Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[dagies]

Maybe we should find faculty at both institutions to write a letter in support of playing UI and UND.

[Sioux-cia]

[Sioux-cia]

Maybe we should find faculty at both institutions to write a letter in support of playing UI and UND.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those against the name are vocal and visible. How would we go about identifying those faculty who would be willing to sign such a letter; current students may know who they are, the alumni office may also be another good source?

[DamStrait]

Champaign-Urbana News-Gazette:  Letter calls for Schools to Shun Illinois, North Dakota

[redwing77]

[Ranger]

[dallassiouxfan]

[Sioux-cia]

[Sioux-cia]

[Uncle_Rico]

They have no problem cashing their pay checks from the University they are so ashamed of. If they really truly believed in what they were signing they should quit their job in protest. Then they could go do some pro bono work on the reservations so those professors could see first hand the real problems facing Native Americans today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[PCM]

From the Associated Press:

Congressional delegation supports Fighting Sioux nickname

All three members of North Dakota's congressional delegation say they disagree with an NCAA decision to bar the University of North Dakota from using its Fighting Sioux nickname and logo during postseason tournaments.

Three days late, the AP comes through with a severely shortened version of the Herald's Tuesday story.

[dagies]

[star2city]

Dayton Daily News: Nickname fight rages for 'Sioux'

Call it the calm before the storm.

As it loosened up Friday evening at the nearly deserted Nutter Center — wearing nondescript practice uniforms whose only hint of origin came from the small Indian logos on the black pants and helmets — the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux hockey team was all but unnoticed as it prepared for tonight's season opener against the Miami RedHawks in the Lefty McFadden Invitational.

For a few reasons — one it could do without — that probably won't be the case at season's end.

For years the unapologetic Engelstad — who Las Vegas media reported was infatuated with Nazism — opposed any attempts to change the Fighting Sioux nickname at UND.

[PCM]

Dayton Daily News:

For years the unapologetic Engelstad

[star2city]

http://www.enidnews.com/sportslocal/local_story_280014703

Enid, Oklahoma, News:

Instead of fighting about the Florida State Seminoles or the North Dakota Fighting Sioux, if people would direct all that energy into presenting the Native American culture, people would change their minds on their own and see that these are proud people and we should honor them even more.

[Sioux-cia]

Dayton Daily News: Nickname fight rages for 'Sioux'

Be the Fighting Sioux in first place, last place or on the injury list, they would NEVER, NEVER be 'all but unnoticed'.

Me sees the shine of a certain green eyed monster here, especially when I read about their new arena and saw pictures of it's construction. All I can say is 'Hee, hee, hee.'

I don't understand this. I was always under the impression that Ralph had promised to build the best, damned hockey arena in the world in Grand Forks, North Dakota as a show case for the best damned college hockey players in the world. Was a portion of the $100M suppose to go somewhere else? I know he quietly donated money for 2500 wheelchairs for people in ND who needed them about that same time, built a $10M hockey arena in his home town and gave millions of money to other charities but those donations were not tied to the REA budget. Hmm?

You got that right, Donna. As assistant director of UND's American Indian Student Services, you should point to Ralph Engelstad, a former UND student as a symbol of success. Donna, tell them that Ralph came from humble beginings just as many of them do and he went on to become one of the most successful alum from the University of North Dakota. Donna, tell them that with hard work, strong heart and clear goals, they to can achieve similar goals.

Our athletes are the best in the country and this is NOT going to affect their achievements. We, fans and alumni, are behind them 110%, fighting the good fight and we will perceiver and in the end we will still be the FIGHTING SIOUX.

[82SiouxGuy]

I don't understand this. I was always under the impression that Ralph had promised to build the best, damned hockey arena in the world in Grand Forks, North Dakota as a show case for the best damned college hockey players in the world. Was a portion of the $100M suppose to go somewhere else? I know he quietly donated money for 2500 wheelchairs for people in ND who needed them about that same time, built a $10M hockey arena in his home town and gave millions of money to other charities but those donations were not tied to the REA budget. Hmm?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The original donation was announced as $100 million. Part of that was going to build a new hockey arena (the best arena for the best college hockey team) and the remainder going to the university for whatever they wanted. At the original press conference they thought it might be close to 50-50. As the plans for the arena were developed it turned out that they spent all the money plus more on the arena.

[Sioux-cia]

The original donation was announced as $100 million. Part of that was going to build a new hockey arena (the best arena for the best college hockey team) and the remainder going to the university for whatever they wanted. At the original press conference they thought it might be close to 50-50. As the plans for the arena were developed it turned out that they spent all the money plus more on the arena.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the explanation, 82SiouxGuy. I didn't know that. Oh, oh, admitting lack of knowledge on this board. Ok, GK, go for the jugular, it's barred (only for the next 15 seconds).

[Runninwiththedogs]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we are all aware that is just one of our sudo-reporter's sudo-nyms...

[dagies]

http://www.enidnews.com/sportslocal/local_story_280014703

Enid, Oklahoma, News:

"As long as you don't do something improper or insulting, I don't have a problem with (American Indian nicknames)," said Donnie Childs, a former Enid track and cross country standout who is a member of the Otoe Missouria tribe.

"I love the Enid mascot. I would fight for Enid to keep that mascot.

