Pandora's Box

[BigGame]

For hockey perhaps, but going to another school's stadium for football is completely different.  Most times in hockey you are playing on neutral ice, in football this is never true unless you're in the NC game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I said, UND couldn't UND still host playoff games as long as the logo and name are not present at the facility or on player uniforms. If that is wrong, please correct me.

If I am correct, covering up for a playoff football game wouldn't be a be deal.

[PCM]

I interpreted it as just bad editing--I think the "...any time soon" line refers to UND and the tribes, not to Kupchella and Kostelecky0--the reporter just put it in the wrong place and no one caught it....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that you're probably right.

[PCM]

Below is the NCAA policy as stated on Aug. 5. If nothing changes, here's how it will affect UND (and please correct me if I'm wrong).

1. From Aug. 5 on, any UND team participating in an NCAA playoff event will be required to cover up Sioux references and images on its uniforms. This means, for example, that if the football team makes the playoffs this season, it will be required to cover the Sioux logo badge on the front of its jerseys. That's not a big deal at this point.
   
   
2. After Feb. 1, 2006, UND will be prohibited from hosting any NCAA playoff games. This is not really a problem for hockey because after 2006, the NCAA won't allow regional playoffs on a team's home ice. It will, however, be a big problem for football because the home-field advantage has worked in UND's favor. I'm not sure how it would affect other sports such as basketball, soccer and volleyball. Perhaps someone familiar with the playoff systems for those sports can fill us in.
   
   
3. All Fighting Sioux references in Engelstad Arena must be covered when UND hosts the NCAA west regional playoffs March 24-25. Because UND was awarded the contract for this event before the policy went into effect, the NCAA will allow it to happen. But if UND makes the playoffs and the NCAA is allowed to unilaterally change the contract and enforce its policy, the Sioux hockey team won't be allowed to wear its normal uniforms and all Sioux logos and references in the arena will have to be covered.
   
   
4. After Aug. 2, 2008, UND's cheerleaders, dance teams and band will not be allowed to wear clothing with Fighting Sioux references at NCAA playoff events.
   

The presidents and chancellors who serve on the NCAA Executive Committee have adopted a new policy to prohibit NCAA colleges and universities from displaying hostile and abusive racial/ethnic/national origin mascots, nicknames or imagery at any of the 88 NCAA championships.

The policy prohibiting colleges or universities with hostile or abusive mascots, nicknames or imagery from hosting any NCAA championship competitions takes effect February 1, 2006.

Other elements of the policy approved Thursday require that institutions with hostile or abusive references must take reasonable steps to cover up those references at any predetermined NCAA championship site that has been previously awarded, effective February 1, 2006.

Institutions displaying or promoting hostile or abusive references on their mascots, cheerleaders, dance teams and band uniforms or paraphernalia are prohibited from wearing the material at NCAA championships, effective August 1, 2008.

Last, and effective immediately, institutions with student-athletes wearing uniforms or having paraphernalia with hostile or abusive references must ensure that those uniforms or paraphernalia not be worn or displayed at NCAA championship competitions.

[Goon]

The nickname debate shouldn

[Goon]

Why would you have to? For Football playoffs, covering up the name and logo wouldn't be that big of a deal.

When I was at the Football stadium last week there wasn't one Indian Head logo affixed to the building and even the banners just had the ND as the logo. Won't be hard to get Jerseys without the Indian head in the collar.

[PCM]

Apparently Koestelecky doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Its all the SBoHE decission. I believe the Resolution passed 8-0.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but it sounds as if she might be willing to revisit that decision and put it back in Kupchella's hands. However, that part of the article was so poorly written that I'm not sure exactly how to interpret her comments.

[Goon]

[*]After Feb. 1, 2006, UND will be prohibited from hosting any NCAA playoff games. This is not really a problem for hockey because after 2006, the NCAA won't allow regional playoffs on a team's home ice.playoff events.

So Cornell's whinning got this NCAA rule changed. That is unbelieveable. I guess the Gophers aren't going to get anymore home games at the regionals stacked in their favor. I thknk someone needed to remind Schaffer that it wouldn't have matter if they would have played the game in Cornells barn the fact remains that the EZAC is a weak league.

