Potts blasts Chapman

[SiouxMD]

Here ya go Sioux-cia.

You guys really need to slow down and read my post.

NDUS = North Dakota University System

NDSU = North Dakota State University

They seem similar but they are different...

I will make it easier for you.

"Do you really believe that the potential loss of the North Dakota University System Chancellor Potts has no bearing on UND or is of no interest to a UND messageboard?

Nice try..."

[NanoBison]

I really don't know what IowaBison was going for on that one...

[nodakvindy]

They still are in Fargo SiouxMD, get your facts straight. UND Fargo

Did you actually look at how those courses are delivered? Virtually all are online courses. Only two are IVN classes actually in Fargo. Are you proposing that the UND.edu extension be blocked from computers in the FM metro area too?

[IowaBison]

You guys really need to slow down and read my post.

NDUS = North Dakota University System

NDSU = North Dakota State University

They seem similar but they are different...

I will make it easier for you.

"Do you really believe that the potential loss of the North Dakota University System Chancellor Potts has no bearing on UND or is of no interest to a UND messageboard?

Nice try..."

Don't need to slow down at all.

The NDUS Chancellor has threatened to quit if the NDSU President doesn't get in line. Seems like a story that has something to do with that school in Fargo.

nice try, though.

[SiouxMD]

I really don't know what IowaBison was going for on that one...

The same as BisonMav...

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=171638

[IowaBison]

I really don't know what IowaBison was going for on that one...

1. Sioux-cia stated that the thread has nothing to do with UND.

2. SiouxMD stated that is does.

[IowaBison]

The same as BisonMav...

http://siouxsports.com/forums/index.php?s=...ndpost&p=171638

that's incorrect. nowhere did I confuse the NDUS with NDSU.

see the above post.

[siouxjoy]

Bachelor of General Studies (B.G.S) (It's typically called University Studies here)

Bachelor of Science Degree in Electrical, Mechanical, Chemical or Civil Engineering (We offer all of those classes...)

the list goes on....

The big differences are that the B.G.S degree and Engineering degrees are offered online or through correspondence, neither of which are available at NDSU, hence they aren't duplicates and are still able to be offered.

[Sioux-cia]

Here ya go Sioux-cia.

Sorry forgot who I was talking to>>

So, which of the programs that are currently available from UND in Fargo (not online) are available at NDSU:

Graduate Courses Leading to Endorsement in Teaching English Languare Learners

Doctoral Degree in Educational Leadership

Master of education Degree in Special Education

Kupchella needs to go and UND needs to get the hell out of Fargo.

Have you polled the educators in Fargo who are taking these courses and asked them if they want Kupchella to get the hell out of Fargo? Do any of you bison know if NDSU even wants to provide these classes to the Fargo educators who want and in many cases need them? Do any of you know that the persons taking these classes can only take them as offered because of their 'daytime' teaching jobs. I believe you are wrong to think that if NDSU offered evening/weekend classes that are not available at UND there would be an uproar.

NDSU is NOT offering the courses so there is NO duplication of courses/programs. The fact that these classes are available in Fargo has NOTHING to do with this thread. I stand by my statement, 'Once again, SURPRISE, the mealy mouthed step sister to the south has managed to turn a thread that had nothing to do with UND or Kupchella into a hate fest for UND, et el.'

Don't like my posts, NanoBison, put me on ignore!

[NanoBison]

Did you actually look at how those courses are delivered? Virtually all are online courses. Only two are IVN classes actually in Fargo. Are you proposing that the UND.edu extension be blocked from computers in the FM metro area too?

You don't need to jump to conclusions that are far fetched as that. I never said that. I said UND, besides its medical program with the Veterans Hospital, doesn't need a physical location in Fargo.

[NanoBison]

Sorry forgot who I was talking to>>

So, which of the programs that are currently available from UND in Fargo (not online) are available at NDSU:

Graduate Courses Leading to Endorsement in Teaching English Languare Learners

Doctoral Degree in Educational Leadership

Master of education Degree in Special Education

Have you polled the educators in Fargo who are taking these courses and asked them if they want Kupchella to get the hell out of Fargo? Do any of you bison know if NDSU even wants to provide these classes to the Fargo educators who want and in many cases need them? Do any of you know that the persons taking these classes can only take them as offered because of their 'daytime' teaching jobs. I believe you are wrong to think that if NDSU offered evening/weekend classes that are not available at UND there would be an uproar.

