership. UND's location, sport interests tend to not mesh well with spring outdoor sports. Therefore, other indoor sports (like LaCrosse) make sense. You will find different conferences than the SU's for those sports, and celebrate those as something different than the SU's. Put your $$ and energies into the sports that will generate $$ for you. Your plan to go to 57 schollies in FB is a great way to quickly generate outside $$'s into UND sports, and ease the transition time. Both NDSU and UC-Davis have been successful with this. And even Southern Utah landed a D-I game for 2006. Quote
GeauxSioux Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 As a overall dii sport dept. NDSU was better than UND. ie all the nc in most of the dii sports and before leaving the NCC capturing the all NCC sports championship. Yes overall NDSU has more national championships than UND, but you will have to agree that most of those are in low profile, non-revenue sports. I am not trying to slight the championships or the athletes that earned them, just an observation that they are not something that give you high profile as an athletic department to the fan/supporter. The revenue sports is where UND was shining more brightly than NDSU and therefore leaving NDSU in a shadow. I know that you Bison fans don't like hearing it, but UND has 7 NCAA DIVISION I NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. That leaves a huge shadow for someone else. Quote
Bison Dan Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 Yes overall NDSU has more national championships than UND, but you will have to agree that most of those are in low profile, non-revenue sports. I am not trying to slight the championships or the athletes that earned them, just an observation that they are not something that give you high profile as an athletic department to the fan/supporter. The revenue sports is where UND was shining more brightly than NDSU and therefore leaving NDSU in a shadow. I know that you Bison fans don't like hearing it, but UND has 7 NCAA DIVISION I NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. That leaves a huge shadow for someone else. You can't compete only with dii sports- you have to use the 7 DI NC. Yes for sure UND is more successful in Hockey than any of it's dii sports. 2002 Women's Indoor Track National Championship 2001 Wrestling Championships 2000 Wrestling Championships 1998 Wrestling Championships 1988 Wrestling Championships 1996 Women's Basketball National Championship 1995 Women's Basketball National Championship 1994 Women's Basketball National Championship 1993 Women's Basketball National Championship 1991 Women's Basketball National Championship 1990 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1988 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1986 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1985 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1983 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1969 Camellia Bowl 1968 Pecan Bowl 1965 Pecan Bowl 1972 Men's Cross Country National Championship Meet These are just the championships - there are too numerous 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place national finishes to list here. Quote
NanoBison Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 I know that you Bison fans don't like hearing it, but UND has 7 NCAA DIVISION I NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. That leaves a huge shadow for someone else. Yes, you do. In Hockey. Congrats. I wouldn't say those Hockey Championships are the hot ticket either when it comes to viewing sports on national stage. I'd say it's Football, Basketball, a couple of other sports, then Hockey. That doesn't leave a shadow for a school that doesn't even play Hockey either. If NDSU ever takes up Hockey, which I highly doubt we will, and truely hope we don't, then, at that time, we can compare the two schools on that playing field. But please, don't compare Football Championships with Hockey Championships. There is no comparison. Quote
PCM Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 But please, don't compare Football Championships with Hockey Championships. There is no comparison. You are correct. There is no comparison between NDSU's football championships to the amount of worldwide publicity and recognition UND receives for its hockey program and championships. Quote
southpaw Posted July 28, 2006 Posted July 28, 2006 You can't compete only with dii sports- you have to use the 7 DI NC. Yes for sure UND is more successful in Hockey than any of it's dii sports. 2002 Women's Indoor Track National Championship 2001 Wrestling Championships 2000 Wrestling Championships 1998 Wrestling Championships 1988 Wrestling Championships 1996 Women's Basketball National Championship 1995 Women's Basketball National Championship 1994 Women's Basketball National Championship 1993 Women's Basketball National Championship 1991 Women's Basketball National Championship 1990 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1988 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1986 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1985 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1983 NCAA Division II Football National Championship 1969 Camellia Bowl 1968 Pecan Bowl 1965 Pecan Bowl 1972 Men's Cross Country National Championship Meet These are just the championships - there are too numerous 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place national finishes to list here. it's no wonder ndsu went division 1. that 2002 indoor womens track national championshpi really showed they were ready for the big time. Quote
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