Reason to go DI

[Cratter]

Very true. But with the Ralph and the Betty as recruiting tools, there is no reason that UND couldn't accomplish the same thing.

A team that is below .500 (in an average Division 2 conference) is going to win a March Madness game?

Long Long Long Long Way to go. Winning your current conference should be first (NCC). Wait that hasn't happened for over a decade.

[soohockey15]

I don't think I'd say by far...I don't even think I'd say its the most popular. Hockey certainly is the most popular in the east, but its just another sport in the west. And basketball is huge in the class B schools...basketball is the most popular winter sport in the state...sorry Dave

[Hansel]

Very true, but it is interesting that one of the rumored candidates to replace Glas within the hopefully not-too-distant-future is Montana assistant and ex-Jamestown College head coach Brad Huse. link.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Huse named head coach at Montana St it the not so distant future

[dlsiouxfan]

Bouncey-ball is pretty much insignificant at UND anyways. They could drop the program and few people would notice or care. I know I wouldn't. Hockey and football are the sports that UND fans are passionate about. Even if the bouncey-ball team was good they would always be second fiddle to the hockey team. Hockey is by far the #1 winter sport in North Dakota. Everybody knows that except for the Bison zealots who think that just because they don't have a team hockey isn't a real sport.

As much as you may despise it basketball is a bigger sport on the national level and within the state of North Dakota than hockey ever will be. A successful D-I mid- major basketball program at either UND or ndsu would be a bigger draw than our hockey program.

[dakotadan]

A team that is below .500 (in an average Division 2 conference) is going to win a March Madness game?

Long Long Long Long Way to go. Winning your current conference should be first (NCC). Wait that hasn't happened for over a decade.

Where did I ever say that this years team could win DI NCAA games? When I mentioned recruiting in my post it was pretty obvious that I was saying that there is no reason that the program couldn't grow to accomplish what Montana has.

[TheBisonator]

No doubt bouncey-ball is bigger on a national level, but not within the state. Especially not within the Red River Valley. I realize there are some small towns that don't have varsity hockey teams, and bouncey-ball is naturally going to be more popular in those towns. I get that. But most of those towns have a population of less than a thousand. Those people who make up the Class B bouncey-ball following are few and far between. Hockey is king in places like Fargo, Grand Forks, Grafton, Minot, etc... A successful mid-major program at either NDSU or UND would get more attention from ESPN than our hockey program, but the hockey program would still dominate the local headlines and draw more fans. Hockey is simply more popular than bouncey-ball in this part of the country. Take the Gophers and Badgers, for example. ESPN gives their bouncey-ball programs 100 times more exposure than the hockey teams, yet the hockey teams remain the top story in the papers at Minneapolis and Madison on a yearly basis. Bouncey-ball is always going to take a backseat to hockey in places where it gets cold enough to make outdoor ice.

Dave, I lived in the Twin Cities for 12 years, and I can tell you for a fact that your statement about Gopher hockey being more popular than Gopher b-ball is completely 100% FALSE. B-ball headlines ALWAYS trump over hockey headlines in the Star Trib, local news, etc. when it comes to the Gophers during the regular sesaon. If the b-ball team misses the postseason, then the focus will switch over to the hockey's Final Five. Other than that, when the two are playing at the same time, the hockey team will NEVER, EVER get top billing over the basketball team.

[NDSU grad]

No doubt bouncey-ball is bigger on a national level, but not within the state. Especially not within the Red River Valley. I realize there are some small towns that don't have varsity hockey teams, and bouncey-ball is naturally going to be more popular in those towns. I get that. But most of those towns have a population of less than a thousand. Those people who make up the Class B bouncey-ball following are few and far between. Hockey is king in places like Fargo, Grand Forks, Grafton, Minot, etc... A successful mid-major program at either NDSU or UND would get more attention from ESPN than our hockey program, but the hockey program would still dominate the local headlines and draw more fans. Hockey is simply more popular than bouncey-ball in this part of the country. Take the Gophers and Badgers, for example. ESPN gives their bouncey-ball programs 100 times more exposure than the hockey teams, yet the hockey teams remain the top story in the papers at Minneapolis and Madison on a yearly basis. Bouncey-ball is always going to take a backseat to hockey in places where it gets cold enough to make outdoor ice.

