Back to Memorial Stadium

[jimdahl]

So would attendance have been better, worse or about the same this past weekend, if the Sioux had played outdoors at Memorial? If you read the Cover it Live of the game, there is talk that this past Saturday would have been a good day to be outside.

I appreciate the fact that I was able to watch the game over the internet and wouldn't have been able to watch the game now with games at Memorial, as there would need to work done to broadcast from there. Still, I hope that there is a day when UND football is back outside.

GO SIOUX! BEAT THE YOTES!!

Whatever fan base makes it decisions based on weather ("today is a nice day to sit outside, so I think I'll wander over to the football game") would need to be similarly subtracted from late October-November attendance projections. At best for outdoor attendance, I think weather is a wash; more likely, it's a net negative.

I think UND's attendance woes are, alas, the risk we a lot of discussed when NDSU first proposed moving -- UND is playing a bunch of unknown teams (for home games) and achieving a mediocre record doing so. There's just no draw for the casual non-fan. NDSU's different experience came from outperforming on both fronts: 1) they managed to hype lousy opponents as "the next level", e.g. the opening game against Valpo, 2) they put together some of their best performances in recent memory during their transition. I don't know if UND didn't try as hard on point #1 or if GF'ers were already conditioned not to appreciate the novelty of "D-I" (by hockey, NDSU's move, or four years of prominent anti-IAA propaganda); #2 is just the way the ball rolls sometimes, but is also certainly a product of four years of losing recruiting battles against neighboring FCS teams.

I personally prefer outdoor football overall, but North Dakota is in a unique situation weather-wise. I would find it hard to be optimistic that a move outdoors would increase attendance, overall.

[UND92,96]

Whatever fan base makes it decisions based on weather ("today is a nice day to sit outside, so I think I'll wander over to the football game") would need to be similarly subtracted from late October-November attendance projections. At best for outdoor attendance, I think weather is a wash; more likely, it's a net negative.

I think UND's attendance woes are, alas, the risk we a lot of discussed when NDSU first proposed moving -- UND is playing a bunch of unknown teams (for home games) and achieving a mediocre record doing so. There's just no draw for the casual non-fan. NDSU's different experience came from outperforming on both fronts: 1) they managed to hype lousy opponents as "the next level", e.g. the opening game against Valpo, 2) they put together some of their best performances in recent memory during their transition. I don't know if UND didn't try as hard on point #1 or if GF'ers were already conditioned not to appreciate the novelty of "D-I" (by hockey, NDSU's move, or four years of prominent anti-IAA propaganda); #2 is just the way the ball rolls sometimes, but is also certainly a product of four years of losing recruiting battles against neighboring FCS teams.

I personally prefer outdoor football overall, but North Dakota is in a unique situation weather-wise. I would find it hard to be optimistic that a move outdoors would increase attendance, overall.

Based upon 2008, it appears that the mediocre record is more of a problem than the unknown opponents. UND actually achieved its best per-game average attendance in the first year of the transition, playing the likes of Texas A & M-Kingsville, Wisconsin-LaCrosse, St. Cloud St., Western Washington and Southern Utah. SCSU was the only opponent that season with any meaningful history against UND. But the big difference was at that point, we as fans were used to winning 70% to 90% of our games year in and year out, and there was still a fair amount of excitement notwithstanding the poor home schedule.

While 2008 and 2009 weren't disastrous record-wise, a handful of lop-sided losses and/or poor performances have seemingly harmed fan enthusiasm to the point of turning off a significant percentage of the casual fans.

[GeauxSioux]

Whatever fan base makes it decisions based on weather ("today is a nice day to sit outside, so I think I'll wander over to the football game") would need to be similarly subtracted from late October-November attendance projections. At best for outdoor attendance, I think weather is a wash; more likely, it's a net negative.