NDSU is NOT offering the courses so there is NO duplication of courses/programs. The fact that these classes are available in Fargo has NOTHING to do with this thread. I stand by my statement, 'Once again, SURPRISE, the mealy mouthed step sister to the south has managed to turn a thread that had nothing to do with UND or Kupchella into a hate fest for UND, et el.'

Don't like my posts, NanoBison, put me on ignore!

I never said I didn't like your posts. Your last one just didn't add anything to the discussion. Boy you guys are all icthy trigger fingers today, something bad happen in G.F. to put you all on the edge??? Jeesh ...

[Sioux-cia]

I never said I didn't like your posts. Your last one just didn't add anything to the discussion. Boy you guys are all icthy trigger fingers today, something bad happen in G.F. to put you all on the edge??? Jeesh ...

MY comment in response to the quotes listed below is right on. If you don't want the classes that UND is offering in Fargo, don't ASSume that others don't want and actually need them. NDSU is not offering the same courses or programs. If you read my entire response instead of the last sentence, you would know there is no duplication of programs/classes being offered by UND in the Fargo area. As a person with a post graduate degree who needs continuing education to keep my license, I would take classes from UMTC if they offered classes in GF that I need that are not offered by UND. My career is more important than a rivalry and so are the careers of the persons taking the classes UND provides in Fargo.

In my opinion, UND offering those classes in Fargo has NOTHING to do with the Potts/Chapman battle.

... but they do not need to have a permanent presence in Fargo otherwise.

Could you imagine the firestorm of protest if NDSU decided to open a center in Grand Forks? Obviously we wouldn't, because that would be screaming duplication of programs.

Which way do you think it is when Potts sent kupy packing out of Fargo with his tail between his legs.

Kupchella needs to go and UND needs to get the hell out of Fargo.

[NanoBison]

MY comment in response to the quotes listed below is right on. If you don't want the classes that UND is offering in Fargo, don't ASSume that others don't want and actually need them. NDSU is not offering the same courses or programs. If you read my entire response instead of the last sentence, you would know there is no duplication of programs/classes being offered by UND in the Fargo area.... In my opinion, UND offering those classes in Fargo has NOTHING to do with the Potts/Chapman battle.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and to disagree with mine, but when you make childish attempts at a stab, like those highlighted above, you loose your credibility.

[The Sicatoka]

If you are taking an on-line or correspondence course through UND many of those courses/programs require that exams be given by a proctor known to UND. Thus, given UND's existing offices to support UND's Medical School at the VA Hospital in north Fargo, that is where many folks are able to find a UND proctor for exams.

Believe it or not, the issue wasn't the courses or the office space as much as a sign that said, "UND Fargo."

[NanoBison]

If you are taking an on-line or correspondence course through UND many of those courses/programs require that exams be given by a proctor known to UND. Thus, given UND's existing offices to support UND's Medical School at the VA Hospital in north Fargo, that is where many folks are able to find a UND proctor for exams.

Believe it or not, the issue wasn't the courses or the office space as much as a sign that said, "UND Fargo."

Perhaps.

[The Sicatoka]

Back to the issue at hand:

Why is it that Potts is the bad guy when 10 of 11 NDUS university presidents don't seem to have any (explosively public) issues with him?

[NanoBison]

I'm going to wait on commenting until I hear a point-by-point listing of what Potts deems as issues so both parties can make valid arguements towards/against those claims. Right now we're sitting on "one of the Presidents snuffs his nose at me". The tax-payers of North Dakota have a right to know what's up. Where's the beef?

[aff]

Your reply is hardly worthy of noteing but I did want to address a couple of things you said. First of all I never once mentioned anything about Chapman and DI. You seem to think that the only reason any supporter of NDSU could commend him for is because he supported/led the move to DI. You seem to just convienantly forget he's helped bring in more research dollars and growth to Fargo which is not only a benefit to Fargo but to the State of ND as a whole. Your whole post reaks of contempt for anyone who might support NDSU or Chapman based soley on your notion that they all are homers and only support him becuase of the move to DI. That is ridiculous and you are the one who is ignorant of the facts. Your comment "I truly appreciate your post. That was by far the most rediculous, idiotic, homer filled writing I have ever read. You remind me of the people that would go support M. Jackson during his trials. They have no idea what was going on, but anybody that even said there might be a problem was absolutely wrong. They knew he wasn't guilty, becuase.... they liked his songs. You know Chapman hasn't done anything wrong.... because he took NDSU D-I." just shows that when confronted with someone who asks you to present anything in the way of factual information you don't respond with any supporting info you just attack and make those idiotic remarks. Do us all a favor and crawl back under the rock you came from.

