Focus on the real Native American problems

[Diggler]

A better way to ask that question is what do you think FSU, WMU, and Utah are doing that UND is not? Anything or is it really just a difference of opinion on nicknames among Chippewa/Seminole/any tribe that supports a nickname and Sioux? There is nothing UND can ever do to make Sioux happy if UND keeps the name. Sioux people will never accept the name being used while other tribes will. If so, why do you think that is?

[GrahamKracker]

sioux people dont support whom??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

where have you been, under a rock? the Sioux Tribes do not support UND and the use of UND's name/logo.

[HockeyMom]

I don't hate white people.

Based on your posts on this board, yes you do.

I even have white friends.

That's just an odd statement. But, congratulations, none the less. I'm glad that you group your friends into color catagories. The friends that I have aren't color-coded into catagories they're just my friends.

[siouxpersport]

I applaude you hockeymom for displaying exactly what is wrong with grahamkracker's posts. To point out that you have "white" friends is just that...pointing out that you have white friends... showing that you do infact see "color" and probably view and categorize your friends as just that...colored. If I was your friend I hope you wouldn't categorize me as white and a women...that I could be a friend no matter what I looked like.

[GrahamKracker]

A better way to ask that question is what do you think FSU, WMU, and Utah are doing that UND is not? Anything or is it really just a difference of opinion among Chippewa, Seminole and Sioux and there is nothing UND can ever do.

[GrahamKracker]

Based on your posts on this board, yes you do.

That's just an odd statement. But, congratulations, none the less. I'm glad that you group your friends into color catagories. The friends that I have aren't color-coded into catagories they're just my friends.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm making a mockery of things I've read on this board. duh.....

[Slamdance]

I've been trolling here for a while. The last time I posted I was at another location and I was looking for help in TV coverage of Sioux hockey out here on the left coast.

As a GF native (a UND scholarship recipient, although I chose the Navy) and Sioux fan, I support keeping the logo and name. If the name is removed, I agree with some others here to not have a name or logo, just remain "North Dakota", and let the fans carry the tradition.

My question for GrahamKracker is:

What solution are you proposing?

I have seen some well written questions written to you and KnowThe Facts and have yet to see you (or KTF) reply WITHOUT sarcasm or insults somewhere in the body of your response. How is that constructive or helpful?

Please show me how UND is using the name "Sioux" in "hostile and abusive manner" and FSU, Utah, and Central Michigan are not.

Please show me how removing/changing the name will help in changing the poor conditions of the reservations.

Why is it such a big deal? I really want to understand your point of view, because I don't get it.

peace

[HockeyMom]

I'm making a mockery of things I've read on this board.  duh.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what you are saying is that if I said "I even have Indian friends" and someone pointed out to me that I was catagorizing my friends by their skin color, as I just did to you. I be able to say what you just said above and everthing would be okay? Highly unlikely. It doesn't work for me, it doesn't work for you.

You're not making a mockery you're digging yourself a bigger hole everytime you open your mouth.

[iramurphy]

[GrahamKracker]

I've been trolling here for a while.  The last time I posted I was at another location and I was looking for help in TV coverage of Sioux hockey out here on the left coast. 

As a GF native (a UND scholarship recipient, although I chose the Navy) and Sioux fan, I support keeping the logo and name.  If the name is removed, I agree with some others here to not have a name or logo, just remain "North Dakota", and let the fans carry the tradition. 

My question for GrahamKracker is: 

What solution are you proposing? 

I have seen some well written questions written to you and KnowThe Facts and have yet to see you (or KTF) reply WITHOUT sarcasm or insults somewhere in the body of your response.  How is that constructive or helpful? 

Please show me how UND is using the name "Sioux" in "hostile and abusive manner" and FSU, Utah, and Central Michigan are not. 

Please show me how removing/changing the name will help in changing the poor conditions of the reservations. 

Why is it such a big deal?  I really want to understand your point of view, because I don't get it. 

peace

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't ever recall saying that removing the name would improve reservation life. It won't. But what it will do is remove some of the stereotypes people have of my people, stereotypes that hurt.

Do you know the one of the Greatest Oxymorons to this entire thing? "FIGHTING Sioux" is meant to be warlike and feared by all, killing buffalo everywhere they went. Yet the translation to Lakota is "Friend or ally", and Wolakota translates to "Peace", so which is is friend or fighter?

