Grapes on HCiN, Friday night

[sprig]

Given the rants around message boards in the US concerning Canada not giving college players a chance to play in the WJC (taking major junior players first), it was interesting to hear Cherry's rant concerning all the NHL teams picking college players and not giving major junior players a chance. He specifically yapped about Lamouriello's college player lineup and draft picks as well as Minnesota wanting Minnesota players only. Interesting.

[Goon]

Given the rants around message boards in the US concerning Canada not giving college players a chance to play in the WJC (taking major junior players first), it was interesting to hear Cherry's rant concerning all the NHL teams picking college players and not giving major junior players a chance. He specifically yapped about Lamouriello's college player lineup and draft picks as well as Minnesota wanting Minnesota players only. Interesting.

Wow how time had changed. Don Cherry Can't be serious is he?

[siouxnami]

Given the rants around message boards in the US concerning Canada not giving college players a chance to play in the WJC (taking major junior players first), it was interesting to hear Cherry's rant concerning all the NHL teams picking college players and not giving major junior players a chance. He specifically yapped about Lamouriello's college player lineup and draft picks as well as Minnesota wanting Minnesota players only. Interesting.

Are you serious?

I just lost alot of respect for this guy. The reality is that the NCAA is a better route, which now offers:

A) College Education for those that don't get the big offers.

2) Superior exposure.

III) Likely a higher percentage for developing high end talent and placing them in the NHL (maybe close, but the trend is the NCAA is closing or passing MJs).

E) Good exposure to US scouts (where most the NHL is, sorry canada)

[Canuck]

A) College Education for those that don't get the big offers.

Major junior players can still attend college classes.

2) Superior exposure.

Really? To whom? ESPN/ESPN2 televises the Frozen Four and regional networks televise most games of select teams. Major junior games, regular season and playoffs, are televised throughout the season on one of Canada's national sports networks. Seems like a wash to me.

III) Likely a higher percentage for developing high end talent and placing them in the NHL (maybe close, but the trend is the NCAA is closing or passing MJs).

The NCAA is rapidly producing more and more NHLers than it used to, yes, but the total numbers don't yet approach the CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL).

E) Good exposure to US scouts (where most the NHL is, sorry canada)

Oh that's right. Because scouts never travel.

[Sioux_Hab-it]

What would you expect the owner of a CHL team to say if he sees his league starting to lose talent, exposure and hype to another.

[sprig]

The NCAA is rapidly producing more and more NHLers than it used to, yes, but the total numbers don't yet approach the CHL (WHL, OHL, QMJHL).

I agree, Canuck, which made the Cherry rant even more suprising. Maybe Sioux Habit has it right.

[AZSIOUX]

just stupid of don cherry to say this crap. there are many great leagues out there and its great that players coming up have the choice to play in certain leagues. there are positives to each league out there and he should feel like he always LOOKS and thats like a damn fool! a gm can do whatever the hell he wants, hence the 2 letters GM............its working damn good for the devils whatever route Lou takes in getting his players..

[redwing77]

Don Cherry is the Doug Woog of Canadian Hockey. Yeah, I said it. Only difference is that Woog makes a decent commentator. Don Cherry has said that the NHL should be closed to or retrict the number of European players in the league. He's a HUGE homer for the CHL and his comments about major juniors just mirrors what the Moncton head coach's actions have been saying: Major Juniors is starting to lose it's vast superiority in hockey talent. More and more scouts are noticing NCAA DI hockey. Even the CHA and AHA are getting looks. Toews was a #1 pick by the Tri City Americans in the WHL bantam draft. Though I'm sure they still hope to nab him, they lost out on two years already (As, IIRC Toews could have gone to Tri City the year prior to coming to UND if he had wanted).. More and more teams, like Moncton, are realizing that they are the 'backup plans' to many first through third round NHL draft picks. Even NCAA coaches are getting noticed (Blais, Lamoriello, and a few others). Former NCAA DI players are becoming coaches in the NHL (Tippett of Dallas as one example). I really think this is nothing more than saying "Look at me look at me" by a league who is losing its superiority.

