choyt3 Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 ...now they are seeking donations. Sure, those extra amenities are great and all, but are they necessary? It's going to be basically a non-conference game arena (for basketball). Anybody have a half million just lying around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 Why not tell the public how much the Engelstad family donated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choyt3 Posted April 16, 2004 Author Share Posted April 16, 2004 I think Strinden is just talking about the $110 million plus that was donated for the hockey arena. I don't think they have donated anything at all specifically for the Betty. And it looks as though they don't intend to ask the Engelstads to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 $7,000,000 and now they need only $500,000 more but can't? "It's going to be wonderful if the community takes an interest in this." Something seems strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I am a bit confused by the confusion!! The $7 million needed to build the facility were obtained via a bond issue. This debt will be serviced by profits from REA and the new Betty. The $7 million covers the structure itself. To "finish" it in a similar style as the Ralph, they need another $500,000. There is not an extra half million sitting around in REA's pocket to pay for this - nor should that be expected. It is great that they are earning enough to service this addition debt. I see nothing wrong with asking the community and alumni to assist in making this a first class facility. It is much easier to do so now than try to fix it up later. Obviously, if things aren't done fairly nicely, it will be very noticeable in comparison with the lavishness of the Ralph next door. I will write a check to assist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corella Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I am a bit confused by the confusion!! The $7 million needed to build the facility were obtained via a bond issue. This debt will be serviced by profits from REA and the new Betty. The $7 million covers the structure itself. To "finish" it in a similar style as the Ralph, they need another $500,000. There is not an extra half million sitting around in REA's pocket to pay for this - nor should that be expected. It is great that they are earning enough to service this addition debt. I see nothing wrong with asking the community and alumni to assist in making this a first class facility. It is much easier to do so now than try to fix it up later. Obviously, if things aren't done fairly nicely, it will be very noticeable in comparison with the lavishness of the Ralph next door. I will write a check to assist. I'm with you UND Fan, I don't necessarily see this as a negative. Look at it like this, UND has been given a $110 million dollar facility and a $7 million dollar facility in the past 5 years. I think the UND community should be greatful that it "only" needs to give $500,000 for construction on 2 first class facilities totaling almost $120 million. It still sounds like a good deal to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NDSU grad Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I know absolutely nothing about building construction, but why can't they just bond the remaining 500,000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
und52 Posted April 16, 2004 Share Posted April 16, 2004 I'd feel a lot more like donating some money for this effort if most of the BB games were scheduled for the new "Betty", which seems to be designed to allow the fans a more intimate atmosphere than the "Ralph" Since there aren't going to be any more Bison/Sioux games, I think the seating capacity in the "Betty" would be more than adequate. I have yet to talk with any Sioux BB fan that likes the "Ralph" as BB venue and I think we need to let the folks at UND know that. If enough of us do so, perhaps some minds can be changed, but I'm not very confident of that. Roger Thomas' email address is roger.thomas@mail.UND.nodak.edu if any of you think the way I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskies679 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 isnt "the betty" going to be used for mens and womens basketball? or is UND planning to play in rea. i could see your new gym having a great homecourt advantage like your old gym. it was kinda quiet in rea when i watched scsu and UND play hoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
und52 Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 The word is that pre-season games will be played in the "Betty" and most if not all of the conference games will be in the REA which, in my view, is way too large for the smaller crowds at BB games. Since it would likely be impossible to practice in the REA because of conflicts with the hockey team, the "Betty" is supposed be used for that also. The advantage of practicing on the court that will be played on is lost. Seems kind of silly to provide all that seating for a practice facility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxMeNow Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 It's actually a pretty good plan...the Betty will be used mainly as a practice facility and a venue for non-conference (ie lower attendance games). The Ralph will be used for conference games....(lower bowl seating only - for the most part) The fund drive is a chance for other alums to contribute to the completion of a great project. Let's face it...the coaches offices in Hyslop were basically holes in the wall and there was no impressive lobby or "tradition area" like there will be in the Betty. ALL TOLD - this will be a 120 million dollar multi-sports complex for a mostly "DII" college. (poor us...NOT!) There are a lot of DI schools....