Because of this Logo/name, when people think of Sioux, they think of fighting. Not true. Yes we did fight, when we had to. But didn't all civilizations? I think you could find something honorable about every culture and society, not just the Sioux.

[GrahamKracker]

[GrahamKracker]

[siouxpersport]

[HockeyMom]

If I had a quarter for everytime a person told me:

A. they have an Indian friend

B. their great great grandmothers brothers son-in-law is 1/8th Indian

C. How they did work with Indians/on reservations

D. Attended a Powwow and learned so much

E.  Learned so much about my people by the Indian dancers at a hockey game

F.  Feel sorry for what their ancestors did to my ancestors

.....I would be one rich person.

I haven't said one of those things to you. So why are you telling me if you had a quarter for everytime you heard them you'd be rich? Does that somehow justify that it's okay for you to hate white people. Really the only thing that you are saying by posting that is that white people are stupid because they have said those things to you.

Maybe not you Hockeymom because you are so perfect.  Your children know everything about the Sioux because you watch hockey.  Your children understand that Minnesota is actually a Lakota word meaning mni sota.  No, I forgot you are culturally sensitive.

There you go again, not winning the battle so you resort to the only thing you know how to do-cut people down.

I'm not perfect. Never said I was. No one can be perfect like you. I never said my children know everything about the Sioux.

Cultural sensitivity. Maybe that's something that you should look into. Instead of teaching people about your culture, you insult them and say they are stupid because they don't know absolutely everything about your culture.

I've already taught my children that they should not judge people on things that are beyond their control, such as race, sex and so on.

[BIGSIOUX]

GK,

I am confused, you try to deflect the history of YOUR people by saying how they were peaceful and friendly, yet you BRAG about their conquests/battles. You are proud of the way your people fought, and rightfully so. That is how UND by using the fighting sioux as a team name, is bringing honor to the sioux. It is honoring for someone to remember valiant and brave acts, as UND is by recognizing that the actions of Sioux people many years ago were indeed that.

Your culture does not revolve around money? Wasn't more than a decade ago every reservation in the state was lining up to build a casino. Is that because NA really love video poker? It is about the $$, so is the NCAA. I will say you do not need money to have a rich life, but for you to say something so ignorantly is doing dis-service to your own level of intelligence.

[choyt3]

If I had a quarter for everytime a person told me:

A. they have an Indian friend

B. their great great grandmothers brothers son-in-law is 1/8th Indian

C. How they did work with Indians/on reservations

D. Attended a Powwow and learned so much

E.  Learned so much about my people by the Indian dancers at a hockey game

F.  Feel sorry for what their ancestors did to my ancestors

.....I would be one rich person.

Maybe not you Hockeymom because you are so perfect.  Your children know everything about the Sioux because you watch hockey.  Your children understand that Minnesota is actually a Lakota word meaning mni sota.  No, I forgot you are culturally sensitive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cripes. Are you all there?

[Sioux-cia]

Kracker, I am formally calling you out. You so are a bigot. I actually had a fleeting thought that you probably put your children up for adoption when you posted your wife was half white!

I have spend so much time writing about my family history and their accomplishments, ad nauseum, because of your whining about how mistreated your people are, how there are no oppportuntites for you because your not white, how mommy and daddy didn't finance your education or buy you a car, how people threaten you because your American Indian, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

If fourteen Mexican-American siblings who were orphaned when the youngest was months old and the oldest wasn't quite 21 could accomplish what they did with their lives why can't you? Sioux is not a derogatory word. My family members were not respectfully referred to as Mexican American but other degrading terms. I'm not going to repeat what I already have about my proud heritage and wonderful family. You choose to ignore and belittle all I've written about them and have conveniently taken information out of context and attempted to attack me with your distortions. Tell me about your families' accomplishments.

1. How many of your children/siblings/cousins have attended college?

2. How many of your children/siblings/cousins have jobs?

3. How many of your children/siblings/cousins are economically stable>not

counting government assistance?

4. How many of your children/siblings/cousins can enter any room and know

they belong because they were brought up with pride in who and what they

are, not who and what someone else says they are?

5. How many of your children/siblings/counsins know that they are more than

American Indian?

6. How many of your children/siblings/cousins speak and understand their

native language?

7. How many of your children/siblings/cousins believe that there is more to

life in addition to being Lakota/Nakota/Dakota?

8. How has the name Sioux kept you from accomplishing your goals?

9. How has the name Sioux hurt your children?

10. How has the name Sioux made you less of a person?

11. Where is it written that the only Sioux are Lakota/Nakota/Dakota?

12. What obstacles have your children/siblings/cousins hurdled to achieve your

dreams and goals?

