PCM Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 If the nickname is retained, PCM should be the first to be asked to be the new AD! If drafted, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve. Quote
Teeder11 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 If drafted, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve. Darn it! We're doomed. Quote
Oxbow6 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 The issues that I think we'll agree to disagree on is the hypocritical defenses. The Anti-Sioux crowd tends to be of one of 2 factions--PC crowd or Native Americans. Now do they have a right to their opposition--again YES. But the PC group barks at anything they deem not right or correct. The Indian oppositon is because of how they feel, and I have seen written and heard, "violated, racism, abused"...all of which are probably more than valid. BUT where is the PC/Indian crowd in voicing their concerns with the true Native American issues that have plagued generations after generations. You want to talk about hypocritical?? A name and logo are bigger issues to Native Americans than high rate of teen pregnancies, single family homes, high school drop-outs, alcoholism, should I continue? It would be refreshing to hear Jeanotte, His Horse Is Thunder and all the other Indian "leaders" address real issues with the same passion as they are in fighting the name/logo issue. But it is never as glamorous to clean one's own house as it is to try to point out the mess in someone else's house! Quote
Teeder11 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 The issues that I think we'll agree to disagree on is the hypocritical defenses. The Anti-Sioux crowd tends to be of one of 2 factions--PC crowd or Native Americans. Now do they have a right to their opposition--again YES. But the PC group barks at anything they deem not right or correct. The Indian oppositon is because of how they feel, and I have seen written and heard, "violated, racism, abused"...all of which are probably more than valid. BUT where is the PC/Indian crowd in voicing their concerns with the true Native American issues that have plagued generations after generations. You want to talk about hypocritical?? A name and logo are bigger issues to Native Americans than high rate of teen pregnancies, single family homes, high school drop-outs, alcoholism, should I continue? It would be refreshing to hear Jeanotte, His Horse Is Thunder and all the other Indian "leaders" address real issues with the same passion as they are in fighting the name/logo issue. But it is never as glamorous to clean one's own house as it is to try to point out the mess in someone else's house! Agreed. But, who am I to say what anyone should feel more worried about and what they should ignore. And who is to say that those other concerns aren't on top of their priority list. We here on this message board, for the most part, proponents of the nickname and logo, probably have no clue what American Indians are doing to combat those other social problems within their communities. Because - newsflash - we simply don't care. But, we do care about the nickname and logo issue, so it resonates more with us, and thusly, it seems to us to be all the opponents care about. Because it is the one things we truly care about that affects them. And for what it's worth, to be a Devil's advocate for the sake of strengthening the debate, the majority community in America has the same social problems going on within it ( teen pregnancies, single family homes, high school drop-outs, alcoholism) so it could be argued that, maybe we could worry about those more important things rather than a sports moniker. Why do we just stereotypically continue to bring up these issues and assign them only to the American Indian community when we debate this issue. It only increases the divide. I think this is the reason why Jeanotte and the nickname opponents have such a hard time with this debate -- the fact that we are more familiar with the drunken, jobless, hand-out searching, government-cheese eating Indians that our parents complained about. Quote
Oxbow6 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Agreed. But, who am I to say what anyone should feel more worried about and what they should ignore. And who is to say that those other concerns aren't on top of their priority list. We here on this message board, for the most part, proponents of the nickname and logo, probably have no clue what American Indians are doing to combat those other social problems within their communities. Because - newsflash - we simply don't care. But, we do care about the nickname and logo issue, so it resonates more with us, and thusly, it seems to us to be all the opponents care about. Because it is the one things we truly care about that affects them. And for what it's worth, to be a Devil's advocate for the sake of strengthening the debate, the majority community in America has the same social problems going on within it ( teen pregnancies, single family homes, high school drop-outs, alcoholism) so it could be argued that, maybe we could worry about those more important things rather than a sports moniker. Why do we just stereotypically continue to bring up these issues and assign them only to the American Indian community when we debate this issue. It only increases the divide. I think this is the reason why Jeanotte and the nickname opponents have such a hard time with this debate -- the fact that we are more familiar with the drunken, jobless, hand-out searching, government-cheese eating Indians that our parents complained about. Priorities--that is the issue that I have and probably lots of other "whites". If the logo/name is their priority, then they have MORE issues than are preceived. They don't seem to care as you NEVER hear anything about the issues and what they are doing about them. Same social issues--yes, but to the alarming rates as other ethnic groups (in this state)?? You could do better than that. Stereotyping--again another PC mantra for ignoring the real issues. By the way, you seem to have a pretty good handle on stereotyping yourself. Again, you see this one way, and your opinion is taken under asdvisement, but I see it another and I'll leave it at that. Quote
Teeder11 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 Priorities--that is the issue that I have and probably lots of other "whites". If the logo/name is their priority, then they have MORE issues than are preceived. They don't seem to care as you NEVER hear anything about the issues and what they are doing about them. Same social issues--yes, but to the alarming rates as other ethnic groups (in this state)?? You could do better than that. Stereotyping--again another PC mantra for ignoring the real issues. By the way, you seem to have a pretty good handle on stereotyping yourself. Again, you see this one way, and your opinion is taken under asdvisement, but I see it another and I'll leave it at that. Quote
