Media Stories on the Sioux Name

[mksioux]

Did anyone catch this, are we tying scholarships to the name?

This just raises more questions than answers. The Spirit Lake tribal council is presumably the body that would have the authority to negotiate an agreement with UND regarding scholarship and/or profit charing arrangements. That's not the type of agreement achievable through a simple referendum.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

This just raises more questions than answers. The Spirit Lake tribal council is presumably the body that would have the authority to negotiate an agreement with UND regarding scholarship and/or profit charing arrangements. That's not the type of agreement achievable through a simple referendum.

Certainly both tribes would have to create some sort of negotiating committee to deal with UND representatives if an agreement is to be reached. But OTOH, right now there is no movement in that direction from the tribes. A referendum vote in favor of allowing UND to use the nickname certainly would have the effect of telling the ruling council(s) to "start the process".

And ideally, you'd have one series of meetings with all parties present: but that may not be possible if only one tribe is willing to move forward.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I know it's a breach of netiquette to respond to your own post, but I wanted to post one other thought on the benefits of having a popular vote. Many of us have written about the tenuous nature of the NCAA-imposed agreement; even if the tribal council(s) gave permission, it could be withdrawn at a moment's notice. IMHO, if there is a tribal popular vote in favor of the nickname, it would make it that much harder (politically) to withdraw the support without another vote.

Set the precedent that the support is granted via a referendum, and the withdrawal of such support should only come from another referendum. IMHO, that will get control of the issue further away from a few screamers.

[Goon]

This just raises more questions than answers. The Spirit Lake tribal council is presumably the body that would have the authority to negotiate an agreement with UND regarding scholarship and/or profit charing arrangements. That's not the type of agreement achievable through a simple referendum.

It would seem tying scholarships and UND keeping the name must have been thrown out there by someone one. Seems like a trial balloon.

I also agree that would take some sort of a legislative process. I can just imagine what the anti-nick name people would say if that happened.

Then you going to have people accusing people of selling their soles for scholarships. I think it would be do able if they gave more for scholarships

and some of the money from jersey sales.

[GeauxSioux]

Opinion piece from the Badger Herald.... Mascot battle does little for Indians, or mascots

But while wailing against your local school

[Chewey]

Very interesting reading:

www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/110363/

A very good piece of work and it is good to see that the majority is finally getting a say and that their say is being publicized. I guess I don't understand Mr. Longie's position. He seems to indicate that he would change minds against the nickname if he had enough time to propagandize tribal members with his own trumped up claims of rampant "racism" at the school. He says that it's a "matter of education." Does he not see how condescending this is to the tribal members? Is such behavior itself not racist? Good for the people on the Spirit Lake Reservation! I have seen quite a few natives at the Devils Lake mall with Sioux attire on. I just several natives with Sioux gear on at the Sioux-Wisconsin series in Madison this past weekend.

[Oxbow6]

Very interesting reading:

www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/110363/

A very good piece of work and it is good to see that the majority is finally getting a say and that their say is being publicized. I guess I don't understand Mr. Longie's position. He seems to indicate that he would change minds against the nickname if he had enough time to propagandize tribal members with his own trumped up claims of rampant "racism" at the school. He says that it's a "matter of education." Does he not see how condescending this is to the tribal members? Is such behavior itself not racist? Good for the people on the Spirit Lake Reservation! I have seen quite a few natives at the Devils Lake mall with Sioux attire on. I just several natives with Sioux gear on at the Sioux-Wisconsin series in Madison this past weekend.

Longie is nothing more than a puppet for Jeanotte and his UND antagonists. Heck, they may even be the same person?!

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

... I guess I don't understand Mr. Longie's position... He says that it's a "matter of education." Does he not see how condescending this is to the tribal members?...

I agree: if nickname/logo supporters had said something similar, it would have been jumped on by the nickname opponents so swiftly there would have been a thunderclap.

[redwing77]

Very interesting reading:

www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/110363/

A very good piece of work and it is good to see that the majority is finally getting a say and that their say is being publicized. I guess I don't understand Mr. Longie's position. He seems to indicate that he would change minds against the nickname if he had enough time to propagandize tribal members with his own trumped up claims of rampant "racism" at the school. He says that it's a "matter of education." Does he not see how condescending this is to the tribal members? Is such behavior itself not racist? Good for the people on the Spirit Lake Reservation! I have seen quite a few natives at the Devils Lake mall with Sioux attire on. I just several natives with Sioux gear on at the Sioux-Wisconsin series in Madison this past weekend.