Come on Krack, do a little bragging of your own. Answer the questions.

You think because the rest of us don't live on reservations we have lost our sense of heritage, of where we come from and who we are. Your wrong. My ma was the last of those fourteen siblings who accomplished great things with their lives. I have pictures of the family gathering after her burial. Want to see them? What you would see is a bunch of 'brown sisters and brothers', eating Mexican food made by the women folk, children running all over the place and going to the nearest adult for a hug or a kiss when they felt the need, you would see traditional dress, see people swaying to traditional music, 'brown brothers and sisters' celebrating the life of the last matriach of the family. So don't give us your American Indians are the only ones with an intact culture because they live on reservations BS. The rest of us, the white, black, brown, yellow, purple and green ones, have kept our cultures intact off the tit. Try it.

You keep repeating that we're not Sioux. Your wrong. I am a Sioux. I am a Sioux because the students and athletes of the University that I graduated from

are known as the Sioux. So in addition to all the other things I am, I am a Fighting Sioux and a Fighting Sioux I will be for life. And every student before me, every student after me, every athlete, every fan of UND athletics are Fighting Sioux. Deal with it!

[dagies]

First of all, have you been to the Utes and Chippewas's websites?  Their logo is a big Letter.  They have nothing to do with Indian images (okay, so there is a couple feathers on the Ute's logo, but there is no "indian").

  As for FSU,  I can't tell you because I'm not a seminole.  But they have the backing of the Seminole tribe. 

Good. So we can keep the name and do away with the logo. That's all that's necessary? FSU has an actual mascot. Isn't that a bit more caricaturish than our logo. Yet the Seminoles actually support FSU.

  You know, one big difference in the Seminoles and the Sioux are that for every Seminole "traditional" I bet you can find 20 "traditional" Lakota/Dakota/Nakota people.  You have to remember that the Seminole People have been living with/around Non Seminoles for over 250 years.  the Interaction between the Whites and L/D/N only started in the mid 1800's, less than a 100 years ago, some, not all, of my people still lived in tipis, and I know some elders who don't even speak English.

So, potentially, the Seminoles are just more......progressive?

  Also check this out

Seminole support

"FSU administrators also regularly travel to Seminole reservations to recruit students to be "Seminole Scholars." Wetherell established the scholarships, which pay 80 percent of a student's tuition. Because of his efforts, Florida State will have four new Seminole students this fall, the most ever enrolled at one time. They will join four Seminole students currently enrolled. Three other Seminole students are alumni."

  Give the Seminoles time.  I bet if they had more than 11 students on campus they would be resisting the mascot/name more.  UND should have picked a tribe that sold out, not the Sioux.  Sheesh, the Sioux are the only ones who defeated the Army on U.S. soil.  The Sioux are the ones who came within inches of making Lewis and Clark unsuccessful on their voyage.  The Sioux are still alive.  Maka sitomni, lakol wicokanki otehikelo.  Even with the adversity we face, we will continue to grow, continue to become educated, and continue to preserve our way of life, and part of that way of life is to do away with entities that don't represent who we are, like the UND name/logo.  Hetche to.

All right. I can at least understand the last part. But I find it hard to believe that having more Seminole students would actually change how the Seminole tribe looks at the use of the name. You insinuate that it takes educated American Indians to understand the issue. No, I think anyone can recognize racism and oppression when they feel it. I think somewhere in past discussions on this board it was said that the polls that showed the majority of American Indians had no issue with these nicknames were not an accurate reflection because those polls included so many Indians who didn't live on reservations. Seems like the more people understand the WHOLE culture of the country they live in, the better they get along.

[KnowtheFacts]

sorry to jump into the fray here....

Sioux-cia, I was wondering if you had a good recipe for Carnitas? Those are the best and I wanted to know how to make them on my own since GF restaurants don't have them. (not that their mexican food is that great anyway).

thanks. (just asking since you were talking about homemade mexican cooking and I havent had dinner yet)

[Sioux-cia]

sorry to jump into the fray here.... 

Sioux-cia, I was wondering if you had a good recipe for Carnitas?  Those are the best and I wanted to know how to make them on my own since GF restaurants don't have them.  (not that their mexican food is that great anyway).

thanks. (just asking since you were talking about homemade mexican cooking and I havent had dinner yet)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry. We don't use recipes. It's all a little of this, a little of that, what's on hand, how much you want to make and who you take seriously.