No, I don't think NCAA DI hockey will ever be superior to Major Juniors, but I do think the playing field will continue to even out.

The Wild only want MInnesota kids? News to me. I thought they only wanted defensive players and other teams' rejects. Never knew I was wrong. Good to know.

[Canuck]

Don Cherry is the Doug Woog of Canadian Hockey. Yeah, I said it. Only difference is that Woog makes a decent commentator.

WOW.

On second thought...I won't even touch that one.

[siouxforeverbaby]

The Wild only want MInnesota kids? News to me. I thought they only wanted defensive players and other teams' rejects. Never knew I was wrong. Good to know.

Ok, we all know that they don't want just Minnesota kids cause they took Irmen who is a ND boy!

[siouxguyinstpaul]

How's this for being a timely article?

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/s...ta/14407961.htm

[Siouxman]

I have never respected Don Cherry mostly because of his hatred for players who wear visors and his glorification of goon tactics. I now think even less of him than I did before, which I didn't think was even possible. He is a complete imbecile.

I lost all respect for Cherry when I was at UND in the 70's and watching Hockey Night in Canada. He is a classless act and has been a negative for the game of hockey. He has actively promoted fighting and challenged people to fights when he was coaching. "Goon" fits him perfectly.

Oh, and by the way, according to Cherry Canada could send three teams to Turino and bring home gold, silver, and bronze.

[KTF]

Interesting rant indeed, if that is what he meant. I am not sure where he is coming from though. In the last two drafts, U.S. College and college bound players certainly made their presence felt but the CHL had twice as many drafted in the first round.

Take a look at this years rankings and the trend will simply continue (meaning far more CHL players taken than college ones.)

The NHL CSB has 20 CHLers in their first round compared to 10 from the NCAA...or NCAA bound players. ISS has 14 CHLers to 7 NCAA players, McKeens has 18 CHLers to 8 NCAA players and I believe Red Line also has a 2-1 margin in favor of the CHL.

This also assumes that all the NCAA bound players will actually play college hockey (I am hearing a lot of talk that E. Johnson will not be playing for the Gophs next year after all) and these numbers do not take into account the drafted Euro players who will play in the CHL next year.

U.S. college hockey has certainly made great strides in the past decade or so, but the CHL still draws in more talent as evident by the draft.

[MafiaMan]

Ok, we all know that they don't want just Minnesota kids cause they took Irmen who is a ND boy!

If you've paid any attention to the late-season call-ups and pre-season rosters over the past several years, you would notice that the Wild love to call up the local kids and former Gopher greats in an effort to fill the seats at the X for late-season or pre-season games.

[Southernmn]

If you've paid any attention to the late-season call-ups and pre-season rosters over the past several years, you would notice that the Wild love to call up the local kids and former Gopher greats in an effort to fill the seats at the X for late-season or pre-season games.

The Wild have a problem filling the X ??

[redwing77]

The Wild have a problem filling the X ??

Well, like the Cubs of MLB, the Wild's product and performance don't match up with the attendance. If the Wild didn't have such a strong fan base, they'd realize that the Wild consistently are mediocre and, hence, would stop coming until the Wild front office gives them a reason to come. Maybe it's still the newness of the Wild franchise? I don't know. We'll find out next season as the Wild becomes one of the few teams whose performance dropped in the past year but still found a way to raise ticket prices.

[Sioux-cia]

Well, like the Cubs of MLB, the Wild's product and performance don't match up with the attendance. If the Wild didn't have such a strong fan base, they'd realize that the Wild consistently are mediocre and, hence, would stop coming until the Wild front office gives them a reason to come. Maybe it's still the newness of the Wild franchise? I don't know. We'll find out next season as the Wild becomes one of the few teams whose performance dropped in the past year but still found a way to raise ticket prices.

Hey, hey now!!! There is a BIG difference in the Cubs and Wilds attendance. Neither team does well but in the case of the Cubs the stadium is generally sold out regardless of their play!!!!