I've answered this question what... 3 times already here in different threads?

Here's the 4th:

NO, it's not racist. NAs are incapable of racism. Only the White Man can be racist. When NA people speak out against other NAs, they're criticizing faults. When NAs speak out against White Man, they're simply voicing their frustration at what the White Man has forced them to become. They can do no wrong. They are completely without fault because they are what we made them.

Come to think of it... I really should start a campaign to censure Germany, Spain, Russia, and a few other countries and demand reparation to all Jews around the world for their keeping the Jewish people down. That way I can go around calling all the Christians "Satan's Army" and do whatever I want to you all because of what Christians have done to the Jews over the past millennia.

No... that sounds pathetic. Oh well, at least you know Longie's position now.

[GeauxSioux]

Is Your School Mascot Politically Correct?

Losing The Fighting Sioux

[octupus25]

The whole "racist" term is somewhat ridiculous. We are a human race. We all come from one set of parents. The very word makes no sense.

Anyway, I think people need to get away from the "racist" talk. The reason I'm saying isn't because there aren't some great debates going on,but that plays into the liberal/Kelly/Board of Ed/Horse Thunder/Hoeven garbage. It's a distraction technique. It's designed to get someone so mad they say something crazy. They go on boards like this and stir the pot by calling white people hicks and that kind of thing. I would just tell people to step away from it and remember who the real villians are in this and that is the eight cowards appointed by a coward Gov. and to rember the lack of support we have received some the big UND politicians like Early Pomeroy and Byron Dorgan. Hoeven has been a mess in this whole thing as well and he appointed these jokers. Robert Kelly is another one.

If you want to get even, avoid the racist talk and their other distraction techniques.

1. Stop buying the Grand Forks Herald. Mike Jacobs has made a living off of the sports page and yet he has been against this name from day one.

2. Do not ever again vote for Pomeroy or Hoeven.

3. Keep the debate going. UND wants this to go away. They basically admitted it on the radio yesterday. They think a short term bit of anger is natural, but we'll all forgive and forget.

4. Let the boo's fly when Kelly steps on a field or runs his pie hole. He's a Cal Berkley special and his actions should have been expected.

It won't change where we are at, but it will take away any rewards from these cowards who abandoned us when we needed them.

I'm just begging people to avoid the racial debates.

[dagies]

I love this part....Wikipedia is now a credible source for journalism.

I couldn't tell for sure but that looked more like a blog entry to me? If so quoting Wikipedia probably isn't such a big issue.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I couldn't tell for sure but that looked more like a blog entry to me? If so quoting Wikipedia probably isn't such a big issue.

Of course, that's an attack on the blogs, which are an easy target.

This just smacks of "selective research" to me. I for one have never heard the Civil War story in connection with Notre Dame. AFAIK, their official website doesn't mention this story either. So couldn't the blogger go to the official website instead of Wiki?

[The Sicatoka]

Charles E. Trimble wrote a masterfully sarcastic piece in the past on this subject.

He's back.

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/opinion/47221982.html

Back to the University of North Dakota, I was never offended by their name the Fighting Sioux. And I think there are many Lakotas, Dakotas and Nakotas who are not offended, both on the UND campus and elsewhere.

It (Fighting Sioux) is an apt name, and if you want proof, just go to a council meeting on any reservation

in North or South Dakota.

If anything, the name is a redundancy.

I think UND betrayed the name, for if they were really like the Fighting Sioux, they would still be sporting the name.

The process of finally consulting the tribes, and even bringing the issue to a vote on the reservations would have proven interesting. And a good negotiator on the tribes’ side could have gained much in scholarships and programs for Native students as a trade-off for using the name. The close-order shrill teams that put up such a ruckus against names that offend them, and work to get other students who are too busy to notice properly offended, are disappearing Native America faster than the U.S. government ever could with their warfare, boarding schools, missionaries and relocation programs.

The sentence in bold I find hilarious. Seems that's what tribal councils are best at.

[GeauxSioux]

From the same article...

How about the

[gjw007]

You bring up good point, at what point are the PC ZEALOTS satisfied, whey do they stop with their demands,? Who far to they go?