(some who shall remain nameless....OKAY....NDSU!!!....are begging for a place like this for their new-self important status but they won't get anything close unless their their big-buck alumni (?) start ponying up some $$$$ The BSA has been a PIECE-O-CRAP for a long time - we should consider ourselves fortunate we're only looking for 1/2 a mill to finish out the Betty in proper style...which it deserves considering the surroundings... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Mentioning The Betty .... http://theralph.com/construction/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux goo Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 here is the problem i have with this....is that it will be controlled by a private business...REA...not UND...which is evident by the way other things have gone...then if REA wants to make all the decisions why would the community...UND or anyone else help donate money....that would be like asking a business to donate more money besides sponsorship above and beyond the tax payer money or sponsorship money to fund the Alerus....doesnt make much sense does it??? unless that company would have a say in the goings on in the building? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 To do that, UND Sports Facilities Inc., a nonprofit support group which owns both the hockey arena and the new basketball/volleyball venue, ...Who is UND Sports Facilities Inc.? The UND Foundation proposed to Ralph Engelstad the use of a 509(a)3 support organization for making his gift. This is available for donors who wish to provide gifts for one or more 501©3 charitable nonprofit organizations and allows the donor to retain a certain amount of involvement. In the process of doing so, UND Sports Facilities Inc. was incorporated as a North Dakota 509(a)3 nonprofit corporation to serve as a support organization for the University of North Dakota and the UND Foundation. As a non-profit corporation, guess what they have to do with any profits the may acquire along the way? Give them away to a charitable organization. I wonder who UND Sports Facilities Inc.'s favorite charity is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 I find it very odd that the initial plans and specs didn't have the "finish work" included to match the existing REA. In fact, I'll eat my hat if that is indeed the case. What is probably happening, is a whole pile of change-orders came in that threw the budget off. Change orders are typical of "fast-track" projects like this one, but unlike the previous REA project, there's no "open-end account" that's covering all of it. Regardless... now they have an excuse for when our ticket packages go up again next year. Just got my stuff in the mail Saturday... not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Why do ticket prices go up? Because things cost money. The six conferences tied to football's Bowl Championship Series more than doubled their operating revenues over a 10-year period, while revenues for the five other Division I-A conferences lag far behind, according to a recent NCAA study. In 2002, the last year used in the study, the only conferences showing profits from sports were the Big Ten, Big 12, Southeastern Conference and, among non-BCS conferences, the Mountain West. Only the SEC showed profits in each of the 10 years, the association reported in The NCAA News this week. "This would lend credence to the baseline economic study last August that indicated increased spending does not necessarily lead to increased revenues," said NCAA financial analyst Daniel L. Fulks, the accounting program director at Transylvania University. Five conferences -- the Big East, Conference USA, Mid-American, Western Athletic and Sun Belt -- reported net deficits in all 10 years of the study, and the Mountain West reported more expenses than revenues in nine of the 10 years. The NCAA report said the six BCS conferences -- the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 and SEC -- increased operating revenues by 108 percent to 146 percent. However, expenses increased at a faster pace than revenues for most conferences. The largest profit in 2002 was $5.9 million for the SEC. The Big Ten was next at $4.2 million, followed by the Big 12 at $2.5 million and the Mountain West at $400,000. The Big East had the biggest losses, $3.8 million, followed by Conference USA at $3.3 million and the WAC at $2.9 million. The earlier study Fulks referred to was an eight-year look at Division I operating budgets conducted by the Brookings Institution. Those findings showed spending in athletics is not associated with more wins, does not generate more revenue, and does not improve alumni giving appreciably. "The study we've compiled on Division I-A conferences would corroborate that," Fulks said. "It also points out, however, the wide gap in both revenues and expenses between the two groups of leagues." Link to that story. Even the BCS-types are having to increase revenues to pay increasing costs. Only the SEC has been "in the black" for all ten of the years from 1993 to 2002. You have to pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airmail Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Okay... ticket prices go up because things cost money. My point was: Just got my stuff in the mail Saturday... not happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxjoy Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 What makes me crabby about the price increases (and yes, I will still pay them) is that there are 5 less home games this season, due to the WJ tournament. Added to the requirement of Fighting Sioux Club membership (which I am already a member of), the info I keep getting about the Sioux-per Gala... It just seems like all this asking for money in such a short amount of time is kind of overkill. Maybe if they had spaced it all out a little it wouldn't seem like the athletics office is greedy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux goo Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 who benefits from getting 50 percent of the ticket sales in the Ralph??? who benefits from charging rent to UND athletics?? who benefits from receiving two healthy payments from UND athletics??? seems interesting that this is a one sided benefit...