[siouxnami]

Well, like the Cubs of MLB, the Wild's product and performance don't match up with the attendance. If the Wild didn't have such a strong fan base, they'd realize that the Wild consistently are mediocre and, hence, would stop coming until the Wild front office gives them a reason to come. Maybe it's still the newness of the Wild franchise? I don't know. We'll find out next season as the Wild becomes one of the few teams whose performance dropped in the past year but still found a way to raise ticket prices.

So don't attend UND Hockey games if they have a bad season? That way you'll be a good fan.

[Southernmn]

Hey, hey now!!! There is a BIG difference in the Cubs and Wilds attendance. Neither team does well but in the case of the Cubs the stadium is generally sold out regardless of their play!!!!

The Wild have been sold out EVERY home game they have ever played.

I agree that based on their performance on the ice, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I am not sure why they keep pulling people in while putting a sub par product on the ice year after year. Every other franchise in town gets ripped for not spending money on talent, but for reasons I don't understand, the Wild got a pass on this.

[tnt]

Say what you want about Don Cherry's antics, but he is a major supporter of the USA and the need for Canada as a country to support their neighbors, not only in the sporting venue, but also in the policy realm.

He took the Canadian fans to task for cheering for Russia against the U.S. in the World Junior tournament, and has always said that Canada should be supporting their neighbor with troops if necessary in foreign policy. He always points out what the U.S. has done and would do for Canada. Yes, he goes too far on HNIC, but he is paid to be a bit controversial. As far as fighting goes, there are many points that I agree with him, it sure cleans up the stickwork, and you don't see near the checking from behind hits that you see in college.

[747Guy]

Cherry's insight is second only to his fashion sense....

What a knob! Have another Molson and shut up..eh!

[Vegas]

Say what you want about Don Cherry's antics, but he is a major supporter of the USA and the need for Canada as a country to support their neighbors, not only in the sporting venue, but also in the policy realm.

He took the Canadian fans to task for cheering for Russia against the U.S. in the World Junior tournament, and has always said that Canada should be supporting their neighbor with troops if necessary in foreign policy. He always points out what the U.S. has done and would do for Canada. Yes, he goes too far on HNIC, but he is paid to be a bit controversial. As far as fighting goes, there are many points that I agree with him, it sure cleans up the stickwork, and you don't see near the checking from behind hits that you see in college.

For the most part hockey people in Canada pay little attention to what Cherry actually has to say about the game tactically. After all he set a record for the most futile CHL team in the History of Major Junior Hockey.

He is seen as a character to add a little colour to the game. Kind of like that little old grandmother in the stands who throws out F-Bombs to the opposition and then goes home and makes everyone tea and cookies.

Cherry played when there was little real science involved in the game. He was coached by Eddie Shore which probably says it all.

[Southernmn]

Perhaps they're afraid history might repeat itself if the Wild were to play in front of as many empty seats as the Stars once played in front of at the old Met Center. I think they're just grateful to have been given another chance to support an NHL franchise, and they don't want to screw it up as badly as they did the last time around.

Stars never had an attendance problem either, until Mr. Green announced he was moving the team.

Other factors played into that, season tickets, legal issues, etc.

[puck swami]

Cherry is an entertainer first and foremost - a true bombastic anomaly in a nation full of mostly quiet people who usually don't like to ruffle feathers. His nationalism schtick is a key part of his entertainment offering. He is one of the few distictly Canadian voices who breaks through to everyday Canadians -- he says things most Canadians often feel but won't say, and that's why he is unique.

Lot's of people in Canada remember when the NHL players and management were 100% Canadian. With the advent of globalization of hockey, those numbers can only fall, as European and American hockey continue to grow. Cherry's rants are emblematic of the mixture of Canadian pride and fear.

[Slap Shot]

Perhaps they're afraid history might repeat itself if the Wild were to play in front of as many empty seats as the Stars once played in front of at the old Met Center. I think they're just grateful to have been given another chance to support an NHL franchise, and they don't want to screw it up as badly as they did the last time around.

Attendance wasn't a problem before Norm Sucks Green.