Montana and FBS: moving in that direction?

[MplsBison]

The "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" is accurate, but perhaps the nickname is really the "bird in hand". If UND drops the nickname now - perhaps 40% of its fans would be royally ticked off - and 10-15% ticked off enough that they become non-fans. The upside of changing the name is almost nothing: the PC types that refuse to go to Engelstad arena will continue not going, because Ralph was a rich white man who's actions upset them. The Ralph will always be a rallying point within the PC movement at UND: next, they'll want "The Ralph" name dropped. An anti-Ralph move is practically inevitable if and when the Sioux name is dropped: the PC forces must have an object of their grievances and scorn.

As far as the Summit, since it is a feeder league to the Horizon and Missouri Valley, it is entirely possible that it could lose the number of members required to maintain an autobid. For all we know now, the Summit may just be a mirage - it's autobid disappearing shortly after we join.

Big East split: large media privates Dayton, Xavier, Butler, St Louis to BB Big East

Atlantic Ten: adds the Horizon privates Detroit, Loyola, Valpo, and maybe even Ohio publics Cleveland St, Wright St to compensate for Dayton/Xavier

Horizon: adds IUPUI, Oakland, IPFW, and maybe even W Ill to fill Detroit/Indy/Ill holes

S Utah gone to Big Sky, ORU to Southland (with UTSA and TXST gone) or MVC (Ill St or Mo St gone)

The same type scenario happened to the Summit in 1994 and the Summit barely survived: it can easily happen again.

Suddenly, the Summit is down to 4-5 teams without UND, but needs eight. Effectively, the old NCC has to reform (adding UNO and others etc) for an autobid, and UND would have sold it's soul for a non-autobid conference.

Review the history of the Summit: it is furthest thing possible from an island of stability and has had to continuously reinvent itself to remain an autobid conference. By becoming Dakota-centric, that type geography drives away most other schools and creates more instability. I'm not advocating staying in the Great West or anything of that nature: but it is inevitable that the Summit will have major membership turmoil as it has always struggled to maintain it's autobid.

It's sad to see that you've thrown your hat in with the 'emotion over logic' crowd that would prefer not to join the Summit if it means keeping the nickname. Selfish, childish and foolish.

Nothing you said is incorrect, but there's absolutely no reason to think the Summit won't be an auto-bid conference when UND is ready to join in a couple years. And having those 4 core Dakota flagship schools creates a stable nucleus for membership.

[82SiouxGuy]

The "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" is accurate, but perhaps the nickname is really the "bird in hand". If UND drops the nickname now - perhaps 40% of its fans would be royally ticked off - and 10-15% ticked off enough that they become non-fans. The upside of changing the name is almost nothing: the PC types that refuse to go to Engelstad arena will continue not going, because Ralph was a rich white man who's actions upset them. The Ralph will always be a rallying point within the PC movement at UND: next, they'll want "The Ralph" name dropped. An anti-Ralph move is practically inevitable if and when the Sioux name is dropped: the PC forces must have an object of their grievances and scorn.

As far as the Summit, since it is a feeder league to the Horizon and Missouri Valley, it is entirely possible that it could lose the number of members required to maintain an autobid. For all we know now, the Summit may just be a mirage - it's autobid disappearing shortly after we join.

Big East split: large media privates Dayton, Xavier, Butler, St Louis to BB Big East

Atlantic Ten: adds the Horizon privates Detroit, Loyola, Valpo, and maybe even Ohio publics Cleveland St, Wright St to compensate for Dayton/Xavier

Horizon: adds IUPUI, Oakland, IPFW, and maybe even W Ill to fill Detroit/Indy/Ill holes

S Utah gone to Big Sky, ORU to Southland (with UTSA and TXST gone) or MVC (Ill St or Mo St gone)

The same type scenario happened to the Summit in 1994 and the Summit barely survived: it can easily happen again.

Suddenly, the Summit is down to 4-5 teams without UND, but needs eight. Effectively, the old NCC has to reform (adding UNO and others etc) for an autobid, and UND would have sold it's soul for a non-autobid conference.

