Hansel Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 'bisonfan1234' is incorrect when claiming: From the DII Handbook (right after that table): Now if you go to the reference made, in the appendices, you see that Northern Colorado and UC-Davis are not DIAA tournament eligible (via qualified conference or qualified at-large, key work: qualified, meaning DIAA tourney eligible) and thus to a DII are only worth 4 points if you beat them or 1 point if you lose to them. NDSU will enter the same category next season. You are probably correct, however nowhere in the D1-AA football handbook are these qualifying independent D1-AA football institutions listed (at least I couldn't find them). The list of "at-large institutions" includes teams from non-qualifying, non-scholarship conferences (ex Drake). Using that list as the guide the only schools that wouldn't count as a qualifier would be the provisionals (Davis, UNC, etc) So the NCAA's quote Please refer to the appendixes of the 2003 NCAA Division I-AA Football Championship Handbook for a complete list of the institutions that comprise each of these automatic-qualifying conferences, as well as a list of the Division I-AA independent football institutions. is inaccurrate (imagine that) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I think the Bison made the smart decision for this season. They new they were going DIAA and started to play a schedule that represents that. You have to start new rivalries somewhere (though I doubt Montana wants to play again ). As for UND, don't do it. Playing NDSU is a big game for the state and its fans, but I'd rather win championships. Playoff-wise it would do too much damage to lose or win. Keep this in mind: We will have a conference and championship to play for while all NDSU will have is the game against us (as far as importance). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent_Bobyck Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Probably because it was the alst game of the season? Nonetheless, i don't think our rivalry with UND is any more important that SDSU's with USD....and those two have decided it would be best not to play. That is why i hope we don't play anymore. The rivalry is on the same level as USD or SDSU? Go on bisonville.com and see how many subjects have to do with those schools compared with UND. NFL Films never did a rivalry tape on you and South Dakota. NDSU vs UND is one of the best, if not THE best rivalry in Div. II, well was anyway. Lets be honest and give the rivalry the credit it deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Lets be honest and give the rivalry the credit it deserves. Don't kid yourself. The rivalry between SDSU and USD in South Dakota is every bit as great as NDSU and UND in North Dakota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 There is a difference between not-qualifying for the tournament and ***being in a non-qualifying conference***. UC-Davis is not in ANY conference...qualifying or non-qualifying. Thus, they are independent....which rewards the same points as a qualifying conference opponent. I am not closed minded on this. I will believe you that UC Davis is only worth one point, but you have to show proof of this. Show me where it specifically says that UCDavis is worth only one point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 The rivalry is on the same level as USD or SDSU? Go on bisonville.com and see how many subjects have to do with those schools compared with UND. NFL Films never did a rivalry tape on you and South Dakota. NDSU vs UND is one of the best, if not THE best rivalry in Div. II, well was anyway. Lets be honest and give the rivalry the credit it deserves. USD v SDSU = 114 years UND v NDSU = 110 years The NFL films does do our rivalry justice....but all good things must come to an end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Don't kid yourself. The rivalry between SDSU and USD in South Dakota is every bit as great as NDSU and UND in North Dakota. As PCM is the only one in this thread that I know has first-hand experience on how much attention the USD-SDSU game gets in South Dakota, I'm inclined to believe his opinion on the games' importance to the fans of those two schools. However, I do believe that UND/NDSU has drawn more regional and national attention recently because the schools have frankly fielded much better football teams than the South Dakota schools; they have frequently been playing for control of the conference and shot at a playoff appearance. Though the USD/SDSU hype in SD certainly may exceed the UND/NDSU hype in ND, I don't think the SD matchup has drawn much attention outside of South Dakota. I honestly don't understand the resurgence of this topic today -- it doesn't seem like there's anything new (other than Bison1234's coming around from criticizing UND's stance to agreeing that playing a team in another division is a bad idea)? The game still is the biggest guaranteed football draw for both schools, UND and NDSU still aren't planning on playing next season, the game will still (stupidly) hurt UND's playoff chances, and NDSU is still trying to fill out a football schedule that looks like swiss cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 'bisonfan1234' is incorrect when claiming: From the DII Handbook (right after that table): Now if you go to the reference made, in the appendices, you see that Northern Colorado and UC-Davis are not DIAA tournament eligible (via qualified conference or qualified at-large, key work: qualified, meaning DIAA tourney eligible) and thus to a DII are only worth 4 points if you beat them or 1 point if you lose to them. NDSU will enter the same category next season. I did some checking around before I calculated the strength of schedule index. I know it's confusing, but trust me on this. All of the I-AA schools, including those in transition from Division II count as 8 points for a win, 6 for a loss, EXCEPT members of the following conferences: Ivy League Big South SWAC Pioneer League Metro Atlantic The Pioneer League and Metro Atlantic are non-scholarship. The SWAC and Ivy League don't participate in the NCAA playoffs. I'm not clear as to why the Big South teams are considered different from transitional teams or current I-AA independent teams that offer limited scholarships (such as St. Mary's). The Big South is a scholarship league and many of its teams would compare fairly well to alot of the I-AA independents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charger Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I personally don't think the SDSU-USD football rivalry is as important as NDSU-UND. The SDSU-USD basketball rivalry is more important. Usually Augie is the football school and USD is the basketball school, so we have rivalries with them in their respective sports. If you look at attendance, it really doesn't go up that much when we play USD in football. I think it's a bigger deal for USD than it is for SDSU, but they still seem to think we need that game and if we want to play them, we need to come to the Dakota Dome with a "sack of money" as their radio broadcasters said. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I personally don't think the SDSU-USD football rivalry is as important as NDSU-UND. It depends on when you went to school there. When I was at SDSU, every football game between the two schools was a fiercely contested battle. Plus, the Coyotes were supplied with money and talent by USD alumnus Joe Robbie of Miami Dolphin fame. The Coyote football teams of the late 60s and early 70s were darn good. When the Jacks could beat the Coyotes, it was a big deal back then. I would agree that in recent years, the basketball rivalry has eclipsed the football rivarly, but that hasn't always been the case. And that's not really the point. The fact is, the sports rivalry between SDSU and USD is just as strong as the one between NDSU and UND. I really have no idea how you can measure the importance of fooball rivalries outside of the respective states. It seems to me that the residents of the states place far more importance and emphasis on those rivalries than anyone outside the states. I'll also point out that the debate about SDSU leaving for D-IAA has been much more hotly debated and generated more rancor around South Dakota than NDSU's move has in North Dakota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southpaw Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 It depends on when you went to school there. When I was at SDSU, every football game between the two schools was a fiercely contested battle. Did they have football back in the 1600s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verk62 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 It was a great rivalry, but if they were to continue playing with the deck stacked in NDSU's favor it would not be as great as it was when they competed on a level playing field. It would probably get to the point where they'd win 19 out of every 20 years, and I don't want to see that happen. Remember how bad they used to beat us in the '80s? It would be just as bad, if not worse. I'd rather end it now when the last memories of the series are good ones. I hate that the rivalry is coming to an end, but I blame NDSU for leaving D-2. If and when UND makes the jump up to D-1AA, then I would like to see the Sioux/Bison rivalry continue. You claim to have once played for the Sioux, but you refer to the "Bison/Sioux" game??? That makes no sense to me. All Sioux fans and players call it the "Sioux/Bison" game. It was a great rivalry, but if they were to continue playing with the deck stacked in NDSU's favor it would not be as great as it was when they competed on a level playing field. I don't agree with that statement. Obviously NDSU would have some advantage in the situation, but football is a game of extreme emotion. UND could easily get up for, compete, and win this type of game. Everyone I look at on this board seems to think that if UND plays, it will be a loss. That is just not true. How does it hurt UND to add an extra game to the schedule? NDSU played one more regular season game than UND did. (and lets hope several less post-season games) As far as the SDSU/USD game, It might be great, but both of those teams are not very good on a regular basis. That does make a difference, because neither team has really done much of anything for the past, well as long as I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 How does it hurt UND to add an extra game to the schedule? NDSU played one more regular season game than UND did. (and lets hope several less post-season games) Almost every team had one more game than UND, because we couldn't find another game to schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 RD17, Only eight conferences are allowed autobids in I-AA. The rest have to be at-large teams. That's why the Big South does not have an autobid- I-AA Playoffs, The Short Version. The Big South also only has five members, and I believe a conference has to have eight members minimum to be considered for an autobid. DaveK, The voice of Fighting Sioux football calls it the Bison/Sioux game on his left wing talk show (which allows all viewpionts), so that has to be the official version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 DaveK, The voice of Fighting Sioux football calls it the Bison/Sioux game on his left wing talk show (which allows all viewpionts), so that has to be the official version. yeah, what were we thinking. lol I mean his word is the gospel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 He is the voice of Fighting Sioux football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 He is the voice of Fighting Sioux football yeah, don't remind me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Win versus a team from a Division I or Division I-AA automatic-qualifying conference, or a Division I-AA independent opponent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 PS - I heard Coach Bohl say the UC-Davis loss was worth one point. I can't prove it beyond that. I heard Bohl and Gene Taylor both say that on sunday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 The DIAA manual explicitly lists the DIAA automatic-qualifying conferences and independents. Where does the DIAA manual list the independents? When I load the manual and do an acrobat search for the word independent no matches are found. All I see is "at-large institutions" which includes non-scholarship teams from non-automatic conferences. I also heard Taylor say on the radio last week that NDSU's SSI would be higher than emporias if emporia lost to CMSU and Fort Hays state lost. Which would be correct if NDSU got 6 points for the loss as opposed to 1. I could be wrong but I think RD17 is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCM Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Did they have football back in the 1600s? Yes, but it was back in the days when football was played with the entire pig, not just the skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Yes, but it was back in the days when football was played with the entire pig, not just the skin. I really didn't know if there were pigs back then. Wild boars maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WYOBISONMAN Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Oh no......somebison has that avtar over here too.....and I was trying to eat my lunch..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 RD17, Only eight conferences are allowed autobids in I-AA. The rest have to be at-large teams. That's why the Big South does not have an autobid- I-AA Playoffs, The Short Version. The Big South also only has five members, and I believe a conference has to have eight members minimum to be considered for an autobid. I realize the Big South doesn't have enough teams for an autobid (actually, I believe only 6 teams are necessary). What I question is why those teams are treated differently from some of the I-AA independents when it comes to points awarded in the SSI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 RD17, I hear your point. I also think the DII SSI should differentiate between an 0-11 and an 11-0 I-AA opponent from a qualifying (or even non-qualifying) conference. McNeese and Elon are not the same opponent, and should not be calculated as if they are. I think the DII SSI will be "fine-tuned" within the next couple of years. After all, the school that pushed the new SSI wasn't helped by it this year (CMSU, for those that didn't know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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