CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 RD17, I hear your point. I also think the DII SSI should differentiate between an 0-11 and an 11-0 I-AA opponent from a qualifying (or even non-qualifying) conference. McNeese and Elon are not the same opponent, and should not be calculated as if they are. I think the DII SSI will be "fine-tuned" within the next couple of years. After all, the school that pushed the new SSI wasn't helped by it this year (CMSU, for those that didn't know). I think the SSI will be fine tuned also, but as much as they tweak it, there will always be problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 bisonguy, That's the inherent problem with the SSI. It doesn't take into account the relative strength of different opponents. It's obvious (not to mention proven on the field ) that an 8-3 NCC team is alot better than an 8-3 NSIC team. I can accept the fact that no playoff selection system will ever be "perfect", but what we have now is garbage. To anyone with common sense, a win over Montana should carry significantly more weight than a win over MSU Moorhead. What worries me is that the situation isn't going to get significantly better next season. There will be four conferences that comprise UND's region. As long as the conference champ is in the regional top 10, they're guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, leaving only two at large teams. If UND significantly upgrades their non-conference schedule (DL has talked alot about this, including mentioning teams like Grand Valley and Saginaw Valley), I could easily see the Sioux going 8-3 with one of the toughest schedules in the country and not getting into the playoffs because of this stupid SSI. What is really needed is some sort of BCS type formula for ranking the teams within their respective regions. I realize people cringe when they hear the letters "BCS", but it is the fairest system for evaluating teams on a grander scale. This was considered when the SSI was designed, but I can see it being very difficult to get passed now. Schools from the NE 10 and NSIC are obviously going to be reluctant to move away from the SSI because it gets their teams in the playoffs (not to mention home field!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 bisonguy, That's the inherent problem with the SSI. It doesn't take into account the relative strength of different opponents. It's obvious (not to mention proven on the field ) that an 8-3 NCC team is alot better than an 8-3 NSIC team. I can accept the fact that no playoff selection system will ever be "perfect", but what we have now is garbage. To anyone with common sense, a win over Montana should carry significantly more weight than a win over MSU Moorhead. What worries me is that the situation isn't going to get significantly better next season. There will be four conferences that comprise UND's region. As long as the conference champ is in the regional top 10, they're guaranteed a spot in the playoffs, leaving only two at large teams. If UND significantly upgrades their non-conference schedule (DL has talked alot about this, including mentioning teams like Grand Valley and Saginaw Valley), I could easily see the Sioux going 8-3 with one of the toughest schedules in the country and not getting into the playoffs because of this stupid SSI. What is really needed is some sort of BCS type formula for ranking the teams within their respective regions. I realize people cringe when they hear the letters "BCS", but it is the fairest system for evaluating teams on a grander scale. This was considered when the SSI was designed, but I can see it being very difficult to get passed now. Schools from the NE 10 and NSIC are obviously going to be reluctant to move away from the SSI because it gets their teams in the playoffs (not to mention home field!). I know the GLIAC is moving to the Midwest Region next year, what other teams will be in it. Schools from the NE 10 and NSIC are obviously going to be reluctant to move away from the SSI because it gets their teams in the playoffs (not to mention home field!). That is one of the problems with D2 football (in other sports the difference is not nearly as significant) the "have nots" (ne-10, GNAC, CIAA, NSIC etc) have as much voting power as the "haves" (ncc, miaa, gsc... etc). I wonder what the BCS bowls would look like if the Sun-Belt, WAC, Mountain West, had as much clout as the Big 10, Pac 10 and Big 12. It could look like this... The Rose Bowl would be Ohio State versus Miami (of Ohio), Fiesta Bowl- Florida State vs North Texas (Sun belt champ gets an automatic bid). Orange Bowl Oklahoma vs Air Force. Sugar Bowl LSU versus Central Florida. I know the best teams from these non-BCS conferences are good, but they just can't compete on a consistent basis with the top BCS teams. I hope D2 gets their stuff together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 somebison, The NCC, GNAC, GLIAC, and NSIC will make up the Northwest(named for the Nothwest Airlines flights needed?) Region. RD17, I have heard rumblings from UND fans about scheduling SVSU or GVSU, but how will that be pulled off? With Gannon being added to the GLIAC next year, the GLIAC will be at 13 schools. Seven GLIAC schools had one non-conf. games this year, the rest didn't have any. With an additional school next year, GLIAC games will be hard to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 It is amazing that teams in the GLIAC all will be playing each other. There will be no non-conference games. Is this good or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 This year two GLIAC teams had ten conference games, the remaining ten teams had nine conference games. The funny thing is that some of the GLIAC members "non-conf." games are against other GLIAC opponents (Ferris vs. Hillsdale, Northwood vs. Saginaw) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Injuries and the fourth quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD17 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Grand Valley has played home and home with UC Davis the last two years. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't (or couldn't) play UND. I've heard SVSU and GVSU mentioned before, who knows whether it will actually happen or not? Dale Lennon did mention again on his coaches show the other night that if the 2004 schedule UND is currently working on comes together, the fans will be very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verk62 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 First off the fourth quarter statement is nothing, to tell you the truth I don't even understand the point. Injuries, hmmmm Well when I was at UND several of the best players never saw the field. UND gets invited walk ons (not try out athletes) that often times are better then the scholarship athletes. I hope this has changed with Lennon, but RT lets some great football players sit or walk away. I would say that between 2 and 5 of the best players at there position used to ride pine unless an injury happened. It was the case with Dietrich Flesch. The most consistant O lineman UND had would have never touched the field if it were not for an injury. When Mike George was at UND his younger brother Matt came in with my recruiting class as a non-scholarship invite. He was easily the best ILB of that class, and better than his brother in my opinion, but quit because they would not give him the credit he deserved. All he did was out perform almost all other LBs in practice and was still stuck behind all the scholarship athletes on the depth chart. I hope Dale Lennon does not allow that crap anymore. With this rant I am saying that UND has depth at many positions. Most D2 schools do not have this luxery. Injuries happen to all teams, some more than others, but its part of the game. UND has many players that could easily fill in and even take over a starting role without much drop off. It's not worth dropping the Sioux/Bison game over some what ifs and maybe's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 D1 is a big recruiting thing. Many top notch athletes from other states to the east will coem to NDSU to play D1 ball when no D1 schools in their area offer them. You say that UND has great non-scholorship reserves? Don't you think NDSU has these as well? Of course they do. So not only does NDSU have the reserves like UND but then on top of that we have the almost double the scholorship depth. So either way you look at it...NDSU is coming out on top here. It's unfair to NDSU to ruin our SOS bu playing D2 teams and the same goes for UND. So let's just call it quits for now and wait till UND goes D1. So what if we can't say tha "it's the 115th time these schools have met in a row"...we'll still be able to say "it's the 115th time these schools have met". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 bison1234 great to see you arguing with yourself and other bison fans on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 bison1234 great to see you arguing with yourself and other bison fans on here. ?? My post was in response to Verk62's last post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoteauRinkRat Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 ?? My post was in response to Verk62's last post. coming on here and discussing/debating the issues is one thing, but this "we are better than you" attitude you take in your posts really makes you sound less credible. I enjoy listening to all the bison fans points of view, because it gives me a different perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonguy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Verk62, My fourth quarter comment was a reference to depth (which also applies to injuries). UNC fans commented on that after their game against Montana. UC-Davis was the same way when they played Montana. UNC hung with them for three quarters, but in the fourth Montana's twos were coming in with little to no dropoff in talent. It helps in some spots (D line) more than others, but is still an advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verk62 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 If your #2 players have to play in the fourth quarter of a tight game, it's a problem. That type of situation should be taking care of off the field with conditioning. Players should be able to play the entire game on one side of the ball without problem. You say that UND has great non-scholorship reserves? Don't you think NDSU has these as well? Of course they do I was not trying to infer that the Bison did not have great reserves as well. It was coming from my experience at UND and what I have seen with most D2 teams. UND in the past has wasted a lot of talent. My personal feeling is that UND biggest problem in the future with be with recruiting. NDSU will in most cases get the athletes they want out of ND and MN because the D1 titile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 coming on here and discussing/debating the issues is one thing, but this "we are better than you" attitude you take in your posts really makes you sound less credible. I enjoy listening to all the bison fans points of view, because it gives me a different perspective. yeah.....you're right. UND fans, after all, don't do any thing of the sort toward NDSU fans. [this represents 1 million 'rolling eyes' pictures] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisonfan1234 Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 If your #2 players have to play in the fourth quarter of a tight game, it's a problem. That type of situation should be taking care of off the field with conditioning. Players should be able to play the entire game on one side of the ball without problem. I was not trying to infer that the Bison did not have great reserves as well. It was coming from my experience at UND and what I have seen with most D2 teams. UND in the past has wasted a lot of talent. My personal feeling is that UND biggest problem in the future with be with recruiting. NDSU will in most cases get the athletes they want out of ND and MN because the D1 titile. Although i'm definately no coach...i'd like to comment on back-ups coming into the game being a "problem. I seems to me that a lot of good eams this year are moving toward rotation to keep their players fresh. If you have 2 good running backs...why not rotate them? This worked very well for us (esp. against montana and UND....it was working against UCD as well but we fumbled which sealed the win for them). The same goes for any other position. If you have 2 competent qb's...rotate. 5 good dlinemen...rotate. etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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