Review the history of the Summit: it is furthest thing possible from an island of stability and has had to continuously reinvent itself to remain an autobid conference. By becoming Dakota-centric, that type geography drives away most other schools and creates more instability. I'm not advocating staying in the Great West or anything of that nature: but it is inevitable that the Summit will have major membership turmoil as it has always struggled to maintain it's autobid.

The Summit is still more of a sure thing than anything else on the table. Every scenario you bring up is just hypothetical, there is nothing concrete about them. The Summit is currently an autobid conference. And even if the rule changes happen that they are talking about it will be easier to form as a currently active conference than to try to start a new conference. Joining the Summit has a lot of advantages. And the geography problems of the Dakotas will remain no matter what happens with conference changes.

I would be much more likely to advocate for pushing the nickname issue if we weren't already approaching the drop dead deadline. We are now less than 10 months away from the absolute deadline. We are less than 300 days away. There are a lot of things that would have to happen to keep the nickname by the deadline. It is going to take some time for those things to happen even under the best of circumstances and we are not operating under the best of circumstances. It takes time to get petitions signed, for the tribal council to debate the issue, for an election to be scheduled and held, etc. So things have to start happening soon in order for them to get done by the November 30th deadline. I don't see or hear anything about actual movement. That decreases my confidence in getting anything done (and that confidence level is already very low from watching the situation develop over the past 40 plus years).

Keeping the nickname isn't the proverbial "bird in the hand". You and several others seem to believe that keeping the nickname is a sure thing if they are given enough time. First, there may not be enough time. Government runs slow and tribal government runs slower. Second, it isn't a sure thing even if they are given the rest of eternity. The odds are still against keeping the nickname even if every possible second of the deadline is used. There is no information out there, at least in any public form, that says Standing Rock will approve the nickname at any time.

There are 2 huge unknowns in this situation, whether the tribes would ultimately give the proper approval by the deadline and what the conference landscape will look like in 3-5 years. If you could accurately predict either 1 you could make a much more informed decision. If you can't you have to use the information that you currently have. And logic tells you a bird in the hand (conference membership) is worth more than 2 in the bush (keeping the nickname and getting conference membership).

[star2city]

It's sad to see that you've thrown your hat in with the 'emotion over logic' crowd that would prefer not to join the Summit if it means keeping the nickname. Selfish, childish and foolish.

Nothing you said is incorrect, but there's absolutely no reason to think the Summit won't be an auto-bid conference when UND is ready to join in a couple years.

Contradicting yourself there.

And having those 4 core Dakota flagship schools creates a stable nucleus for membership.

Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc would rather not be in the same conference as four Dakota schools. With a shot at the Horizon, they'd be gone in a blink.

I would be much more likely to advocate for pushing the nickname issue if we weren't already approaching the drop dead deadline. We are now less than 10 months away from the absolute deadline. We are less than 300 days away. There are a lot of things that would have to happen to keep the nickname by the deadline. It is going to take some time for those things to happen even under the best of circumstances and we are not operating under the best of circumstances. It takes time to get petitions signed, for the tribal council to debate the issue, for an election to be scheduled and held, etc. So things have to start happening soon in order for them to get done by the November 30th deadline. I don't see or hear anything about actual movement. That decreases my confidence in getting anything done (and that confidence level is already very low from watching the situation develop over the past 40 plus years).

Didn't you hear the news? A petition campaign is ongoing to nullify the moratorium on a referendum. That's a significant change. An actual referendum would be next.

Keeping the nickname isn't the proverbial "bird in the hand". You and several others seem to believe that keeping the nickname is a sure thing if they are given enough time. First, there may not be enough time. Government runs slow and tribal government runs slower. Second, it isn't a sure thing even if they are given the rest of eternity. The odds are still against keeping the nickname even if every possible second of the deadline is used. There is no information out there, at least in any public form, that says Standing Rock will approve the nickname at any time.

I don't believe that the nickname staying is a sure thing: maybe a 20-30% chance. Ten months is not too much to ask. After all the Spirit Lake people have done, it would be ethically despicable to throw in the towel now. The Summit League officials have shown they are not exactly our friends, basically dictating a change to a legal timetable. Contrast that with the Spirit Lake people, who have given hearts and souls to the effort. So let's shove the Spirit Lake people aside and do the politically expedient thing and embrace the PC weasels of the Summit League? Crap, with the impending conference realignment, the Summit League practically has to add us: it need 12 or even 14 to survive.

