To begin a journey of a 1000 miles....

[GrahamKracker]

[Diggler]

I can guarantee you that this University won't win.  GUARANTEE.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know. If all the NCAA member schools collectively made this decision, I'd be much more inclined to agree with you. The definitions given were very broad and open to interpretation about what they do and do not apply to. The fact that it was made by the Executive Comittee and the NCAA is already begining to back down on FSU, it seems that UND and other schools will win. Especially on the Western Regional, UND will win that.

And KTF didn't recommend a book, just said she could.

[GrahamKracker]

[Diggler]

That doesn't seem to be why the Executive Commitee made the decision though. Whether or not the school has support didn't seem to matter. The decision on who was offensive and who wasn't seemed rather arbitrary. Just like at Illini being banned but Aztecs being ok. That's just dumbfounding.

How many Seminole Tribes are there? More than one in Florida and one in Oklahoma? Also is Spirit Lake Lakota/Dakota/Nakota/etc. and are there any other tribes that are the same as Spirit Lake? Looking it up it says Sisseton Wahpeton which is Dakota. And there is also Sisseton Wahpeton in South Dakota. Is this right? I hope you understand this and I don't sound like an idiot, though I'm sure I do.

Another question. How are Tribal Leaders elected? Democratic, duh. Everyone from the tribe votes, correct? Not just those who live on the Reservation. I thought of this question while looking for answers to my other question, so it isn't totally out of the blue.

[PCM]

That doesn't seem to be why the Executive Commitee made the decision though.  Whether or not the school has support didn't seem to matter.  The decision on who was offensive and who wasn't seemed rather arbitrary. Just like at Illini being banned but Aztecs being ok.  That's just dumbfounding.

The NCAA's answer about the Fighting Irish not being included was also dumbfounding, even though the ban is supposed to include names of national origin. They said it was because nobody had complained about Notre Dame.

Okay, great. So how many people have to complain before Notre Dame gets put on the list of The Dirty Dozen and a Half? One? Six? 100? 10,000? How many?

[Sioux-cia]

[KnowtheFacts]

[mikejm]

Why don't you call B&N and ask them if they can get you a copy, w/ pictures if needed?  That, or have someone read it to you.  But before you comment, read the book, (I dare you, but you don't seem like the "reading" type.....lol)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Classy, Kracker. Very classy.

[Diggler]

some interesting commentary about your "Fighting  Irish" What about the Fighting Irish, Spartans and Vikings......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The article brings up good points, but none of that changes the fact that the NCAA ruling is very broad and under the stipulations they gave for banning many Native American nicknames, many other nicknames should also be banned.

[jimdahl]

[KnowtheFacts]

[jimdahl]

UND was not founded for the education or benefit of Indians; UNC apparently was.

Isn't that what I just said? Your participation in the discussion could be a little more constructive if you did less reactionary recitation of talking points and actually read and considered what other people are saying.

[PCM]

Note that most of UND's Indian organizations are for changing the name and would applaud NCAA's decision.

[jimdahl]

[HockeyMom]

This is like talking to a brick wall.

[Sioux-cia]

[Diggler]

There needs to be an ultimate solution to this thing. Either a referendum where all Sioux vote on whether or not to keep the name or UND meeting with all the tribes and coming to a compromise.

[cheppi]

GK/KTF:

Since no compromise is possible, how about this idea. Why don't the tribes under the heading "sioux" stop using the name and once again refer to themselves as before. From my understanding the sioux name was given by a rival tribe to the lakota/dakota people. If this group of people now find this name offensive and abusive, why not start calling yourselves by the lakota/dakota terminology once again. In this respect you will no longer be directly associated with the university as a people. yes, I know it is a stupid idea from an ignorant white guy but this is another way of viewing the situation.

[NorthDakotaHockey]

I am sure that it has been surely said somewhere here before but I've neither the time nor the desire to look.

It is ironic that in this day of cultural diversity, and of celebrating diversity, and of learning about and downright revering other cultures and ways of life, there are those who want to put a spike into the vehicle of sport to keep cultural names and identities front and center.

Kids thirty years from now are not going to remember the Sioux because of history lessons. They will get their history lessons from wondering about the Sioux who are revered by that team at NDU.

[ScottM]

There needs to be an ultimate solution to this thing.  Either a referendum where all Sioux vote on whether or not to keep the name or UND meeting with all the tribes and coming to a compromise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suggest a showdown of sorts. All the supporters of the name/logo on one side, the losers on the other. Both sides armed with hockey sticks, axe handles, baseball bats and hatchets. Last person left standing gets to make the decision. Sweet, simple and great PPV possibilities.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

GK and KTF...Are either of you named after a relative?

[GrahamKracker]

[GrahamKracker]

I am sure that it has been surely said somewhere here before but I've neither the time nor the desire to look.

It is ironic that in this day of cultural diversity, and of celebrating diversity, and of learning about and downright revering other cultures and ways of life, there are those who want to put a spike into the vehicle of sport to keep cultural names and identities front and center.

Kids thirty years from now are not going to remember the Sioux because of history lessons.  They will get their history lessons from wondering about the Sioux who are revered by that team at NDU.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No they won't, because this FS name won't be around that long, only in hockey history books

[GrahamKracker]

GK/KTF:

Since no compromise is possible, how about this idea.  Why don't the tribes under the heading "sioux" stop using the name and once again refer to themselves as before.  From my understanding the sioux name  was given by a rival tribe to the lakota/dakota people.  If this group of people now find this name offensive and abusive, why not start calling yourselves by the lakota/dakota terminology once again.  In this respect you will no longer be directly associated with the university as a people.  yes, I know it is a stupid idea from an ignorant white guy but this is another way of viewing the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First of all, we are not the same people. There are more than one out there that opposes the name, and if you'd like, I can get my BRIDGES people to come in here to, but anyways, that's up to the Government. Regardless of the name, you still have an Indian as a logo, you forgot to mention that.

[Diggler]

I thought you just had a problem with the name. You don't like the logo either?

Eh, who cares anymore. This discussion truely is going nowhere and is becoming rather pointess.