Midwestern State University

[GrahamKracker]

Midwestern State University

A mascot committee has been appointed by Dr. Jesse W. Rogers, president of Midwestern State University, to address the subject of the NCAA

[Mad Man]

Come on, you know you wouldn't support this. How can you support a committee that ignores the opinions of the Native American contingency?

The committee is chaired by Keith Lamb, associate vice president for student affairs. Other committee members include Mac W. Cannedy, Jr., chairperson of the MSU Board of Regents; Pat Haywood, member of the MSU Board of Regents; Debbie Barrow, executive assistant to the president of the university; Janus Buss, director of public information and marketing; Sammy Crutcher, president of the MClub; Howard Farrell, vice president for university advancement and student affairs; Venera Flores, senior woman administrator and head women

[GrahamKracker]

Come on, you know you wouldn't support this.  How can you support a committee that ignores the opinions of the Native American contingency? 

[redwing77]

[Blackheart]

[redwing77]

[Goon]

                                                                                          9/2/05 

The Sioux nation doesn't want your "honor" anymore.  So please quit "honoring" us because we came to this campus to get an education, not to discuss the FS name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[sucka]

The Sioux nation doesn't want your "honor" anymore.  So please quit "honoring" us because we came to this campus to get an education, not to discuss the FS name.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doesn't appear that you are here for an education. I have seen hundreds of posts from you in the last 3 days. Have you been going to class or studying? I find it awfully hard to believe that you are here to get your education when you are on this message board replying to every thread.

[dagies]

.....we came to this campus to get an education, not to discuss the FS name.

There's a simple solution to this and you know it. Quit looking for misplaced victimization and hit the books.

[redwing77]

There's a simple solution to this and you know it. Quit looking for misplaced victimization and hit the books.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That'd be the thing wouldn't it?

[CoteauRinkRat]

There's a simple solution to this and you know it. Quit looking for misplaced victimization and hit the books.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah right, that would be like telling Lucy Ganje to concentrate on her job, which is teaching.

[HockeyMom]

I think somebody should have hit the books 16 semesters ago.

[Sioux-cia]

I think somebody should have hit the books 16 semesters ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now I wonder who that could be?

[LeftyZL]

To me, the reason it's not as easy as this case you are pointing out to everyone here on this board is the simple fact that the NCAA is trying to push members of its organization around. I don't think anybody on here would deny that there are people on both sides of this issue, but to have an outside source(NCAA) make the decision for the University of North Dakota is what is bothering people the most. They have no right, in any such way, to force a school to change its name. This problem should be dealt with between the University and the tribes. And since the one tribe we are trying to communicate is being reluctant to that, it just makes it that much harder to come to a compromise between both parties.

Why is it so hard for everyone to sit down at a table together, hammer out a compromise/contract, and everyone be satisfied, not just a small group of people?

[Sioux-cia]

To me, the reason it's not as easy as this case you are pointing out to everyone here on this board is the simple fact that the NCAA is trying to push members of its organization around.  I don't think anybody on here would deny that there are people on both sides of this issue, but to have an outside source(NCAA) make the decision for the University of North Dakota is what is bothering people the most.  They have no right, in any such way, to force a school to change its name.  This problem should be dealt with between the University and the tribes. And since the one tribe we are trying to communicate is being reluctant to that, it just makes it that much harder to come to a compromise between both parties. 

Why is it so hard for everyone to sit down at a table together, hammer out a compromise/contract, and everyone be satisfied, not just a small group of people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The University of North Dakota has more American Indian programs, students, graduates and employment opportunities than any other institution its size and larger. Besides giving up the name what more can be compromised/contracted?The students, athletes, alumni,and community use the name with respect. Despite unproven allegations, there have been no beatings, death threats, harassment, etc. of American Indians on this campus for decades. Shamefaced, I admit it may have happened 30/40 years ago. Because of the First Amendment, we cannot control the abuse of the name by our rival athletic opponents. Those rivals are not referring to the indigenous people known as the Sioux when they yell out their demeaning epitets. They are calling our athletes and fans those names. Just as I am not referring to my Norweigen friends when I yell similar epitets at the Vikings or my butcher friends when I yell stuff at the Packers.

Dispite what GK has posted, American Indians do go to UND athletic events. I have never seen anyone harass them.

Obviously, I am pro-Sioux name. I don't believe we need to change it because the indigenous people known as the Sioux say we should. It's our name too. As a UND grad, I am now and forever be a Fighting Sioux. The Spirit Lake Tribe said we could use the name under certain conditions. If dispite what the University is already doing for American Indians, it is not doing all they promised then Spirit Lake needs to tell us what that is and UND needs to do it if they had agreed to them originally.