The ethical choices are very clear:

Be patient for 10 months, be hopeful and courageous, show thankfulness to the Spirit Lake tribe and members of Standing Rock, give the process a chance, and let the chips fall where they may.

or

Panic at the thought of being left out, embrace some holier-than-thou organization, spite our friends, participate in manipulation, disavow the very substance of our nickname by acting cowardly in the face of fear.

It's clear which choice a healthy organization or person chooses.

Unfortunately, I don't have faith the NDBoHE will even comprehend what's at stake.

[Herd]

The Summit League's stance with UND is no different than the stance you would get from any other established conference. Do you think that the Big Sky, Horizon, WAC, (filling in the blank) would come out and offer membership under the current circumstances? You have a timetable for resolution, but no resolution. You would get a wait and see across the board from any established conference. This notion of the the Summit making unrealistic demands is kind of crazy. Heck the NSIC would be taking a wait and see.

[Bison Dan]

Contradicting yourself there.

Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc would rather not be in the same conference as four Dakota schools. With a shot at the Horizon, they'd be gone in a blink.

Didn't you hear the news? A petition campaign is ongoing to nullify the moratorium on a referendum. That's a significant change. An actual referendum would be next.

I don't believe that the nickname staying is a sure thing: maybe a 20-30% chance. Ten months is not too much to ask. After all the Spirit Lake people have done, it would be ethically despicable to throw in the towel now. The Summit League officials have shown they are not exactly our friends, basically dictating a change to a legal timetable. Contrast that with the Spirit Lake people, who have given hearts and souls to the effort. So let's shove the Spirit Lake people aside and do the politically expedient thing and embrace the PC weasels of the Summit League? Crap, with the impending conference realignment, the Summit League practically has to add us: it need 12 or even 14 to survive.

The ethical choices are very clear:

Be patient for 10 months, be hopeful and courageous, show thankfulness to the Spirit Lake tribe and members of Standing Rock, give the process a chance, and let the chips fall where they may.

or

Panic at the thought of being left out, embrace some holier-than-thou organization, spite our friends, participate in manipulation, disavow the very substance of our nickname by acting cowardly in the face of fear.

It's clear which choice a healthy organization or person chooses.

Unfortunately, I don't have faith the NDBoHE will even comprehend what's at stake.

I love how you blame the NDBoHE for this - the only reason they're in it is because UND's admin asked them to be the fall guy. If the admin wanted to wait until Nov. the NDBoHE would let it.

[MoSiouxFan]

Contradicting yourself there.

Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc would rather not be in the same conference as four Dakota schools. With a shot at the Horizon, they'd be gone in a blink.

Didn't you hear the news? A petition campaign is ongoing to nullify the moratorium on a referendum. That's a significant change. An actual referendum would be next.

I don't believe that the nickname staying is a sure thing: maybe a 20-30% chance. Ten months is not too much to ask. After all the Spirit Lake people have done, it would be ethically despicable to throw in the towel now. The Summit League officials have shown they are not exactly our friends, basically dictating a change to a legal timetable. Contrast that with the Spirit Lake people, who have given hearts and souls to the effort. So let's shove the Spirit Lake people aside and do the politically expedient thing and embrace the PC weasels of the Summit League? Crap, with the impending conference realignment, the Summit League practically has to add us: it need 12 or even 14 to survive.

The ethical choices are very clear:

Be patient for 10 months, be hopeful and courageous, show thankfulness to the Spirit Lake tribe and members of Standing Rock, give the process a chance, and let the chips fall where they may.

or

Panic at the thought of being left out, embrace some holier-than-thou organization, spite our friends, participate in manipulation, disavow the very substance of our nickname by acting cowardly in the face of fear.

It's clear which choice a healthy organization or person chooses.

Unfortunately, I don't have faith the NDBoHE will even comprehend what's at stake.

Good post.

[DamStrait]

The Summit League's stance with UND is no different than the stance you would get from any other established conference. Do you think that the Big Sky, Horizon, WAC, (filling in the blank) would come out and offer membership under the current circumstances? You have a timetable for resolution, but no resolution. You would get a wait and see across the board from any established conference. This notion of the the Summit making unrealistic demands is kind of crazy. Heck the NSIC would be taking a wait and see.