I think UND's attendance woes are, alas, the risk we a lot of discussed when NDSU first proposed moving -- UND is playing a bunch of unknown teams (for home games) and achieving a mediocre record doing so. There's just no draw for the casual non-fan. NDSU's different experience came from outperforming on both fronts: 1) they managed to hype lousy opponents as "the next level", e.g. the opening game against Valpo, 2) they put together some of their best performances in recent memory during their transition. I don't know if UND didn't try as hard on point #1 or if GF'ers were already conditioned not to appreciate the novelty of "D-I" (by hockey, NDSU's move, or four years of prominent anti-IAA propaganda); #2 is just the way the ball rolls sometimes, but is also certainly a product of four years of losing recruiting battles against neighboring FCS teams.

I personally prefer outdoor football overall, but North Dakota is in a unique situation weather-wise. I would find it hard to be optimistic that a move outdoors would increase attendance, overall.

My hope would be that bringing football back on campus would increase student involvement/attendance. I think you and others are right when you say that GF has been conditioned to expect high level competition due to hockey. FCS football is not going to bring that.

Somehow you need the students involved. Off campus football doesn't do it.

[jimdahl]

My hope would be that bringing football back on campus would increase student involvement/attendance. I think you and others are right when you say that GF has been conditioned to expect high level competition due to hockey. FCS football is not going to bring that.

Somehow you need the students involved. Off campus football doesn't do it.

Good point. I was more focused on indoor vs. outdoor, but off-campus vs. on-campus is a very important dimension. For students to live around, and be able to walk easily to and from, the football stadium is a big part of the game-day experience. Tailgating at the Metrodome was never quite the same as hitting Regent St. (Madison) at 9am on game day.

[Westside]

My hope would be that bringing football back on campus would increase student involvement/attendance. I think you and others are right when you say that GF has been conditioned to expect high level competition due to hockey. FCS football is not going to bring that.

Somehow you need the students involved. Off campus football doesn't do it.

Do they run the University buses to The Alerus from campus on game days? This could be a pretty easy way to increase student attendance, if it's not being done already. Make it easy for them to get to the Alerus. (and don't search their backpacks when they get on the bus )

It was great just walking over to Memorial back in the day. Granted, we ended up at Judy's mid 3rd quarter, but we still made every game.

I was pretty disappointed to walk through the Alerus tailgate lot last year's homecoming game & see so few students. Bottom line is you gotta make it an "event" & entertaining for the students to show up now. Winning always helps too...

[GeauxSioux]

Do they run the University buses to The Alerus from campus on game days? This could be a pretty easy way to increase student attendance, if it's not being done already. Make it easy for them to get to the Alerus. (and don't search their backpacks when they get on the bus )

It was great just walking over to Memorial back in the day. Granted, we ended up at Judy's mid 3rd quarter, but we still made every game.

I was pretty disappointed to walk through the Alerus tailgate lot last year's homecoming game & see so few students. Bottom line is you gotta make it an "event" & entertaining for the students to show up now. Winning always helps too...

We probably saw each other quite a few times if this was your MO.

[82SiouxGuy]

Do they run the University buses to The Alerus from campus on game days? This could be a pretty easy way to increase student attendance, if it's not being done already. Make it easy for them to get to the Alerus. (and don't search their backpacks when they get on the bus )

It was great just walking over to Memorial back in the day. Granted, we ended up at Judy's mid 3rd quarter, but we still made every game.

I was pretty disappointed to walk through the Alerus tailgate lot last year's homecoming game & see so few students. Bottom line is you gotta make it an "event" & entertaining for the students to show up now. Winning always helps too...

They run buses from the Chester Fritz lot, and I think from the east end of campus also. I don't think they search backpacks on the bus, but they do in the building. Unfortunately, that's a fact of life in any building of any size for events these days.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I always used to be a big yapper about how football ought to be played outside and that indoor football kills the atmosphere....etc. Now that I am knocking on age 50, I have to say it is damn nice to go into the Fargodome after a cold afternoon of tailgating. I suspect if FB was played outside in Fargo it would cut attendance between 33%-40%.

