Student Hockey Seats May Go

[airmail]

At the beginning of the first season at REA, I was very upset about the whole standing thing. Having seats in 107, it was difficult for my kids to see the game, as well as for myself without standing up to see over the students. And of course, I wasn't going to stand up, and block the view for others near me. So I sat there, po'd, and complained like everyone else in my section. That's just the way it went.

That being said:

The students in 108 have been great. They've extended the courtesy of sitting for the majority of the play (albeit against their wishes) to us old farts in 107, and everything has gone fine. Certainly, at the beginning of the season there were those who thought they were above the rules, but except for those few we've had absolutely no trouble. Perhaps those in 109 are causing the problems? I don't know... nor do I care. As far as swearing, derogatory cheers, etc.... they're college kids. BFD. Yeah, sometimes it's a bit uncomfortable when my children are at the games, but it's nothing they haven't heard out of their old man's mouth at least a hundred times anyway. The standing gets my dander up one helluva lot more than them chiding an opponent.

What I don't understand is why they don't move the student section behind the north net. I wouldn't think that too many season-ticket holders there would mind being moved to center ice. But what do I know.

[airmail]

Hockey Mom, back when I was in school (1980's) it was just "Who's he, he sucks" without the extra expletive on the end.  IMO it has better rhythym that way as well as being more palatable.  I think leave off the last word and probably no one complains.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Early 1990's too. Of course there were only about 6 of us in the arena.......

[PCM]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Sioux hockey games aren't played in a vacuum. They are broadcast regionally and sometimes nationally. What is seen and heard by people tuning into the broadcasts reflects directly on UND.

In addition, not everyone who attends the games is a die-hard Sioux fan or even a hockey fan. Some of these people are important and influential. Some are considered opinion leaders. What they say about UND can and does impact the institution.

It's not about whether you are offended by swearing. It's not about whether you have no problem with students standing throughout the games. It's not about whether you are frustrated because the Ralph hasn't put cheers and lyrics on the scoreboard.

It's about having fans who can be loud and support their team without being an embarrassment to UND. It's about showing common courtesy to others in the building who paid to see the games.

If you take pride in your team, your university and the Fighting Sioux nickname, then you should be concerned about the image Sioux fans project to the outside world. You can try to pretend that none of this matters, but it does.

[Diggler]

I think even if the sh^t was left off the end of the He sucks cheer, a few people would still complain. Some people just don't like students no matter what. Even if this problem is solved, there will still be some people complaining because students will be students. They'll be loud, obnoxious and rowdy.

[MafiaMan]

[oldralph]

[MafiaMan]

I was at UND for The Farce 20 year reunion (I think it was 20). What a hoot those guys were. I even ran into some of them in Columbus. Again, those road-trip fans are the TRUE fans: Those who KNOW the game and RESPECT it.

[ESPNInsider]

OLDRALPH, students today are just as creative as they were 20 years ago, you are just too far up in the rafters to hear it

Only kidding, but I think that standing has become a part of sport. When you see a good DI student crowd they are ALL standing ALL game. i.e. Wisco's student sections are what I (and many others, SI did an article on them a while back) would consider some of the best in the country. They stand all game long and have coordinated cheers all game long. Heck the underclassmen and seniors even go back and forth with a "F*&^ you!" "Eat SH#*!" cheer at the football games. It's part of the atmosphere at college sporting events. Don't want it, take your kids to a high school game, the atmosphere is much more contained there, as it should be!

[Sweeny]

I think using the Sioux student section, the Piston fans, and the Red Sox fan last night in the same post isn't quite fair.

The students are the University of North Dakota. Let them stand, let them cheer.  The "who's he, he sucks s&!t" chant has been around forever (well since before I went to UND) and suddenly they can't say it?  That's like letting your kids do something for years and then one day telling they can't anymore 'cause it's wrong.

I remember being completely obnoxious at football and hockey games, it's not fair to take that stuff away from the students, it was part of college life and it should remain.  Crap I remember being completely sober and almost getting into fights with Bison fans........

As far as I'm concerned Kupchella can leave the University of North Dakota before the students leave the REA.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen.

I have often wondered what it is that happens to our alumni that makes them get so frustrated with us students today. Have they always been this way - as students would they just not go to games since they would be offended by fellow students? Or do you really change that much as you get older? Seriously, I have run into some amazingly ornery adults at the games - like I have been yelled at by old guys with grey hair several times this year, and I don't consider myself a crazy troublemaker either!

My main issue is this: WHY DO YOU COME TO THE HOCKEY GAME IF YOU DON"T LIKE THE ATMOSPHERE? Seriously, if you just want to watch a game, watch it on TV. You get more angles, replays, and commentary. If you want to CHEER then go to the game itself. This seems intuitive to me, but some older folks seriously don't get it. Instead they would rather come to the game - a COLLEGE game - and try institute their own set of rules upon US students! Thats messed up. Especially since we haven't needed these rules in the past. Kupchella needs to grow a pair and be reasonable about this.