The answer is never as the moment they achieve the initial goal, they create more, some of which the original individuals who proposed the path don't agree with. In the end, it progresses so far that they turn on themselves but the damage has already been done. It isn't only PC Zealots; you can look at how the conservatives in Germany in the late 20s and early 30s share similar beliefs with the Nazi thinking that they can control the excesses but the zealots got control and we know the history there (you can argue the same point for revolutionary Russia in 1918-1925 until Stalin turned on the Russia people with the mass murders in the 30s, Cambodia in the 70s, Sudan today). Unfortunately it is the nature of zealots to push their agenda beyond reason.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

...might merit a commencement address by Al Gore.

Don't forget to give him time to grow his protest beard!

In the end, it progresses so far that they turn on themselves but the damage has already been done.

The old "when they came for the Gypsies, I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Gypsy....and then they came for me and no one spoke up; because there was no one left" saying was brought up recently here. That one hasn't been spoken much lately, but it was pretty big back in the 1960's.

We have forgotten history, therefore we are doomed to repeat it.

[GeauxSioux]

We have forgotten history, therefore we are doomed to repeat it.

Amen, on so many of today's issues.

[redwing77]

The old "when they came for the Gypsies, I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Gypsy....and then they came for me and no one spoke up; because there was no one left" saying was brought up recently here. That one hasn't been spoken much lately, but it was pretty big back in the 1960's.

We have forgotten history, therefore we are doomed to repeat it.

Actually, it was a quote by a lutheran minister in Germany during World War II. Actually, it wasn't published officially until 1955.

Here.'s the wikipedia article on it.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

Actually, it was a quote by a lutheran minister in Germany during World War II. Actually, it wasn't published officially until 1955.

Here..'s the wikipedia article on it.

Right, I knew the quote was older than that-it's just that during the protest/counterculture era of the 1960's it became a very popular thing to say.

[redwing77]

Right, I knew the quote was older than that-it's just that during the protest/counterculture era of the 1960's it became a very popular thing to say.

Yeah, found that it has been turned into a rallying cry for every cause imaginable.

Kinda lessens the power of the original imo.

[gjw007]

Yeah, found that it has been turned into a rallying cry for every cause imaginable.

Kinda lessens the power of the original imo.

No, I think it re-enforces the need to vigilant against apathy.

[GeauxSioux]

If sentiment is shifting on names, what about Redskins?

Objection by some tribes to the Fighting Sioux nickname certainly wasn't unanimous, but it was substantial. It was enough to warrant change.

I guess this journalist didn't take the time to find out that Spirit Lake had a vote and his "substantial" was approximately 1/3 of the vote.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

I guess this journalist didn't take the time to find out that Spirit Lake had a vote and his "substantial" was approximately 1/3 of the vote.

Here's the part I like:

Spare me the sophomoric attempts at logic about the Vikings or the Fighting Irish.

It's been more than 900 years since the Vikings of seagoing lore were fading into agrarian lifestyles.

Yeah: uh, any ideas on why that happened? Wait, some sort of evolutionary "conquring" made their civilization either adapt or become extinct?

It's exactly the same. You and your thesaurus need to find a different word than "sophomoric". Same thing with "fading".

And if you want logic, give me your explanation for why the Aztec nickname is allowed to exist. And Sooners. Let's not even go with Seminoles, Chippewas or Utes just yet.

Notre Dame was founded as a largely Irish-Catholic university. It was not overstepping its own profile to call its teams the Fighting Irish.

None of the "insult" logic changes merely because you think that ND was founded by Irish-Catholics. And BTW genius, the full name is "Notre Dame du Lac" which sounds kinda French, doesn't it? Maybe you'll be able to follow the logic of a FRENCH order religious order founding a university and giving it a FRENCH name. And it was FOUNDED not so much as a university but rather as a seminary.

Don't let the facts get in the way of you and your thesaurus. Did you email your rant to the Pulitzer committee yet? There's a slot for fiction writer that's been open for quite a while at a newspaper in Washington DC. I think the incumbent left after her work on a heroin addict.

[DamStrait]

There are some people that are so stupid it is amazing that they manage not to "off" themselves before achieving adulthood. Pat Duncan is one such person. I'm offended by his sophomoric attempt to justify opposition to the "Fighting Sioux" moniker. I insist he be summarily dismissed from his paper and never put anything into writing again. Wow - exercising the tyranny of the minority is fun!!! I should have started doing this years ago.