[Local Boy]

I missed this point. Does anyone know why UND signed a 10 year lease with The Alerus Center? I'm just wondering.

[The Sicatoka]

30+ mph winds

20 below F wind chills.

Blinding blizzards.

Yeah, those will draw a crowd.

How soon we forget.

[82SiouxGuy]

30+ mph winds

20 below F wind chills.

Blinding blizzards.

Yeah, those will draw a crowd.

How soon we forget.

Forget days like November 29, 1975 when Livingston came to Grand Forks to play. The temp at game time was 28 with 10-15 mph winds out of the northwest that got stronger through the game. Attendance was 5,212; and Livingston won 34-14.

Or November 20, 1993 when Pittsburg State came to visit. Game time temps were a balmy 41 with winds out of the south gusting from 10 to 20 mph. Attendance was a huge 3,759. UND won by a score of 17-14. Which set up...

November 27, 1993 when conference foe Mankato State made a play-off appearance at Memorial. 15 frosty degrees greeted the crowd that day and 3,047 hardy souls made the trip. UND won big, 54-21.

Or November 19, 1994 when Northeast Missouri made the trip. They found high temps of 30 degrees with a little rain and a 7 mph wind with gusts up to 21. 3,520 people watched UND win that game 18-6.

Even ideal November weather of 35 degrees, sunshine and a SE wind of 10-20 mph on November 18, 1995 and a fierce rival in NDSU could only bring out 5,595. We won't talk about the score in this one.

Those were the post-season games hosted at Memorial. High temps on game days for play-off games in the Alerus Center have ranged from a high of 62 to as low as 19, with most game day highs in the 20's and lower 30's. Those are the normal temps in mid to late November and early December. If we couldn't get even 6,000 for a play-off game against NDSU, at a time when the rivalry was at its strongest, what are the odds that attendance would average more than 5,000 for games in November no matter who comes to town if they moved back outdoors.

[mizzou/sioux]

Good point. I was more focused on indoor vs. outdoor, but off-campus vs. on-campus is a very important dimension. For students to live around, and be able to walk easily to and from, the football stadium is a big part of the game-day experience. Tailgating at the Metrodome was never quite the same as hitting Regent St. (Madison) at 9am on game day.

I quite agree with the electricity surrending Camp Randall Stadium in Madison on game day. The campus is buzzing with excitement. Fans stream in for breakfast at a variety of venues near the stadium. The UW band performs in a plaza. Brats and brews add to the flavor. Fans, mostly decked out in Wisconsin red, are swarming all around. I went to graduate school at Missouri with a friend who was a Badger undergraduate. I've fully appreciated every trip I've made to Madison. This has got to be one of the best college football venues in the nation. It's what college football game day is all about.

[darell1976]

Forget days like November 29, 1975 when Livingston came to Grand Forks to play. The temp at game time was 28 with 10-15 mph winds out of the northwest that got stronger through the game. Attendance was 5,212; and Livingston won 34-14.

Or November 20, 1993 when Pittsburg State came to visit. Game time temps were a balmy 41 with winds out of the south gusting from 10 to 20 mph. Attendance was a huge 3,759. UND won by a score of 17-14. Which set up...

November 27, 1993 when conference foe Mankato State made a play-off appearance at Memorial. 15 frosty degrees greeted the crowd that day and 3,047 hardy souls made the trip. UND won big, 54-21.

Or November 19, 1994 when Northeast Missouri made the trip. They found high temps of 30 degrees with a little rain and a 7 mph wind with gusts up to 21. 3,520 people watched UND win that game 18-6.

Even ideal November weather of 35 degrees, sunshine and a SE wind of 10-20 mph on November 18, 1995 and a fierce rival in NDSU could only bring out 5,595. We won't talk about the score in this one.

