Decision or Another Meaningless Day?

[southpaw]

Well, we're four days away from the supposed decision day. This Thursday, the NCAA says it will rule on UND's nickname. You've got to think, or at least hope, that the NCAA realizes that UND will make them look foolish in court. I guess since the NCAA already looks pretty stupid, having it done in court won't be that big of a deal.

Thoughts on "Decision Day 2006"

[Sioux-cia]

Without a doubt, the appeal will be denied. Myles has his head so far up his a$$ on this one that he can't see anything past his $hit covered brain.

[redwing77]

My question is will there will any debate at all or will they just move to vote and deny the appeal within 5 minutes of the item coming up on the agenda?

My bet is that Kupchella won't have to wait long to get a phone call telling him that it has been denied on April 27th. And I'd be VERY surprised if the story wasn't ready for the press by the 5pm news the same day.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

My question is will there will any debate at all or will they just move to vote and deny the appeal within 5 minutes of the item coming up on the agenda?

My bet is that Kupchella won't have to wait long to get a phone call telling him that it has been denied on April 27th. And I'd be VERY surprised if the story wasn't ready for the press by the 5pm news the same day.

My money is on the NCAA denying the appeal within 5 minutes of discussion and they'll mention the lack of tribal support since the spirit lake nation did not respond to them. Ultimately, it will be a court battle and I hope we can find a judge who can put an injunction on this policy until the case is settled. In addition, I think we have a potential partner in the class action as the Illinios appeal sounded much like ours and vice-versa.

We can't let the PC crowd win on this because the slope will be steeper and harder to climb out of if they do win.

Go Sioux!

[gjw007]

My money is on the NCAA denying the appeal within 5 minutes of discussion and they'll mention the lack of tribal support since the spirit lake nation did not respond to them. Ultimately, it will be a court battle and I hope we can find a judge who can put an injunction on this policy until the case is settled. In addition, I think we have a potential partner in the class action as the Illinios appeal sounded much like ours and vice-versa.

We can't let the PC crowd win on this because the slope will be steeper and harder to climb out of if they do win.

Go Sioux!

You think it will take that long!

[82SiouxGuy]

The announcement of the denial will probably be released on Friday afternoon. Isn't that when the NC$$ usually drops their PC pronouncements?

[PCM]

The NCAA process was outlined here.

On April 27, the NCAA Division II Presidents Council will review all the information and make a recommendation to the NCAA Executive Committee, which meets later the same day. The Executive Committee will then rule on UND's final appeal.

It will be interesting to see what recommendation the DII Presidents Council makes to the Executive Committee. Will the presidents oppose the executive committee's policy? If so, will we be told about it?

Heading into April 27, I thought this would be the final step in the appeals process because that's what the NCAA had said. However, on the April 10 "Monday with Myles" program in which NCAA Double-A Zone blogger Josh Centor interviews NCAA President Myles Brand, the following exchange occurred:

Centor: Where do we stand right now? Where are we in the process?

Brand: We have a few appeals pending. We are moving forward. Our goal was to establish a national dialogue on this issues. We've done that, probably more than we expected. And we're working our way through it. I think we should, in the next several months, be pretty far along.

It now sounds as if Brand doesn't expect all appeals to be decided on April 27 which, if true, represents yet another NCAA retreat from its policy. Could it be that the last thing the NCAA wants to have happen is for this issue to go to court? UND has given every indication that this is what will happen once its final appeal is denied.

[redwing77]

The NCAA process was outlined here.

It will be interesting to see what recommendation the DII Presidents Council makes to the Executive Committee. Will the presidents oppose the executive committee's policy? If so, will we be told about it?

Heading into April 27, I thought this would be the final step in the appeals process because that's what the NCAA had said. However, on the April 10 "Monday with Myles" program in which NCAA Double-A Zone blogger Josh Centor interviews NCAA President Myles Brand, the following exchange occurred:

It now sounds as if Brand doesn't expect all appeals to be decided on April 27 which, if true, represents yet another NCAA retreat from its policy. Could it be that the last thing the NCAA wants to have happen is for this issue to go to court? UND has given every indication that this is what will happen once its final appeal is denied.

IMO (which isn't based on sources, hence why it is my opinion ), I think that's good news for Illinois. News for us is that we'll still be losing the appeal.

I can't see how we could win it. We're the banner waving institution behind Brand's social change movement. They can't make Illinois, FSU, CMU, or Utah change their names. They bring in too much $$$ so Bradley and UND are the next biggest schools. We have to lose or Brand looks like an idiot. I don't think the NCAA would put Franklin or Brand out to dry. UND will lose their final appeal.

[PCM]

I can't see how we could win it.

I can. What if some high-priced attorney with expertise in anti-trust law reviewed UND's last appeal and told Brand, "You don't want this to go to court." What if lawyers told the presidents sitting on the DII Presidents Council the same thing?

Go back and listen to what Brand and Walter Harrison were saying on Aug. 5, 2005. Look at the appeals that have been granted since then. Look at how many times the NCAA has retreated from enforcing its policy every time that UND has challenged it.

At one time, the NCAA said that even having tribal permission to use a nickname wasn't good enough to get a school removed from its "hostile and abusive" list.