High school bball is quite a bit more popular than hockey in Minot. I don't really follow high school sports in Fargo right now so I can't really attest as to which is more popular here. I think Grand Forks is really the only town in ND that you could call a hockey town.

[FargoBison]

High school bball is quite a bit more popular than hockey in Minot. I don't really follow high school sports in Fargo right now so I can't really attest as to which is more popular here. I think Grand Forks is really the only town in ND that you could call a hockey town.

Fargo is not a hockey town all but one of the high schools favors basketball over hockey. North is a basketball school so are Shanely and West Fargo. Oak Grove has no hockey and I doubt it will ever have a team. That leaves just South and hockey is popular there but it is at the very most level with basketball. The only schools that is purely a hockey school is Moorhead.

[soohockey15]

Hockey is way more popular than bouncey-ball at South High School. Elementary school aged kids living in the South school district dream of one day playing hockey for the Bruins. Having an 8 year-old and a 10 year-old, I know this firsthand. My kids and almost all of their friends are hockey players. My kids don't even know anybody who plays bouncey-ball.

That's what FargoBison implied...but basketball is bigger at all the other high schools in Fargo/West Fargo. Basketball is king in every city not named Grand Forks or Grafton. It's huge out west, just look at the attendance at the State B tourney. This is an arguement you cannot win, Dave. If hockey was the most popular sport in the state, east teams wouldn't be sweeping the first round of the state tournament every year.

[FargoBison]

Well, Dave I have lived in Fargo my entire life and I graduated from South High just a few years ago and I never once dreamed of playing hockey for Fargo South High but I did dream of playing basketball and football. Fargo South is not a hockey school but hockey is popular. I went there and I still attend a few games every now and I have never seen a packed colusium but I have seen a packed Fargo Civic to watch Norh and South play in hoops. I also wouldn't call South a basketball school either but I think basketball popularity is bigger then hockey, the gap is closing though. Dave you may claim to know first hand but I actually do and unlike you I have no bias on this topic.

[The Sicatoka]

A successful D-I mid- major basketball program at either UND or ndsu would be a bigger draw than our hockey program.

Uh, in a word, no.

From the NCAA's web site:

UND home average hockey attendance (2003-04): 10870

2005 NCAA mens basketball teams with better home average attendance? Just 33 of 326 of them (10%).

PS - Minnesota mens BB average in 2005: #35, 10566.

[FargoBison]

Uh, in a word, no.

From the NCAA's web site:

UND home average hockey attendance (2003-04): 10870

2005 NCAA mens basketball teams with better home average attendance? Just 33 of 326 of them (10%).

PS - Minnesota mens BB average in 2005: #35, 10566.

UND hockey has always had the niche in the local sports market as being the only DI team and I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if NDSU was to become a mid-major basketball power and if it would impact UND hockey in anyway. Basketball is quite popular in this area and I think it would draw alot of media exposure and fans.

[SiouxMD]

* sigh *

Let me know who wins...

[soohockey15]

Actually, he implied that hockey is equal to bouncey-ball at South (which is a load of crap). The Class B tourney is big because the small towns that partipate in Class B have nothing else going on. In towns that have both hockey and bouney-ball at the varsity level, hockey is king for the most part. This can change periodically if a school happens to have a bouncey-ball team that is successful at a time when the hockey team is going through a dry spell, but for the most part high school kids favor hockey if given a choice between the two. They don't have a choice at the Class B level, which explains why those people are so into bouncey-ball like I already stated. The fact of the matter is that D1 bouncey-ball at UND and NDSU combined would not equal UND hockey in terms of fan support and local media coverage.