Those were the post-season games hosted at Memorial. High temps on game days for play-off games in the Alerus Center have ranged from a high of 62 to as low as 19, with most game day highs in the 20's and lower 30's. Those are the normal temps in mid to late November and early December. If we couldn't get even 6,000 for a play-off game against NDSU, at a time when the rivalry was at its strongest, what are the odds that attendance would average more than 5,000 for games in November no matter who comes to town if they moved back outdoors.

I was at those games. The weather didn't bother you if the Sioux were winning but if the Sioux were losing it made it a very cold game.

[Matt]

The game that killed me was Nov 14th 1998. A 14-9 home loss to Northern Colorado. High of 33 with gusts to 30mph. I don't even know what the announced attendance was, it was so horrible. A terrible thank you to one of the all time great Sioux teams. The loss put the team on the road back to Greeley for the playoffs. Unfortunate for Kleinsasser, Moore, et al. that McGuffy played at the same time.

[UND92,96]

The game that killed me was Nov 14th 1998. A 14-9 home loss to Northern Colorado. High of 33 with gusts to 30mph. I don't even know what the announced attendance was, it was so horrible. A terrible thank you to one of the all time great Sioux teams. The loss put the team on the road back to Greeley for the playoffs. Unfortunate for Kleinsasser, Moore, et al. that McGuffy played at the same time.

I don't have any specific memory of the crowd that day, but I do recall an extremely slippery turf which greatly hindered play, and a dropped pass very late in the game...

[mizzou/sioux]

I don't have any specific memory of the crowd that day, but I do recall an extremely slippery turf which greatly hindered play, and a dropped pass very late in the game...

I was at that game as well. Believe the potential (and very likely) game-winning pass was dropped in the end zone with less than a minute or so to go that very likely would have turned a 14-9 deficit into a 16-14 lead and most likely a victory over Northern Colorado. Had that happened it's also most likely the Sioux would have again hosted Northern Colorado instead of having to go out to Greeley the very next weekend.

[GeauxSioux]

30+ mph winds

20 below F wind chills.

Blinding blizzards.

Yeah, those will draw a crowd.

How soon we forget.

With the above in mind and the fact that SDSU only had 3918 for the UND game, I'm correcting the title of this thread to "Back on campus to a domed stadium". There was a lot of chatter in the last week about NDSU's attendance for the playoff game. Imagine if that had been played outside.

I watched the Saints play the Bengals yesterday in Cincinnati and saw a half-empty stadium shivering. Sure the attendance says 59,000. No way.

I'll just have my memories of Memorial drinking schnapps laced hot chocolate.

[The Sicatoka]

Unless you create a "keep me warm for three plus hours" app for an iPod or smart phone* this generation students will not stand in the cold to watch football.

*James "Jack" Daniels and James "Jim" Beam have each created such an "app" but not for an iPod or smart phone.

[82SiouxGuy]

With the above in mind and the fact that SDSU only had 3918 for the UND game, I'm correcting the title of this thread to "Back on campus to a domed stadium". There was a lot of chatter in the last week about NDSU's attendance for the playoff game. Imagine if that had been played outside.

I watched the Saints play the Bengals yesterday in Cincinnati and saw a half-empty stadium shivering. Sure the attendance says 59,000. No way.

I'll just have my memories of Memorial drinking schnapps laced hot chocolate.

Forecast for this Saturday in Grand Forks (since FCS teams are still playing home games in the playoffs).

Saturday: Cloudy, with a high near 8.

I don't think that I would want to sit through a game at Memorial at 8 degrees.

[GeauxSioux]

Forecast for this Saturday in Grand Forks (since FCS teams are still playing home games in the playoffs).

I don't think that I would want to sit through a game at Memorial at 8 degrees.

Liar!! You'd be out there, as would I.

[82SiouxGuy]

Liar!! You'd be out there, as would I.

I didn't say I wouldn't be there, I said I wouldn't want to be. I would probably put on about 6 layers of clothes and show up like I do for pretty much every home game unless I have to work.