"I don't see anybody wanting to get rid of the Fighting Irish (of Notre Dame) or the (West Virginia) Mountaineers. Instead of fighting about the Florida State Seminoles or the North Dakota Fighting Sioux, if people would direct all that energy into presenting the Native American culture, people would change their minds on their own and see that these are proud people and we should honor them even more."

I guess you can tell this guy isn't a Sioux.

[PCM]

From the Grand Forks Herald:

COLLEGE NICKNAMES: Courting disaster

UND's not likely to win a nickname battle with NCAA in court, sports law experts say

If UND takes the Fighting Sioux nickname to court, it will lose.

So say two law school professors with a specialty in sports law. The NCAA would prevail in its attempt to have American Indian nicknames, mascots and logos banned from its tournaments, they say.

[new2sioux2]

"The Ralph is a symbol of Ralph Engelstad's power and the power of the money he had," Donna Brown, assistant director of UND's American Indian Student Services,

"You got that right, Donna. As assistant director of UND's American Indian Student Services, you should point to Ralph Engelstad, a former UND student as a symbol of success. Donna, tell them that Ralph came from humble beginings just as many of them do and he went on to become one of the most successful alum from the University of North Dakota. Donna, tell them that with hard work, strong heart and clear goals, they to can achieve similar goals."

It's also a symbol of giving back to your community, alma mater, whatever. That would probably be a good thing to pass on to ANY students!

[mksioux]

From the Grand Forks Herald:

COLLEGE NICKNAMES: Courting disaster

UND's not likely to win a nickname battle with NCAA in court, sports law experts say

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are the things I've been saying all along:

A court will not consider whether the Fighting Sioux nickname is hostile or abusive. It will not judge whether UND has been respectful with its use of the nickname or logo. Courts don't want to get involved in the internal governance of any organization.

The Supreme Court also has ruled that the NCAA is a private organization and not a public entity. That ruling eliminates any argument that the nickname or logo is protected by free speech or that a ban violates constitutional rights.

The NCAA used the words "hostile and abusive" unnecessarily. It could have simply said "offensive" or some other word and enacted the same policy. Why on Earth the NCAA would use inflammatory words when it did not need to is beyond me. By using those words, they really made a lot of people angry that may not otherwise have been (Kupchella?).

I've said all along that success in the courts is highly unlikely. Howevever, I still think litigation is worthwhile. There are a couple race-based arguments that were not mentioned in the article that might have legs, i.e. the NCAA is making distinctions based upon race (Irish vs. Sioux). The goal would be to have the court apply strict scrutiny to the policy. It's a shot, but very doubtful because those cases normally apply to policies that relate to real people, not nicknames and logos.

More importantly, litigation may present the best opportunity to reach some sort of settlement. I'd push for a settlement that drops the words "hostile and abusive" and allows UND to host merit based post season games (i.e. football) while keeping intact the ban on covering up all imagry on uniforms and in the venue. It would still stink, but that would be a policy UND could at least live with.

[mikejm]

The Herald story points out how imperative it is that UND get with the tribes and work out some sort of agreement...now. I'm going to go back to Jeanotte's statement that there is room here for compromise. I don't see a win in the NCAA appeals without tribal endorsement of the logo/nickname, and the courts would appear to be a brick wall. We've heard here only from the radical fringe (Kracker et al). Surely there are sane people out there who can bring the sides together toward a constructive end to this mess.

[Sioux-cia]

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/12856136.htm

"If North Dakota is not successful in convincing the NCAA that it's not hostile or abusive, it will have a very difficult time convincing a court to rule otherwise," he said.

Instances that are years old and no longer tolerated in this community are all the NameChangers have to convince the NC$$ that the name is hostile or abusive. Unproven, anectodal allegations cannot be used as evidence in a court of law. Won't it be the NC$$'s responsibility to prove those allegations, rather than UND disproving them? I know they're the NC$$ but doesn't 'innocent until proven guilty' still apply?

"With tribal approval, the argument is far more significant," Haagen said. "But courts give private organizations substantial latitude in running their own affairs. An error or even a fairly obvious error has to raise to a high standard of capriciousness.

"It might not be enough."

Of course, it's not enough. The other three schools have tribal approval, big deal. What we have is far more substantial than an 'OK, you can use our name respectfully'. We have American Indian programs, services and a large percentage of American Indian students that seem to have been left out of the equation in this article quoting sports lawyers. How can they even presume to say we will probably lose without touching on the most important acts of respect, relationships, and working partnerships necessary to make our relationships with the American Indians successful? They say having the approval of a tribe may not be enough, prejudicial as that would be, so be it. We have so more more that raises us to a higher standard of respectful use of the Fighting Sioux name than any of those other schools have with the use of their nickname. To have a court deny us what they have been granted by the NC$$ is unimaginable to me.

The NCAA also has a record of winning against its members in the courts.

The NC$$ has suffered HUGH loses recently and have several cases pending that they can easily lose as well. Some of these cases are suing in the hundreds of millions, even if knocked down to smaller amounts, if they lose the NC$$ is still looking at losing tens of millions of dollars more. Being the NC$$, doesn't make this potential case a slam dunk by any means.

Heads up SiouxSports.com posters, this article don't mean jack!! I, for one, believe this is a very 'winable' case. BUT I do wish we could get the Spirit Lake tribe back on board. At the very least, being able to open communication with them again would be a step forward. Knowing why they have closed that door would be helpful.