Are you serious? There are 4 schools in the state that hockey is more popular than basketball, and one of them (Grafton) doesn't have a class A basketball team. South, Central and Red River are the only schools where that is true.

[bincitysioux]

UND hockey has always had the niche in the local sports market as being the only DI team and I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if NDSU was to become a mid-major basketball power and if it would impact UND hockey in anyway. Basketball is quite popular in this area and I think it would draw alot of media exposure and fans.

Without trying to come off as arrogant or smacky, I don't think that it would be interesting at all. Average DI basketball attendance in 2004-05 was 5,095. Now let's define "successful DI mid-major". I would say that Gonzaga is the epitomy of a consistent, successful "mid-major" program. They draw an even 6,000 per game. Granted, they sell out every game, so it is unclear of their total possible drawing potential if they played in a bigger home arena. However, NDSU basketball, or UND basketball for that matter (if they go DI) is long, long, long ways off from being the caliber of Gonzaga. So, UND Hockey draws double of what the average DI basketball program does, and nearly double of what undisputedly is the most successful and high-profile mid-major basketball program in all of college basketball. Furthermore, UND Hockey draws better than all but 32 of the 326 DI basketball programs in the nation. The popularity of hockey in this region is further exemplified by Sicatoka's post about Gopher basketball attendance, keeping in mind that the Big 10 conference is the oldest conference in country, and a conference made up of some of the largest schools in the country with enormous fan bases. Only six of the eleven Big Ten basketball programs outdraw UND hockey. The three highest drawing programs in college hockey are Wisconsin, North Dakota, and Minnesota. That alone makes me think that hockey must be pretty damn popular in this region of the country. No "mid-major" basketball program could ever touch UND Hockey.

[bincitysioux]

Very true. But with the Ralph and the Betty as recruiting tools, there is no reason that UND couldn't accomplish the same thing. Montana won the Big Sky tournament in an evening game on ESPN and followed it up with a good win in the NCAA tournament. Great exposure. I will be cheering for them.

I think that we could be amazed at what this simple statement could do for UND Men's Basketball recruiting after a recruit walks out out of the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center down the hall and into the Ralph Engelstad Arena:

"You could be playing Division I college basketball in this building."

[SiouxMD]

I think that we could be amazed at what this simple statement could do for UND Men's Basketball recruiting after a recruit walks out out of the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center down the hall and into the Ralph Engelstad Arena:

"You could be playing Division I college basketball in this building."

[FargoBison]

bincity, I think your right in saying that a successful mid-major basketball program at NDSU probably won't draw that many fans away from UND hockey but I do think UND hockey would take hit in the media. Just imagine for a second if NDSU made a run in the big dance like Bradley or Wichita State has made this year and just imagine all of the media attention NDSU would be getting both nationally and regionally. You are right in saying NDSU will never be a Gonzaga but I don't see why NDSU couldn't be a Creighton or Northen Iowa. What Miles has done so far is amazing and I really can't wait to see what happens when he is given a better facitlity and more funding.

[BisonMav]

PS - Minnesota mens BB average in 2005: #35, 10566.

How does Minnesota's basketball attendence compare to hockey when both programs are having a good year?

[SiouxMD]

How does Minnesota's basketball attendence compare to hockey when both programs are having a good year?

NCAA DI MBB - Attendance 1993-2005

NCAA DI MHockey - Attendance 1998-2004

[FargoBison]

Perhaps you aren't in touch with the future of South High as well as I am. I know firsthand that my kids and pretty much all of their friends are hockey players. Of all those kids who play hockey, some of them might also play baseball and/or football. None of them play bouncey-ball. I don't even know of any youth bouncey-ball leagues in Fargo. That isn't personal bias on my part, I'm merely stating what I know to be facts. Perhaps the future of South High is going more towards hockey and away from bouncey-ball. Either that or else it's always been that way and you, preferring bouncey-ball to hockey, just happened to be one of the rare exceptions to the rule. Bouncey-ball is the winter sport of choice in places where it does not get cold enough to make outdoor ice. To make it out to be anything more than that just isn't accurate.