Hey, I've got an idea! Why don't YOU provide some facts? I don't think the burden of proof is on me here, your the one coming on and trashing anybody who thinks that there might be a problem with Chapman when the Chancellor is willing to quit his job over him.

Heres a couple of facts:

1. Every president except Chapman is fine with the current system.

2. The Chancellor has threatened to resign because of Chapman.

3. Chapman refuses to even say that Potts has authority over him, WHEN HE OBVIOUSLY DOES.

So, theres three FACTS. Now, in your next post, instead of trying to trash me, and not saying a single argument about the situation YOU PROVIDE SOME FACTS. I WANT THESE FACTS LISTED, AS I'VE DONE ABOVE.

And for such a FACT based guy, you sure as hel! haven't taken the time to get the FACTS about my history of posting. HINT: THERE ISN'T A SINGLE POST BEFORE THIS THREAD THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH TRASHING NDSU. ON THE CONTRARY, MOST OF MY POSTS ARE ARGUING WITH UND SUPPORTERS.

So lets see it D-I in Fargo. Can you actually complete an intelligent post? Or are you just going to talk about:

1. You're an idiot because you don't agree with me.

2. You don't like NDSU because your jealous of how great it is.

3. Chapman is the best becasue XXX not related to this situation in anyway.\

4. UND did XXX not related to this situation.

The burdens on you now. Theres your three FACTS. Another post with no substance, only trying to trash me, and I'm done responding.

[NanoBison]

How about we wait to hear directly from either Chapman's or Pott's mouths, not some second party sources, giving some validity to the claims and backing them up. Otherwise, we have no better than the situation a month ago when there was talk that the board was going to ask for Pott's removal only later to give him a vote of confidence.

[Sioux-cia]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and to disagree with mine, but when you make childish attempts at a stab, like those highlighted above, you loose your credibility.

MY credibility!!

To make an ass of one's self, to do or say something very

foolish or absurd.

Such as

... but they do not need to have a permanent presence in Fargo otherwise.

Could you imagine the firestorm of protest if NDSU decided to open a center in Grand Forks? Obviously we wouldn't, because that would be screaming duplication of programs.

Why focus on the ASS portion of my post and not the portion dealing with the programs/courses offered by UND in Fargo and the persons in Fargo who want them. The absurdity of the quotes from you and fellow Bison is too apparent to dispute!

Which way do you think it is when Potts sent kupy packing out of Fargo with his tail between his legs.

Kupchella needs to go and UND needs to get the hell out of Fargo.

[NanoBison]

MY credibility!!

Yes, your credibility.

Such as

There is nothing absurd in that previous statement.

Why focus on the ASS portion of my post and not the portion dealing with the programs/courses offered by UND in Fargo and the persons in Fargo who want them. The absurdity of the quotes from you and fellow Bison is too apparent to dispute!

Becuase it was a blatantly childish and crude act to take a stab at me when my post was civil.

Don't group me into the same as those responses above. My responses were civil, those above are obviously jabs.

[iramurphy]

How about we wait to hear directly from either Chapman's or Pott's mouths, not some second party sources, giving some validity to the claims and backing them up. Otherwise, we have no better than the situation a month ago when there was talk that the board was going to ask for Pott's removal only later to give him a vote of confidence.

I believe you have heard from Potts. He will not, nor can he, outline in detail what his issues are with one of his subordinates. It might violate the data privacy act and could place the state and the board in jeopardy for a legal recourse if Chapman so chooses. If he has a problem with an employee, the employee must give permission for that information to be made public.

If Chapman has a problem with his boss, there should be a process by which he can appeal to the board. That should be the entire board not just a select few. That is something the board should keep confident and I believe is one of the exceptions to the requirement for the open meeting law. They can go into closed session for that protion of the meeting. If Potts has a problem with Chapman he needs to deal with him with the authority he has. Unfortunately, if a board member or members undermines Potts' authority to control his subordinates, then it renders Potts powerless to bring his subordinates in line.