At one time, the NCAA said that effective on Aug. 5, 2006, no school would be allowed to wear uniforms with American Indian references or imagery.

At one time, the NCAA said that all Sioux references in Engelstad Arena would have to be covered up for the West Regional.

At one time, the NCAA said that after Feb. 1, no school with an American Indian nickname would be allowed to host an NCAA tournament or plalyoff event.

At one time, the NCAA said all appeals would be decided by Feb. 1, 2006.

At one time, the NCAA said that all appeals would be decided by April 27, 2006.

And now, we have Brand saying that the appeals process could go on another several months.

I can see how we could win it.

Edited April 24, 2006 by PCM

[7>4]

The appeal will be delayed to give UND more time to obtain approval of one or more of the Sioux tribes. The only way the NCAA saves face is to place UND in the same position as other schools that have gotten the waiver. I am confident that UND and one of the tribes will be able to work out acceptable agreement to continue using the name. If that isn't in place by the 27th, the date will be extended.

NCAA is all about saving face at this point. Brand is too stubborn or stupid to approve the appeal without tribal support. UND would be wise to pursue this route. Nobody but the lawyers win with a protracted legal action.

[DamStrait]

There ain't nothin' wrong w/ Myles Brand that a twice-daily ass kickin' wouldn't solve. I hereby volunteer to administer the remedy.

[PCM]

UND would be wise to pursue this route.

That is a key part of UND's strategy.

Nobody but the lawyers win with a protracted legal action.

I can't agree with that. Yes, the lawyers will get rich. But if UND walks away with the legally established right to use the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname, then it wins and the NCAA loses.

In some ways, I'd find that outcome preferable to an NCAA policy waiver.

[Nodaker]

I can't agree with that. Yes, the lawyers will get rich. But if UND walks away with the legally established right to use the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname, then it wins and the NCAA loses.

In some ways, I'd find that outcome preferable to an NCAA policy waiver.

I have always felt that a court date is a must. A NC$$ waiver due to tribal support is just placing the decision of our name in the hands of Tribal leadership. Their happy, we keep the name. Their not happy, this whole thing starts again. I say we follow through with the legal action and like PCM said establish the right to use the Fighting Sioux logo.

Go Sioux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sioux-cia]

I have always felt that a court date is a must. A NC$$ waiver due to tribal support is just placing the decision of our name in the hands of Tribal leadership. Their happy, we keep the name. Their not happy, this whole thing starts again. I say we follow through with the legal action and like PCM said establish the right to use the Fighting Sioux logo.

Go Sioux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree. We've had several months (years) to get tribal support so I don't believe the NC$$ is going to extent the deadline so we get 'permission'. I personally don't think we should need tribal persmission to use a name and logo that is not trademarked by any sole tribe; anymore than than any other team/city/state/merchandise/business has to get tribal permission to use a Native American name. The only reason for another NC$$ delay is to put off the inevitable>>they're loss in court.

[dagies]

That is a key part of UND's strategy.

I can't agree with that. Yes, the lawyers will get rich. But if UND walks away with the legally established right to use the Fighting Sioux logo and nickname, then it wins and the NCAA loses.

In some ways, I'd find that outcome preferable to an NCAA policy waiver.

Yes, because every morning UND has to wake up and wonder if they've got the tribal support that day. This issue is deeper than just tribal support. UND needs it proven that in the law of the United States and in the opinion of reasonable people, it's perfectly entitled to respectfully use the nickname as it is.

[WiSioux]

Article from the Dakota Student about Thursday's upcoming decision:

http://www.dakotastudent.com/media/storage...kotastudent.com

[redwing77]

Another good question: How many minutes or hours will it take after the appeal is denied for the first of the pro name change crowd's crowing to start?

I think it may be a little longer in coming now that GK has gotten himself ousted from here.

[Diggler]

I'm glad I didn't vote until today. It makes me look like one of the few smart ones.

[Sioux-cia]

The appeal decision isn't back YET!!!!!!!!!!!!

While Standing Rock's support is great news, remember who we're dealing with here. The changer of rules, regulations, policies, etc. The Almighty NC$$. Until, they grant us an exemption, I'm holding off popping that champagn cork.

[redwing77]

The appeal decision isn't back YET!!!!!!!!!!!!

While Standing Rock's support is great news, remember who we're dealing with here. The changer of rules, regulations, policies, etc. The Almighty NC$$. Until, they grant us an exemption, I'm holding off popping that champagn cork.

My vote hasn't changed.

Appeal denied.

[denversioux]

The appeal decision isn't back YET!!!!!!!!!!!!

While Standing Rock's support is great news, remember who we're dealing with here. The changer of rules, regulations, policies, etc. The Almighty NC$$. Until, they grant us an exemption, I'm holding off popping that champagn cork.

The great thing is this, the NCAA has put itself in a position to where if they deny the North Dakota appeal, after todays events of us garnering support from both Sioux tribes in ND, then they are actually applying a different precendent to UND as they are to FSU, which was given the exemption. I would think an outcome from a lawsuit based on those facts is fairly obvious.

If I were a betting man, I would guess that they will delay a decision on UND, and deny the other schools appeals today.

No matter what, I think those of us who support the name should feel a lot better today than yesterday.