A lot of kids make friends with kids they play sports with so really I am not suprised that most of your kids friends play hockey and not basketballl. From what I read it is obivious you love hockey and well since the two sports go on at the same time I am pretty sure your blind to most youth basketball programs and basketball in general in this great city, I'll educate you bit on it. Most kids start out playing basketball in the YMCA youth leagues and for the most part these leagues are made up of kids with varying level skills and it isn't too competitve since it is based on everybody having fun. By the time kids start hitting grades 6 and 7 traveling teams become the norm and there are hundreds of traveling tournies throughtout the region. By 8th grade kids are playing for both school teams and traveling teams(not at the same time). Traveling leagues are quite popular, at least they were when my brother was in them(he is 17) and I think there were at least 5 teams in the town that his team usually competed against. I highly doubt I was a rare exception to the rule regarding me playing basketball instead of hockey becuase in my class and in my brothers class some of the best athletes played basketball and not hockey, many kids played basketball. Maybe things are changeing maybe they are not but from what I can see Fargo is definately not a hockey town and South high is not a hockey school but as I said before I wouldn't call it a basketball school either. And Dave basketball is the most popular winter sport in pretty much ever place in America, even if they can make outdoor ice.

[FargoBison]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on all but that last sentence. If you shut yourself out to local media and just eat up what ESPN shoves down your throat I can see where you might be under that illusion, but it simply is not true.

Basketball has a lot of popularity and I don't even need to watch ESPN to figure that out, traveling teams and AAU ball are big all across the country. Of course hockey has it's strongholds but basketball is big even in Minnesota. I am not saying that hockey isn't as popular but I do think it is crazy to think that basketball loses it's following and is taken over by hockey in places that can make outdoor ice. Both sports are quite popular in this region and I really don't know how you could say one dominates the other.

[bincitysioux]

Back on topic.........

Steve Hallstrom reported on WDAY @ 6:00 tonight that the Bison will be playing the Gophers in football on October 21, 2006 at the Metrodome. A third year transitional school playing our region's most visible Big 10 school, in the nation's most visible sport. Guarantee of $300,000.

That sounds like a reason to go DI to me............

http://www.wday.com/ (click on 6:00 p.m. newscast)

[johnnyroyale]

Congratulations to the Bison. I will definately be there for the game and let's hope they keep the score respectable. With the 2006 & 2007 Bison-Gopher games the NDSU athletic dept will be raking in excess of half a million dollars. Not to mention the exposure NDSU will be getting. DaveK, I realize you're a big UND fan but why would you wish the Gophs to run up the score on NDSU? Jealousy, perhaps? Remember, people said this when NDSU went to play Montana. They also said it this year when we went to play Wisconsin. Now I'm not naive enough to guarantee a NDSU victory over UM this year but that's why the games are played. It's "fans" like yourself who only want to compete in sports in which you think you hae a chance of winning (hockey, in DaveK's case) while not giving the rest of the programs a chance. It's that kind of thinking that has you mired in DII. Enjoy it. Remember, NDSU is still in transition and there's a very good chance the Gophs will indeed pummel them in FB. But hey, everybody has to start somewhere, right? Say what you will, I think NDSU should be commended for scheduling Minnesota. With yet another I-A (Ball State) this year as well, the rest of their schedule isn't too shabby either.

[star2city]

Getting back on topic, this article gives an explanation of why mid-majors have been doing well in men's basketball, and why this trend is likely to continue. All the more reason why UND, as a (low) mid-major DI, needs to get a coach who is a fundamentally sound basketball tactician:

Too often, the coaches with the big jobs look good in a suit, smile nice for the camera and either played for or assisted under a famous coach. But they can't coach their way out of a paper bag. Getting a big school job is about who you know, not what you know, and it is costing some schools, and not just in Armani clothing budgets.

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