[YaneA]

I've often thought that it wouldn't be such a bad idea to "salt" every section in the Ralph with some enthusiastic, cheering students.

Diggler, sign me up for the forum. I'd love to serve on a fan conduct/atmosphere committee.

[Siouxman]

The students have improved tremendously in the standing controversy. From my perspective, if the profanity can be curtailed, 90% of the complaining will be gone, and the rest of the complainers don't matter. I will date myself here a little. In the Rube Bjorkman days of old Engelstad, we didn't need the graphic profanity. The students were a little bit more creative. Here are a couple of examples:

Sandwich Sandwich Double Decker

We got the Gophers by the Pecker

So pull Sioux, Pull.

Down the River and Over the Falls

We have the Gophers by the Balls

So squeeze Sioux, Squeeze.

We also had the Snakepit at the basketball games. No profanity was allowed in the group, which sat behind the visitors bench. For many games, the visiting team had to pull their time-out huddle onto the floor (especially UNO), because of the harrassment. All done without profanity. It can be done. The atmosphere was there, the noise was tremendous, all without the current level of profanity.

I have seen outstanding creativity on SS.com among the posters. Maybe we can help the students by developing some creative cheers and signs.

We need to keep the student group together and engaged. Without that the REA would degrade into the type of Mariucci atmosphere that Woog the Whiner complained about all the time. Just bring the language back across the line a little bit.

[ABER]

You know this is absolutely idiotic that this same issue with Upchuck keeps coming to the forefront.  What I want to know, where was he on Thursday night of the Frozen Four -- oh probably slurping his prune juice at the nursing home somewhere.  This guy makes me want to puke! 

I say we inendate him with the great article in the Dakota Student on the fan support at the Frozen Four.

Upchuck needs to go play with the gophers and leave the students alone at UND! 

JFC!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was on the bus with him and his wife after we won in 2000, you would have thought the guy was coming home from a funeral.

[ESPNInsider]

The students have improved tremendously in the standing controversy.  From my perspective, if the profanity can be curtailed, 90% of the complaining will be gone, and the rest of the complainers don't matter.  I will date myself here a little.  In the Rube Bjorkman days of old Engelstad, we didn't need the graphic profanity.  The students were a little bit more creative.  Here are a couple of examples:

Sandwich Sandwich Double Decker

We got the Gophers by the Pecker

So pull Sioux, Pull.

Down the River and Over the Falls

We have the Gophers by the Balls

So squeeze Sioux, Squeeze.

We also had the Snakepit at the basketball games.  No profanity was allowed in the group, which sat behind the visitors bench.  For many games, the visiting team had to pull their time-out huddle onto the floor (especially UNO), because of the harrassment.  All done without profanity.  It can be done.  The atmosphere was there, the noise was tremendous, all without the current level of profanity.

I have seen outstanding creativity on SS.com among the posters.  Maybe we can help the students by developing some creative cheers and signs.

We need to keep the student group together and engaged.  Without that the REA would degrade into the type of Mariucci atmosphere that Woog the Whiner complained about all the time.  Just bring the language back across the line a little bit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First off, I think people found some of those chants offensive too but maybe just didn't feel the freedom to voice it like they do now. Do you think if the student section was doing the old C_O_N_D_O_M chants people wouldn't complain, sure they would.

On another note, we had the same thing at b-ball games when I was there a couple of years ago. Swearing rarely if ever happened and yet we rode the opposing teams hard. I actually called a time out for UNC during a play-in game and we were SO good that we got a UNO player suspended for a game because he gave us the bird, after some good ribbing by us.

[Sweeny]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Sioux hockey games aren't played in a vacuum. They are broadcast regionally and sometimes nationally. What is seen and heard by people tuning into the broadcasts reflects directly on UND.

In addition, not everyone who attends the games is a die-hard Sioux fan or even a hockey fan. Some of these people are important and influential. Some are considered opinion leaders. What they say about UND can and does impact the institution.

It's not about whether you are offended by swearing. It's not about whether you have no problem with students standing throughout the games. It's not about whether you are frustrated because the Ralph hasn't put cheers and lyrics on the scoreboard.

It's about having fans who can be loud and support their team without being an embarrassment to UND. It's about showing common courtesy to others in the building who paid to see the games.

If you take pride in your team, your university and the Fighting Sioux nickname, then you should be concerned about the image Sioux fans project to the outside world. You can try to pretend that none of this matters, but it does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take pride in being a passionate fan. I do not take pride in not being myself because other people want me to act politically correct. I AM A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE DAMMIT!!!

This is my team, and I am sure my team appreciates the people who know how to go a little nuts at a game more than the people who just show up because the Ralph is "the cool place to be" even if those other people are 1000x richer than I will ever be and give the school lots of money.

