SiouxVolley Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 Perhaps this has been answered before, but why doesn't the Alerus rent ice making equipment and host a hockey regional? They could do the same for state hockey tournaments when the Ralph is full. There have been all sorts of stadiums that have been outfitted similarly with rented equipment, so why not the Alerus? The Alerus would be packed for two days. They bid on the Curling World Championships, why not a hockey regional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Perhaps this has been answered before, but why doesn't the Alerus rent ice making equipment and host a hockey regional? They could do the same for state hockey tournaments when the Ralph is full. Their have been all sorts of stadiums that have been outfitted similarly, so why not the Alerus? The Alerus would be packed for two days. They bid on the Curling World Championships, why not a hockey regional? State hockey in the Alerus? Why? That sounds terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 3, 2016 Author Share Posted April 3, 2016 Just now, JohnboyND7 said: State hockey in the Alerus? Why? That sounds terrible. Grand Forks doesn't want to lose it to Fargo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted April 3, 2016 Share Posted April 3, 2016 In my unprofessional opinion, it's too big and it is not set up for hockey viewing. I can't think of a situation where hockey was played in a football stadium where it turned out well. Obviously playing outdoor games at The Big House or for the NHL Winter Classic are more for spectacle then for playing important hockey games. I can't even think how you would set up bleachers where you could have a good view of the rink from multiple angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, InHeavenThereIsNoBeer said: In my unprofessional opinion, it's too big and it is not set up for hockey viewing. I can't think of a situation where hockey was played in a football stadium where it turned out well. Obviously playing outdoor games at The Big House or for the NHL Winter Classic are more for spectacle then for playing important hockey games. I can't even think how you would set up bleachers where you could have a good view of the rink from multiple angles. Would think that clear boards like the St Paul Civic Center used to have would solve viewing angle problems. Don't know if those are allowed now in college hockey. Just asking why. It would sell out for all sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InHeavenThereIsNoBeer Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Just now, SiouxVolley said: Would think that clear boards like the St Paul Civic Center used to have would solve viewing angle problems. Don't know if those are allowed now in college hockey. Just asking why. It would sell out for all sessions. Sell out for UND vs Minnesota? Sure, but definitely not for State hockey. That's part of the reason they're going away from The Ralph. Even with clear boards I don't think it would be advantageous for viewing. I'm sure clear boards aren't the best option from a quality perspective or more arenas would have them. But I will admit, I looked up pictures and it is pretty neat looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 40 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Grand Forks doesn't want to lose it to Fargo. Already has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Number of seats would be similar to REA, but the viewing angles would be much worse than REA. ND State High School tournament only needs about 1/2 the number of seats that the Alerus or REA have, so why use an arena with poor viewing angles when you can use one with great viewing angles. One of the factors that convinced the NDHSAA to move the hockey tournament to Fargo was amount of money they can make. Adding costs to bring in ice making equipment can't be more cost effective than holding the tournament at REA or Scheels Arena. The quality of ice on temporary rinks usually isn't really good, especially in a building like the Alerus where it would be difficult to keep the floor level cool enough for ice for several days. That wouldn't be good for tournament play for high school or the NCAA, you need at least 3 days of good quality ice for either kind of tournament. And I don't think it makes a lot of sense to use a make-shift arena when you have quality facilities in REA and Scheels Arena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoolGuy2K Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 I was wondering the same thing about the Alerus having regionals, but yeah the viewing wouldn't be the best. I also wondered about the fargodome. I've never been in there. Would it be any better than the Alerus as far as viewing a hockey regional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 The issue is the NCAA won't allow home rinks, but would allow the Alerus with temporary ice. A successful bid must be 150 k plus profit sharing. The Alerus almost put in permanent cooling coils for a hockey setup, but was advised not to by UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 10 minutes ago, KoolGuy2K said: I was wondering the same thing about the Alerus having regionals, but yeah the viewing wouldn't be the best. I also wondered about the fargodome. I've never been in there. Would it be any better than the Alerus as far as viewing a hockey regional? The Fargo Dome has a much steeper incline and has had ice shows in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, KoolGuy2K said: I was wondering the same thing about the Alerus having regionals, but yeah the viewing wouldn't be the best. I also wondered about the fargodome. I've never been in there. Would it be any better than the Alerus as far as viewing a hockey regional? As someone else mentioned, viewing angles are always going to be difficult on a football field because of the large difference in size. Most of the arena is going to be a bigger distance away from the playing surface than in a regular hockey arena. Plus the angles are wrong. It can be fun for a novelty, but wouldn't be a good experience for a tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Just now, SiouxVolley said: The issue is the NCAA won't allow home rinks, but would allow the Alerus with temporary ice. A successful bid must be 150 k plus profit sharing. The Alerus almost put in permanent cooling coils for a hockey setup, but was advised not to by UND. Most people understand the NCAA policy on home rinks. It has also been reported that they have had discussions about changing that rule again. Using Scheels Arena as an alternative venue for the regional tournaments is a