The Sioux that do not want us to use it have already expressed demands that they want implemented in addition to ceasing to use the name. There's no compromise there. I don't believe there ever will be. Sitting at a table to work our differences should be the way to go but I don't believe it will happen.

We should continue to support the education of the American Indians at UND because it's the right thing to do. We should keep the Fighting Sioux name and continue to use it with whatever appropriate changes the Sioux people want.

Sitting at a table to discuss compromise while great in an idealistic world, isn't going to happen because a small contingency of people like GK won't allow it to work. Our only real option is going to a real court of law.

[mikejm]

...the simple fact that the NCAA is trying to push members of its organization around.

Therein lies the rub: the NCAA is (at least in theory) an organization of its member schools. So if a school doesn't like the rules, it can either get other schools to change the rules, or failing that, quit the organization. I don't agree with the NCAA, but they are clearly the rulemaker here, and I don't think the courts will find differently.

Why is it so hard for everyone to sit down at a table together, hammer out a compromise/contract, and everyone be satisfied, not just a small group of people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The answer to this is that the issue has become one of pure emotions. There is little logic being exhibited from either side. And both groups are firmly entrenched. Tough to find compromise in that universe.

One thing that holds out some promise to me though, is Leigh Jeanotte's quote in The Forum which I posted in one of the innumberable threads here:

UND Director of American Indian Student Services Leigh Jeanotte, standing in a corner opposite Kupchella during the news conference, said the ruling is not a chance

[GrahamKracker]

Why is it so hard for everyone to sit down at a table together, hammer out a compromise/contract, and everyone be satisfied, not just a small group of people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like who? Give me a good example? The SBHE? Well we already know they can be bought. The Tribes? Well, that just happened a couple weeks ago in Bismark, yet you don't want to hear the results of that.

Believe it or not, I did bring this up to the Student Senate a couple weeks ago. I suggested a group, made up of both sides, to talk about this issues. Of course w/ the VP being the head of Sioux Crew, I don't think they wanted to hear what I had to say, but you can't say I tried.

Even though I am against the use of the name, I am willing to listed to *valid* reasons to keep the name, but I haven't heard anything that would change my mind yet.

You fight for what you believe in, and I will fight for what I believe in. If we can't sit down and "talk" about these issues, then I guess we'll just have to have other entities....like the NCAA...like the Dept of Justice, step in and defend our interests. Hetche to

[GrahamKracker]

Therein lies the rub: the NCAA is (at least in theory) an organization of its member schools. So if a school doesn't like the rules, it can either get other schools to change the rules, or failing that, quit the organization. I don't agree with the NCAA, but they are clearly the rulemaker here, and I don't think the courts will find differently.

The answer to this is that the issue has become one of pure emotions. There is little logic being exhibited from either side. And both groups are firmly entrenched. Tough to find compromise in that universe.

One thing that holds out some promise to me though, is Leigh Jeanotte's quote in The Forum which I posted in one of the innumberable threads here:

[sioux goo]

I guess we'll just have to have other entities....like the NCAA...like the Dept of Justice, step in and defend our interests

your right and the first amendment will prevail!!!!!!!!!1

[fightonsioux]

God Bless You!

[sioux goo]

Jeannotte....hmmm....I can count how many protests he has been to on no fingers. He didn't step into this fight until very recently. Not too long ago he was one that was "for" the name....I wonder what happened.

wonder how he will feel if because of all this...he no longer has a paycheck???

oooppppppssssss

[GrahamKracker]

Jeannotte....hmmm....I can count how many protests he has been to on no fingers. He didn't step into this fight until very recently. Not too long ago he was one that was "for" the name....I wonder what happened.

wonder how he will feel if  because of all this...he no longer has a paycheck???

oooppppppssssss

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol....then that's a lawsuit. But go ahead, it wouldn't bother me, but I'm sure there would be hell to pay.

By the way, are you related to Englestad? Because you sure sound like him (if I don't get my way, "I want you fired" or "I will just let my building rot" ) lol

[sioux goo]

how is there a lawsuit...when there is no program to direct...ooopppssss

[Diggler]

So the question is repeated, why is it so difficult for both sides to sit down and come to an agreement? Everyone says they'd be willing to do it, but it never gets done. Why not?

[GrahamKracker]

how is there a lawsuit...when there is no program to direct...ooopppssss

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol...then, again, that would be a loss to UND. Do you even know what your talking about? These programs (all but 3) PAY to be on campus. Maybe we should move them off campus. I'm all for that. Then we could bump up the % of the homogeneous population on campus to well over 95% white, caucasian, whatever you want to call it.

But don't bring it up to me, put your comments in the Herald, write to the Lakota Journal, or Indian Country Today so that the world knows how you truly feel instead of on a thread among the Sioux Loving people (well, not the true Sioux, anyways, because we've already established that fact) Hetche to.