If I were the Governor, I would have a talk with John Q. Paulsen and let him know how unhappy I am at the embarrassment this issue is to me as Governor and to our state. I would give him a short period of time to make a public statement of support for Potts, make sure Chapman makes amends to Potts and then through the appropriate employee program ensure that Chapman has no resonable issues with Potts. If he doesn't, I would give him a couple of days to decide if he wishes to continue working for the state of N. Dak. and working for his boss. I would also determine whether or not Potts is part of the problem. I would want to get input from the other University presidents and if they feel Potts is doing a good job I would keep him. If they don't support him I would accept his offer to resign.

I would also let Mr. Paulsen know that if this ongoing fuss continues I would expect him to resign from the Board of Higher education and replace him with a more objective Board member. As Board Chair, he needs to set the tone and the example for the rest of the Board.

I noticed no support for my thought that when the two bigger school presidents act like professionals and remember they must act for what is in the best interests of the state of N. Dak. and not just "their" University. Both schools can still prosper. I mentioned the professionalism and relationship that Clifford and Loftsgard had. Both schools seemed to prosper under their leadership.

[NanoBison]

I believe you have heard from Potts. He will not, nor can he, outline in detail what his issues are with one of his subordinates. It might violate the data privacy act and could place the state and the board in jeopardy for a legal recourse if Chapman so chooses. If he has a problem with an employee, the employee must give permission for that information to be made public.

No we haven't. Potts has not made one idication of what Chapman did to set him off. I would venture a guess it was the additional funding issue (NDSU get's more becuase we don't count the Extension Research Stations in the funding equity equations...). If it was such, there is nothing wrong in my opinion with Chapman going directly to the legislature for those funds, if Potts was indeed holding us back. That's why I want to hear the whole story. At this point we are all making claims.

If Chapman has a problem with his boss, there should be a process by which he can appeal to the board. That should be the entire board not just a select few. That is something the board should keep confident and I believe is one of the exceptions to the requirement for the open meeting law. They can go into closed session for that protion of the meeting. If Potts has a problem with Chapman he needs to deal with him with the authority he has. Unfortunately, if a board member or members undermines Potts' authority to control his subordinates, then it renders Potts powerless to bring his subordinates in line.

I can agree with this, except the last sentence. Potts still has the authority to do as we pleases in terms of managing the University presidents, with the approval of the board. If he is disastified, he can ask the board to remove that president. Unfortunately, he didn't do this, he issued an ultimatum, "either me or him", remember? Potts choose the wrong way to approach this, lacking civility, and now he's going to have to unfortunately deal with the consequences of those actions whatever they may be.

If I were the Governor, I would have a talk with John Q. Paulsen and let him know how unhappy I am at the embarrassment this issue is to me as Governor and to our state. I would give him a short period of time to make a public statement of support for Potts, make sure Chapman makes amends to Potts and then through the appropriate employee program ensure that Chapman has no resonable issues with Potts. If he doesn't, I would give him a couple of days to decide if he wishes to continue working for the state of N. Dak. and working for his boss. I would also determine whether or not Potts is part of the problem. I would want to get input from the other University presidents and if they feel Potts is doing a good job I would keep him. If they don't support him I would accept his offer to resign.

I would also let Mr. Paulsen know that if this ongoing fuss continues I would expect him to resign from the Board of Higher education and replace him with a more objective Board member. As Board Chair, he needs to set the tone and the example for the rest of the Board.

I totally disagree with that. Chancellor Potts could have taken a much more respectable and civil approach to this issue. You make it sound like John Q. Paulsen is meant to keep Chapman in check or else he's out to destroy the state, which is the complete opposite of what he's done. Chancellor Potts could have dealt with this behind closed doors, since as you said, it would fall outside of open-meeting law, with the privacy issue. Potts was the one who brought the bad publicity to the state of North Dakota, not Chapman or Paulsen. The board itself as a entity, is ineffective and has been for many years.

I noticed no support for my thought that when the two bigger school presidents act like professionals and remember they must act for what is in the best interests of the state of N. Dak. and not just "their" University. Both schools can still prosper. I mentioned the professionalism and relationship that Clifford and Loftsgard had. Both schools seemed to prosper under their leadership.