[engelbunny]

Sorry.  We don't use recipes.  It's all a little of this, a little of that, what's on hand, how much you want to make and who you take seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was awesome.

[Taz Boy]

Sorry.  We don't use recipes.  It's all a little of this, a little of that, what's on hand, how much you want to make and who you take seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That was sweet. Without question a nicely done rhetorical "su-fi".

taz digs it

[GrahamKracker]

[GrahamKracker]

GK,

I am confused, you try to deflect the history of YOUR people by saying how they were peaceful and friendly, yet you BRAG about their conquests/battles.  You are proud of the way your people fought, and rightfully so.  That is how UND by using the fighting sioux as a team name, is bringing honor to the sioux.  It is honoring for someone to remember valiant and brave acts, as UND is by recognizing that the actions of Sioux people many years ago were indeed that.

Your culture does not revolve around money? Wasn't more than a decade ago every reservation in the state was lining up to build a casino.  Is that because NA really love video poker? It is about the $$, so is the NCAA.  I will say you do not need money to have a rich life, but for you to say something so ignorantly is doing dis-service to your own level of intelligence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A) How do a bunch of white people chasing around a puck "honor" my people?

B) Casinos were an option because we of our legal right to open casinos. If "other" races could open casinos, they would in a heartbeat.

C) How are we making money off of the NCAA? please answer that.....

[GrahamKracker]

Kracker, I am formally calling you out.  You so are a bigot. I actually had a fleeting thought that you probably put your children up for adoption when you posted your wife was half white!

I have spend so much time writing about my family history and their accomplishments, ad nauseum, because of your whining about how mistreated your people are, how there are no oppportuntites for you because your not white, how mommy and daddy didn't finance your education or buy you a car, how people threaten you because your American Indian, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 

If fourteen Mexican-American siblings who were orphaned when the youngest was months old and the oldest wasn't quite 21 could accomplish what they did with their lives why can't you?  Sioux is not a derogatory word.  My family members were not respectfully referred to as Mexican American but other degrading terms.  I'm not going to repeat what I already have about my proud heritage and wonderful family.  You choose to ignore and belittle all I've written about them and have conveniently taken information out of context and attempted to attack me with your distortions.  Tell me about your families' accomplishments. 

1.  How many of your children/siblings/cousins have attended college?

2.  How many of your children/siblings/cousins have jobs?

3.  How many of your children/siblings/cousins are economically stable>not 

    counting government assistance?

4.  How many of your children/siblings/cousins can enter any room and know

    they belong because they were brought up with pride in who and what they

    are, not who and what someone else says they are?

5.  How many of your children/siblings/counsins know that they are more than

    American Indian?

6.  How many of your children/siblings/cousins speak and understand their

    native language?

7.  How many of your children/siblings/cousins believe that there is more to 

    life in addition to being Lakota/Nakota/Dakota?

8.  How has the name Sioux kept you from accomplishing your goals?

9.  How has the name Sioux hurt your children?

10. How has the name Sioux made you less of a person?

11. Where is it written that the only Sioux are Lakota/Nakota/Dakota?

12. What obstacles have your children/siblings/cousins hurdled to achieve your

      dreams and goals?

Come on Krack, do a little bragging of your own. Answer the questions.

You think because the rest of us don't live on reservations we have lost our sense of heritage, of where we come from and who we are.  Your wrong.  My ma was the last of those fourteen siblings who accomplished great things with their lives.  I have pictures of the family gathering after her burial.  Want to see them? What you would see is a bunch of 'brown sisters and brothers', eating Mexican food made by the women folk, children running all over the place and going to the nearest adult for a hug or a kiss when they felt the need, you would see traditional dress, see people swaying to traditional music, 'brown brothers and sisters' celebrating the life of the last matriach of the family.  So don't give us your American Indians are the only ones with an intact culture because they live on reservations BS.  The rest of us, the white, black, brown, yellow, purple and green ones, have kept our cultures intact off the tit.  Try it.

You keep repeating that we're not Sioux.  Your wrong.  I am a Sioux.  I am a Sioux because the students and athletes of the University that I graduated from

are known as the Sioux.  So in addition to all the other things I am, I am a Fighting Sioux and a Fighting Sioux I will be for life.  And every student before me, every student after me, every athlete, every fan of UND athletics are Fighting Sioux. Deal with it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait, I thought you said you were Mexican?