[cfm567b27]

[Siouxman]

On another note, we had the same thing at b-ball games when I was there a couple of years ago.  Swearing rarely if ever happened and yet we rode the opposing teams hard.  I actually called a time out for UNC during a play-in game and we were SO good that we got a UNO player suspended for a game because he gave us the bird, after some good ribbing by us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your exploits clearly put you in the upper echelon of skilled opponent harassment. *bowing to you*

Maybe you could put on some training classes!

[MafiaMan]

[cfm567b27]

Can we just fast forward to the 2006 Frozen Four and the part where I board the Al Pearson bus in St Paul?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I knew you would have some good times with Al....

[MafiaMan]

How good of a time you ask, cfm? My two buddies who ditched me on the trip and stayed here are looking forward to driving to Milwaukee next year. I told them to meet me there.

[Sioux,CO]

As an alumni I think there needs to be one change. Kupchella needs to be removed from UND and sent to PCU (Politically Correct University). The guy is a joke and UND hasn't had a good President since Clifford.

I was at UND in the last 4 years of the old Englestad and the fans and students were able to do a lot more than the current student base and we never got complaints. The fans there were real hockey fans and it was good to go to games and not have to worry about what was going on. I remeber sitting by the opposing goaltenders for 2 periods a game just to heckle them.

Just leave the student body alone and let them enjoy college. There are a lot of things that can make your university look worse than people standing and doing some chears. See U of Colorado, since these are what real issues are.

Mark my words, if you remove the students or move them against their will I will not donate a dime back to UND. I think the current student body should do the same. The grey hairs that complain won't be around much longer and we are the future.

Rant over.

[The Sicatoka]

Folks, the Sioux fans in Columbus were praised by UND and the other fans there.

What are the characteristics of those fans?

- I didn't hear the "other team introductions" chant*

- I did see the crowd stand and cheer during breaks and at key times, but

- I did see Sioux fans sitting so those around them could see at other times

- And could you ever hear those Sioux fans

So how do we get that behavior standard in REA?

* There's fertile ground for something new and creative there.

[MafiaMan]

Folks, the Sioux fans in Columbus were praised by UND and the other fans there.

What are the characteristics of those fans?

- I didn't hear the "other team introductions" chant*

- I did see the crowd stand and cheer during breaks and at key times, but

- I did see Sioux fans sitting so those around them could see at other times

- And could you ever hear those Sioux fans

So how do we get that behavior standard in REA?

* There's fertile ground for something new and creative there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Sicatoka. As I said earlier, Sioux fans young and old enjoyed the Frozen Four and there was much mutual respect. I partied with 19, er, 21 year olds and 68 year olds on the same bus and in the same bars/beer tents. It was a blast. How to incorporate the "we're on the same team" theme into REA is the big question here.

[airmail]

This is my team, and I am sure my team appreciates the people who know how to go a little nuts at a game more than the people who just show up because the Ralph is "the cool place to be" even if those other people are 1000x richer than I will ever be and give the school lots of money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the same "entitlement rhetoric" that has been gone over time and time again.

Let me throw this at you: A kid is 5 years old, and already bleeds green for Sioux Hockey. He sits through to the end of every game, win or lose, and cheers every good play. He looks up to the players and considers them role models. Now tell me this, isn't it his team too... just as much as it is yours? What makes it your right to take away his ability to enjoy the game? Do you not think the team appreciates him as much as they do you?

The constant argument is the students vs. the rich alums who sit on their hands. In reality, it's the students against everyone.

[PCM]

To address another comment somewhere back there, what are the comparisons to the Canadian fans at the WJC and the Sioux fans at Columbus?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Canadians at the World Juniors were very loud almost all the time. There was a group of them in the top northeast corner of the Ralph who generated a lot of noise regardless of whether their team was playing or not. They were extremely good at being annoying -- and I mean that as a compliment. If they did any obscene or profane cheers, either I didn't hear them or I don't remember them. I was very impressed with the Canadian fans.

[ESPNInsider]

This is the same "entitlement rhetoric" that has been gone over time and time again.

Let me throw this at you: A kid is 5 years old, and already bleeds green for Sioux Hockey. He sits through to the end of every game, win or lose, and cheers every good play. He looks up to the players and considers them role models. Now tell me this, isn't it his team too... just as much as it is yours? What makes it your right to take away his ability to enjoy the game? Do you not think the team appreciates him as much as they do you?

The constant argument is the students vs. the rich alums who sit on their hands. In reality, it's the students against everyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you that it's not anyone's team. But as for the kid not being able to watch a game, I disagree with that. The kid is being brought into an environment known to have swearing and some bad behavior so it is the parents' responsability to either not sit by the students or teach the kid that this is not right. I remember being a little guy at a Vikings game and the guy in front of us was swearing the whole time and yelling. My parents just told us after the game that it was not right and you should not act like that. I remember feeling like the guy was an idiot. I rarely, if ever, swear when I am at games, but when I was growing up I saw a lot of it first hand. I guess my parents did a good job