Teeder11 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 I don't think you quite grasped what I was saying. But, hey, no biggie. Have a great day! Fred Wynne UND alumnus Canmore, Alta. Go Fighting Sioux! Quote
Oxbow6 Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 I don't think you quite grasped what I was saying. But, hey, no biggie. Have a great day! Fred Wynne UND alumnus Canmore, Alta. Go Fighting Sioux! I do get and understand the point you are making. Not that long ago, David Gipp, president of United Tribes Technical College in Bismarck, ND, was qouted as saying UND's "meddling" in this 3 year negotation period will cause "untold damage" in the "lives of good people and families". When I hear that I think what truly is at the root of the "real" "untold damage" to his people. Maybe the issues mentioned above? But again there is no voice from Indian leadership on these issues. So I see what you are saying, but to the average "white" person looking in from the outside on this issue, it doesn't seem to be reasonable when the Indian community in this state has so many more preceived "pressing" issues. Have a good day as well. Quote
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted November 7, 2007 Posted November 7, 2007 I'm not going to search back right now but if I'm not mistaken, didn't Kupchella talk about a contingent of ranking members of the SR tribe come and visit during the MN hockey series last year, and come away with a different (and more positive) impression of things here than they had been lead to believe back home? This gives me some hope that with some communication and first hand experiences there is room for that approval. Going on the opposite tack, IIRC some "veteran's committee" came to your campus over the summer and had favorable (or at least not UNfavorable) things to say about the nickname/logo. And within a few days they retracted the statement, saying they had new feedback or something. That is what leads me to believe that either you won't get the necessary approval(s) or that it will be rescinded virtually as soon as it is granted. Quote
PCM Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Now USD's student newspaper is questioning whether the Coyotes should play UND. The level of disrespect shown toward the logo designed by Bennett Brien, an American Indian and UND graduate, is astounding. In the comments section, be sure to read the well-written response by David Whitesock, a Grand Forks native. Editorial: Coyotes should chastise UND's offensive logo UND's current team nickname is "The Fighting Sioux" and their logo is a cartoon depiction of an American Indian chief. For years, UND has called their logo and nickname a "source of pride" for the thousands of American Indians in North Dakota. The American Indians, however, feel differently. They see the use of the logo as extremely offensive, and definitely not as a "source of pride." Because of the ongoing use of this logo and nickname, the University of Minnesota has publicly vowed not to participate in any athletic event with UND (except men's and women's hockey) as long as UND continues to use the offensive logo. North Dakota has called Minnesota's boycott unfortunate, but so far it has not motivated them to revise their logo. Quote
ScottM Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Even though Minnesota's boycott has not yet convinced UND to adopt a new logo, they have refused to sit by and silently condone the ongoing use of racist mascots. Hmm. I thought a "boycott" didn't allow for hypocritical exceptions, as in Minnesota's case, so ... God, what a freakin' idiot ... Quote
PCM Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Someone just made Mafia Man's day. (Please note that this article comes from a website called TheSpoof.com.) University of North Dakota Changes Team Name The University of North Dakota, in an effort to appease the NCAA, has changed the name of it's teams from "The Fighting Sioux" to "The Violent Italian Mafioso." Quote
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Editorial: Coyotes should chastise UND's offensive logo (emphasis added) This is the part that always seems to be used as a given; as if somehow all (or even a majority) of Indians see these logos as "EXTREMELY offensive". No backup. No rebuttal to the various polls that state otherwise. Just a vague statement that seems to be responding to the loudest of the whiners who see "racism" in everything they disagree with and who have gained traction for this viewpoint on the ultraliberal college campuses of today. Not only that, this type of statement fails to differentiate between those subgroups of Indians who have been granted veto power over logos by the NCAA (the Seminoles, Utes and now the Sioux) and the greater population of Indians overall. How can anyone say that "The American Indians" feel that logos are extremely offensive given the tribal approval of the logos at Utah and FSU?? Sloppy journalism, but sadly I've become accustomed to it. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Someone just made Mafia Man's day. (Please note that this article comes from a website called TheSpoof.com.) University of North Dakota Changes Team Name Didn't I declare "The Mafia" as the "perfect moniker" in a thread a while back? Where'd that go? Quote
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Didn't I declare "The Mafia" as the "perfect moniker" in a thread a while back? Where'd that go?I assume you received permission from either Mario Puzo or David Chase for this, didn't you? (Preferably you got permission from both of course. And either can veto the other's permission. And if you don't get permission within three years....) Quote
ScottM Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 Didn't I declare "The Mafia" as the "perfect moniker" in a thread a while back? Where'd that go? They might be offended ... Quote
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted November 8, 2007 Posted November 8, 2007 They might be offended ... Fuggittabotitttt.... (Besides, that group preferred to be called "LCN".) Quote
Taz Boy Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 Someone just made Mafia Man's day. (Please note that this article comes from a website called TheSpoof.com.) University of North Dakota Changes Team Name Satirical writing for humorous effect is best left to the professionals. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted November 13, 2007 Posted November 13, 2007 I assume you received permission from either Mario Puzo or David Chase for this, didn't you? (Preferably you got permission from both of course. And either can veto the other's permission. And if you don't get permission within three years....) I asked John Gotti for permission. He said there's no such thing as the mafia (kind of like Alaska-Anchorage's mythical Seawolf) so it's OK. Quote
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