The Division I question...

[ScottM]

Write slower, Pat. I don't think the Stream Yellow crowd can understand you.

[bisonguy]

I agree 100%.

I also believe that UND should move to DI if they want to support the highest level of athletics in all sports (second highest in football), can financially afford the move, and believes that DI is the best fit for their athletic program. Pride, emotion, or even keeping up with the Chapman's are not proper reasoning to make the move.

I can understand why NDSU got tired of living in the shadow of UND's renowned and nationally known Division I hockey team. Pride and emotion are powerful forces that sometimes overpower logic, reason and financial considerations. But Chapman did what he thought was necessary for NDSU, and I'm okay with that.

More like, NDSU was tired of trying to get the rest of the NCC to move to DI for the last 25 years, lost interest in trying to pull along a bunch of boat anchors, and moved on with the schools that shared the same vision.

A) UND's decision on whether or not it makes the jump to DI-AA shouldn't be driven by pride or emotion.

True, but what would the reasoning behind it be if it made no logical or financial sense to do so?

B) Future events beyond UND's control (i.e. actions by the NCAA) might force UND to move to DI-AA, even though it makes no sense to do so and the university isn't in a position to support the move financially.

Ahhh yes. What better way to appease those opposing a move to DI than to proclaim, "But we were FORCED to do it!". Anything short of Myles Brand holding a gun to Kupchella's head is not forcing UND to do anything. Influence, possibly, but not force. UND can choose what they want to do.

What actions could those possibly be? A reduction of football grants to 24? What's so different about a reduction to 24 than a reduction to 50, 45,40 or 36? Losing regional rivalries?

C) If UND decides to or is forced to move up a level, it will require significant increases in the amount of financial support UND receives from its students and alumni.

Very true, but again, they won't be forced.

Thanks for the calmer tone.

[UND-1]

Which one of you is holding the tape measure........

[PCM]

Which one of you is holding the tape measure........

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Which one of us is forcing you to read this thread?

[The Sicatoka]

I've always found it curious that the Bison mascot's name is ThUNDar.

(I love sticking that mental seed into NDSU heads.)

[PCM]

Pride, emotion, or even keeping up with the Chapman's are not proper reasoning to make the move.

Right. That's what Kupchella said in his letter, and I agree with it.

More like, NDSU was tired of trying to get the rest of the NCC to move to DI for the last 25 years, lost interest in trying to pull along a bunch of boat anchors, and moved on with the schools that shared the same vision.

That's a valid point of view, although as an SDSU alum, I remain unconvinced that it was a good move for the Jacks. But that's a different discussion.

True, but what would the reasoning behind it be if it made no logical or financial sense to do so?

Exactly what you said: Keeping up with the Chapmans.

What better way to appease those opposing a move to DI than to proclaim, "But we were FORCED to do it!". Anything short of Myles Brand holding a gun to Kupchella's head is not forcing UND to do anything. Influence, possibly, but not force. UND can choose what they want to do.

You're right that technically, UND can't be "forced" to do anything. However, if the NCAA waters down Division II to the point where it's no longer tolerable for UND to be associated with athletics at that level, the university will essentially be forced to make a change.

[NDSU grad]

Are you two coming to a consensus? If so, this very well could be a first in internet message board history.

[Orange & Maroon Sioux]

I am A Sioux fan (through good friends in Arthur, ND) , went to Virginia Tech, and live in Richmond, VA.

Us & U of Va are 1-A. There are about6 or so 1-AA schools here, but few if any (a couple of historically black schools I believe) Div 2 here.

All I have to say is that the financial jump to 1-A is enormous. I can't tell you off hand what our atheletic budget is, but it is probably 10 times what yours is. Then again, we won the ACC football Championship, our Coach, Frank Beamer (18 years & an Alum) was Sports Illustrated's "Coach of the year". We are ranked #9 & play #3 Auburn in the BCS Sugar Boel for which we get 12 million os so.....gross. Take away travel expenses (1-2 mil), split w/ conference & we get much less.

The point is , it took us years (and Michael Vick!!!!!) to get to this. Our stadium seats 68,000 (73,000 next year) and is sold out for every game. Our fans travel & support is legendary.....especially to Bowl people. We have about 23,00o students.

The point is, I really can't see where ND has the base to do these things. Hockey? You are the greatest; we don't even play except at a club level which is very low key.

It seems like you are in a good position. 1-A in your best sport, and at a level where you are a power in football. I don't know about basketball or others, but pretty much know these are your two "biggies". It is a MONSTER jump to 1-A, and if you wind up with 6-5 or 4-7 seasons I don't know if your fan suppost will hang in there.

Boise State is all the rage this year, but I'll promise you our 5th in the nation defense would enable us to beat them like a rented mule if we played. I don't know how many Florida players would want to go there, and ANY good 1-A team has some Florida players because they are THE best atheletes. Period.

I wish you luck in your decision making, but D2 to D1 is way too much for my 2nd favorite team/school to swallow, in my humble opinion.

[PCM]

Are you two coming to a consensus?   If so, this very well could be a first in internet message board history.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why you should believe in miracles.

[bigmrg74]