So I guess Minority rules, are the rules in the NCAA.

[PCM]

So Cornell's whinning got this NCAA rule changed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think that had anything to do with it. As I recall, the NCAA decided to move away from having playoff games on home ice before this past season.

[bisonguy]

When I was at the Football stadium last week there wasn't one Indian Head logo affixed to the building and even the banners just had the ND as the logo. Won't be hard to get Jerseys without the Indian head in the collar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What about the endzones? Isn't the 'Sioux' in the actual Magic Carpet turf system, rather than painted on?

[Goon]

I don't think that had anything to do with it. As I recall, the NCAA decided to move away from having playoff games on home ice before this past season.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, I was under the impression that the coach of Cornell was whinning about his team having to go to Minnesota and lose, and he was trying to imply his team would have been there if they had played at a neutral location. Having followed that I was under the impression that teams were unhappy at playing at campus locations and that is why the NCAA changed this rule. That being said Minnesota went into a pro Boston area and came out on top.

[Goon]

What about the endzones? Isn't the 'Sioux' in the actual Magic Carpet turf system, rather than painted on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That can be changed to read North Dakota if they have to.

[PCM]

What about the endzones? Isn't the 'Sioux' in the actual Magic Carpet turf system, rather than painted on?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's in the Alerus doesn't matter this football season because the rule affecting playoff locations doesn't go into effect until Feb. 1, 2006. The rule on wearing "hostile and abusive" names and logos on uniforms went into effect on Aug. 5. That's why the Sioux could host playoff games at the Alerus this season, but they'd have to cover the small badge logo on the front of their jerseys.

[bisonguy]

PCM,

Thanks for the clarification on the ruling.

I suppose the endzones could just be painted white in 2006, but I know the underlying Magic Carpet turf in the endzones in the Fargodome shows through the paint slightly. If the paint happened to wear off during a game, the 'Sioux' in the turf would show through

I'm sure UND will cross that bridge if or when they need to.

[The Sicatoka]

A statement in today's [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=102602

[IowaBison]

My position throughout this debate has been that in a free and democratic society, a minority of a minority should not be allowed to dictate to the majority. The [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm...59

[IowaBison]

Also, I think the University (more specifically the Development/Alumni Foundation) should use its own funds for the lawsuits.

First, I don't think you'd get money from the State.

Second, I think those involved in the suit would have much greater control.

I don't doubt for a second that the University could raise a quick million or two for legal fees.

[PCM]

I think you're a little off, PCM.

Edited September 12, 2005 by PCM

[HockeyMom]

I would me more sympathetic to the human/civil rights viewpoint if:

A) The majority of those allegedly being victimized by UND's use of the Sioux name believed that they were being harmed (they don't).

B) Those allegedly being victimized by the the Sioux name and logo didn't use the word "Sioux" to describe and indentify themselves and didn't use Sioux warrior images to portray and promote themselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can I get an AMEN?

[CoteauRinkRat]

Can I get an AMEN?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN !!!!

[PCM]

First, I don't think you'd get money from the State.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never advocated that the state give UND money to sue the NCAA. I said that the state might have good reason to join in a potential lawsuit against the NCAA.

[redwing77]

MNS on USCHO proposed the best solution:

Get the money from the Traffic Division.

[PhillySioux]

I never advocated that the state give UND money to sue the NCAA. I said that the state might have good reason to join in a potential lawsuit against the NCAA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would the state and its taxpayers have good reason to get involved in a potentail lawsuit?

[PCM]

Why would the state and its taxpayers have good reason to get involved in a potentail lawsuit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the thread. I'm not going to keep repeating what I've already written.

[IowaBison]

Just a thought: What if the State of North Dakota enters the lawsuit on UND's side?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doing so isn't going to be free.

[PhillySioux]

Read the thread. I'm not going to keep repeating what I've already written.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did and I still dont see why the taxpayers of this state would be interested in getting into a legal fee battle with the NCAA.

Just out of curiosity how much money is too much to spend in this process?