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UND Fan Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I continue to be confused. Why is everyone so cynical about what is going on? The Engelstad family built us a tremendous hocky arena. The profits from the arena have helped fund all UND athletic programs - including the very expensive Women's program. Now they agreed to make the payments on a bond issue that will allow the UND BB and VB programs to have room to practice as well as play some games in a first class facility. There is nothing wrong with us fans and alumni being asked to help complete the building in a similar first class manner as the hockey arena. There was no confusion about how much it would cost to complete. The REA folks agreed to build and fund the basic arena but the finishing touches were needed to be funded by BB fans and alumni. What the heck is wrong with that? There is no conspiracy or ulterior motives! Personally, I very much dislike the atmosphere of the REA for BB - I greatly prefer Hyslop. However, the place is a dump and spending a bunch of money to get it refurbished would not have been prudent. It was also difficult recruiting as recruits prefer "new and exciting" to "old with atmosphere". Botton line - UND has gotten a great facility which is now being expanded. We need to complete it properly. If not, recruits and fans will continue to feel that BB is secondary to to hockey at UND. We all know that is basically true. However, every competing coach who is recruiting a kid who is interested in playing BB at UND, tells him that BB is a second class sport at UND. Having the new BB facility not completed nicely would reinforce that. Whether you agree with that analysis or not, there is nothing wrong with those of us who live and die with UND athletics to step up and help complete this building. We can't expect everything to be handed to us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 who benefits from getting 50 percent of the ticket sales in the Ralph??? who benefits from charging rent to UND athletics?? who benefits from receiving two healthy payments from UND athletics??? seems interesting that this is a one sided benefit...... UND Sports Facilities Inc. is a 509(a)3 nonprofit corporation. Any profit they show they have to give to a 501©3 charitable nonprofit organization. I'm pretty sure the one UND Sports Facilities would choose would be the UND Alumni Association and Foundation (especially considering Dr. Tom Clifford and Earl Strinden are on the board of UND Sports Facilities Inc.). Would you rather (a) not have the new facilities, or (b) be renting facilities from a truly private or separate organization that will provide no return to UND? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 I continue to be confused. Why is everyone so cynical about what is going on? The Engelstad family built us a tremendous hocky arena. The profits from the arena have helped fund all UND athletic programs - including the very expensive Women's program. Now they agreed to make the payments on a bond issue that will allow the UND BB and VB programs to have room to practice as well as play some games in a first class facility. There is nothing wrong with us fans and alumni being asked to help complete the building in a similar first class manner as the hockey arena. There was no confusion about how much it would cost to complete. The REA folks agreed to build and fund the basic arena but the finishing touches were needed to be funded by BB fans and alumni. What the heck is wrong with that? There is no conspiracy or ulterior motives! Personally, I very much dislike the atmosphere of the REA for BB - I greatly prefer Hyslop. However, the place is a dump and spending a bunch of money to get it refurbished would not have been prudent. It was also difficult recruiting as recruits prefer "new and exciting" to "old with atmosphere". Botton line - UND has gotten a great facility which is now being expanded. We need to complete it properly. If not, recruits and fans will continue to feel that BB is secondary to to hockey at UND. We all know that is basically true. However, every competing coach who is recruiting a kid who is interested in playing BB at UND, tells him that BB is a second class sport at UND. Having the new BB facility not completed nicely would reinforce that. Whether you agree with that analysis or not, there is nothing wrong with those of us who live and die with UND athletics to step up and help complete this building. We can't expect everything to be handed to us! It was so plainly stated, I thought it needed to be repeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sioux goo Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 would rather have it owned and run by UND athletics no other corperation PERIOD that is what i would want....and again if you think Ralph himself over his years of making tons of money cannot "cook" the books to make it look like he made or lost money you are living in another world.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 would rather have it owned and run by UND athletics no other corperation PERIOD that is what i would want....and again if you think Ralph himself over his years of making tons of money cannot "cook" the books to make it look like he made or lost money you are living in another world.... Ralph must be really good if he's doing it now, literally from another world. The guys in control now are named Strinden and Clifford. I've never doubted or questioned their allegiances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend334 Posted April 20, 2004 Share Posted April 20, 2004 Sicatoka.....unless you are on the inside knowing what is going on....dont comment on something you dont know about...and that is all i will say.....dont act like what you think you know is the way it is....thank you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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