I don't remember hearing praises in terms of growth and success coming from the tenures of Clifford and Loftsgard, when measured up against the efforts and results of Chapman. What you are basically suggesting is that UND and NDSU can prosper if Potts, Chapman and Kupchella all work together. I remember your president making several comments (remember the "it absolutely pains me to think that NDSU is making any progress ahead of us..." type statements) about NDSU that obviously undermines Chapman. With the obvious underfunded system we have right now, you can expect the two largest universities to fight teeth and nail to get their share of the money, support to start new academic programs and research dollars

[aff]

No we haven't. Potts has not made one idication of what Chapman did to set him off. I would venture a guess it was the additional funding issue (NDSU get's more becuase we don't count the Extension Research Stations in the funding equity equations...). If it was such, there is nothing wrong in my opinion with Chapman going directly to the legislature for those funds, if Potts was indeed holding us back. That's why I want to hear the whole story. At this point we are all making claims.

Yeah, you have. He said "Chapman needs to recognize my authority or I'm quitting". Seems like Potts doesn't think that Chapman has been listening to him. You don't need to hear Chapman did XXX in order to understand that Potts thinks that he is being insubordinate. By the way, its the monday after Potts demanded that statement. Whats taking Chapman so long to recognize that his boss has authority over him? Seems a little insubordinate to me.

I totally disagree with that. Chancellor Potts could have taken a much more respectable and civil approach to this issue. You make it sound like John Q. Paulsen is meant to keep Chapman in check or else he's out to destroy the state, which is the complete opposite of what he's done. Chancellor Potts could have dealt with this behind closed doors, since as you said, it would fall outside of open-meeting law, with the privacy issue. Potts was the one who brought the bad publicity to the state of North Dakota, not Chapman or Paulsen. The board itself as a entity, is ineffective and has been for many years.

Did you ever think that Potts HAS tried to deal with this behind closed doors, and Chapman hasn't bothered listening. Threatening to quit your job is usually your last recourse, not your first. Potts made this statement publically, so that if hes forced out, who ever interviews for this job next will know full and well what the reason for him leaving was, so that people will understand the situation when the interview for the job.

. If it was such, there is nothing wrong in my opinion with Chapman going directly to the legislature for those funds, if Potts was indeed holding us back. That's why I want to hear the whole story. At this point we are all making claims.

I'm pretty sure that Potts wasn't trying to stop Chapman from getting additional funds, more like he was stopping Chapman from taking funds from other institutions. I think NDSU fans know that too, and they don't really have a problem with it, so they are supporting Chapman on this. If 10 other presidents don't have a problem with a funding system, than I'm guessing its pretty fair. To be fair on my part though, I don't have any proof that this is what actually happened, but I find it extremely unlikely that a man in charge of the education system would fight someone from getting more money for the education system. It doesn't really seem to be in their best interests.

I don't remember hearing praises in terms of growth and success coming from the tenures of Clifford and Loftsgard, when measured up against the efforts and results of Chapman. What you are basically suggesting is that UND and NDSU can prosper if Potts, Chapman and Kupchella all work together. I remember your president making several comments (remember the "it absolutely pains me to think that NDSU is making any progress ahead of us..." type statements) about NDSU that obviously undermines Chapman. With the obvious underfunded system we have right now, you can expect the two largest universities to fight teeth and nail to get their share of the money, support to start new academic programs and research dollars

So, pretty much, might makes right? Or the end justifies the means? Come on, you know that there is an obligation to stay within the educational system for these fights for money, and not bring the legislature into it. Potts should be the only connection, not Chapman, Kupchella, or any of the presidents.

[Sioux-cia]

Ok, let's just look at your post. Why do you object to UND having a 'permanent presence in Fargo otherwise'. Is NDSU offering the educators in the Fargo area the same courses/programs that UND is offering them in Fargo? What do you suggest those educators who need/want these courses/programs do? Commute? ND already has some ot the the lowest paid educators in the country, do you suggest they also be the least educated because you don't want UND offering them continued education that is NOT being offered by NDSU?

Why would anyone who wants an education protest any institution providing courses/programs in their community? If NDSU wants to offer courses/programs that are not available at UND in the GF area, NO ONE except someone without a concept of the importance and worth of education is going to protest!