great solution. It still gives UND a home crowd in a real hockey facility without all of the extra trouble and expense. If the rules on schools hosting in their home arena changes, then UND can bring regionals back to REA. UND advised the Alerus not to put in the permanent coils because they were working on the plans for REA. The original plans included coils and made the Alerus Center a very multi-purpose facility. But it would have been a waste of city money to put the coils in when UND was going to get a state of the art hockey facility on campus. And it would have been expensive to put those coils in plus maintain them while only being used once or twice a year, if even that often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 According to Ice Rink Events, it costs around 850k to set up a temporary rink. But costs do not go up much once the rink is set up. The Alerus would have to charge around $100 per seat for the two sessions to break even on a regional what the Alerus costs to staff and the 150 k minimum the NCAA would take. If UND didn't make the regional, that would be a disaster, but most tickets would be sold. At $50 a pop, the NHL has to draw more than 25,000 to even dream of a profit. When Michigan got 100 in attendance at the Big House, every ticket sold after 25000 was profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 Why would the Alerus Center and the City of Grand Forks risk a minimum of $1 million dollars in fixed costs plus the normal game day costs, plus marketing and any other costs just for a chance to break even? Not a guarantee of breaking even, just a chance. The citizens of Grand Forks would be outraged, and with good reason. There are much better ways for Grand Forks to spend that million dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, 82SiouxGuy said: Why would the Alerus Center and the City of Grand Forks risk a minimum of $1 million dollars in fixed costs plus the normal game day costs, plus marketing and any other costs just for a chance to break even? Not a guarantee of breaking even, just a chance. The citizens of Grand Forks would be outraged, and with good reason. There are much better ways for Grand Forks to spend that million dollars. Like another Cher concert? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDPritch Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said: The Fargo Dome has a much steeper incline and has had ice shows in the past. Plus Fargodome has end zone seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: Like another Cher concert? I believe the Cher concert made money. They sold about 19,000 seats for that concert. The difference between a concert scenario and your idea is that concerts have the potential to make a profit, and usually have a potential to make a good profit. Your hockey regional scenario results in breakeven as the best possible scenario, which means that a financial loss is probable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 1 hour ago, SiouxVolley said: The Fargo Dome has a much steeper incline and has had ice shows in the past. The Alerus Center has had 1 or 2 ice shows, also. The touring companies bring in their own ice equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, GDPritch said: Plus Fargodome has end zone seats. A football field is 160 feet wide plus space on the sidelines by 360 feet long plus buffer space to the wall or stands. A hockey rink is normally about 85 feet wide by 200 feet long with seats right by the rink. Putting a hockey rink inside a football field would leave at least 50-90 feet of space between the rink and the first seat if the rink is centered on the football field. If you put the rink along side the seats on 1 or 2 sides you leave 100-200 feet of open space between the rink and first seat on the other sides. Those are not going to be good seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiouxVolley Posted April 4, 2016 Author Share Posted April 4, 2016 17 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said: I believe the Cher concert made money. They sold about 19,000 seats for that concert. The difference between a concert scenario and your idea is that concerts have the potential to make a profit, and usually have a potential to make a good profit. Your hockey regional scenario results in breakeven as the best possible scenario, which means that a financial loss is probable. I already admitted that the cost of a temporary rink was more than double what I had expected and it would be difficult for the Alerus to make it profitable without assurances that UND would be in. But somehow this is an existential threat to your postings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82SiouxGuy Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 13 minutes ago, SiouxVolley said: I already admitted that the cost of a temporary rink was more than double what I had expected and it would be difficult for the Alerus to make it profitable without assurances that UND would be in. But somehow this is an existential threat to your postings? Just stating facts. Not sure where you see a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnboyND7 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 17 hours ago, 82SiouxGuy said: A football field is 160 feet wide plus space on the sidelines by 360 feet long plus buffer space to the wall or stands. A hockey rink is normally about 85 feet wide by 200 feet long with seats right by the rink. Putting a hockey rink inside a football field would leave at least 50-90 feet of space between the rink and the first seat if the rink is centered on the football field. If you put the rink along side the seats on 1 or 2 sides you leave 100-200 feet of open space between the rink and first seat on the other sides. Those are not going to be good seats. If they used the Fargodome basketball configuration it would at least not look THAT stupid...but in the Alerus, yeah dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhockey30 Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said: If they used the Fargodome basketball configuration it would at least not look THAT stupid...but in the Alerus, yeah dumb. What does the Fargodome seat in the basketball configuration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cratter Posted April 4, 2016 Share Posted April 4, 2016 16 minutes ago, JohnboyND7 said: If they used the Fargodome basketball configuration it would at least not look THAT stupid...but in the Alerus, yeah dumb. The Alerus also has a basketball configuration, which would probably be set up for any possible hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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