Total and complete steaming BS.

[MplsBison]

Contradicting yourself there.

Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc would rather not be in the same conference as four Dakota schools. With a shot at the Horizon, they'd be gone in a blink.

Didn't you hear the news? A petition campaign is ongoing to nullify the moratorium on a referendum. That's a significant change. An actual referendum would be next.

I don't believe that the nickname staying is a sure thing: maybe a 20-30% chance. Ten months is not too much to ask. After all the Spirit Lake people have done, it would be ethically despicable to throw in the towel now. The Summit League officials have shown they are not exactly our friends, basically dictating a change to a legal timetable. Contrast that with the Spirit Lake people, who have given hearts and souls to the effort. So let's shove the Spirit Lake people aside and do the politically expedient thing and embrace the PC weasels of the Summit League? Crap, with the impending conference realignment, the Summit League practically has to add us: it need 12 or even 14 to survive.

The ethical choices are very clear:

Be patient for 10 months, be hopeful and courageous, show thankfulness to the Spirit Lake tribe and members of Standing Rock, give the process a chance, and let the chips fall where they may.

or

Panic at the thought of being left out, embrace some holier-than-thou organization, spite our friends, participate in manipulation, disavow the very substance of our nickname by acting cowardly in the face of fear.

It's clear which choice a healthy organization or person chooses.

Unfortunately, I don't have faith the NDBoHE will even comprehend what's at stake.

You don't know any more than anyone else on here that the Summit league will have to add UND, for any reason.

It would also be completely ethical to retire the nickname now if the SR leadership is purposefully tabling the issue, in order to stall out having to do something about it.

Don't let your emotions overcome your logic.

[star2city]

The Summit League's stance with UND is no different than the stance you would get from any other established conference. Do you think that the Big Sky, Horizon, WAC, (filling in the blank) would come out and offer membership under the current circumstances? You have a timetable for resolution, but no resolution. You would get a wait and see across the board from any established conference. This notion of the the Summit making unrealistic demands is kind of crazy. Heck the NSIC would be taking a wait and see.

Rumors are continuing and pervasive, Utah/Colorado to PAC10, that Utah and Colorado will invited to the PAC10. Utah loses the right to the Ute name if the Ute tribe reneges on it's approval, which is possible. So based on your so-called logic, the PAC10 should never ever consider Utah? PAC10 schools are some of the most liberal in the country, only rivaled by Minnesota,Wisconsin, Iowa and the Ivies. Your dislike of UND so taints your view of the world, that you refuse to see the Summit's stand as non-normal.

Arkansas State was not threatened by the Sunbelt to be tossed out when Arkansas State was deliberating on keeping it's nickname and just foregoing hosting NCAA playoffs. UND is in compliance with all NCAA policies and is legally bound to an NCAA agreement. You're saying the Summit wants something stronger than a legally-binding agreement, when the PAC10 would add a school with an Indian nickname with no legally binding agreement? Your logic is totally absurd.

This is all about Douple and Summit President's wanting to score political points with the NCAA because UND had a lawsuit with them.

[MoSiouxFan]

said the goalie.

Good one!

P. S. Sorry about the misspelling.

[MplsBison]

Rumors are continuing and pervasive, Utah/Colorado to PAC10, that Utah and Colorado will invited to the PAC10. Utah loses the right to the Ute name if the Ute tribe reneges on it's approval, which is possible. So based on your so-called logic, the PAC10 should never ever consider Utah? PAC10 schools are some of the most liberal in the country, only rivaled by Minnesota,Wisconsin, Iowa and the Ivies. Your dislike of UND so taints your view of the world, that you refuse to see the Summit's stand as non-normal.

Arkansas State was not threatened by the Sunbelt to be tossed out when Arkansas State was deliberating on keeping it's nickname and just foregoing hosting NCAA playoffs. UND is in compliance with all NCAA policies and is legally bound to an NCAA agreement. You're saying the Summit wants something stronger than a legally-binding agreement, when the PAC10 would add a school with an Indian nickname with no legally binding agreement? Your logic is totally absurd.

This is all about Douple and Summit President's wanting to score political points with the NCAA because UND had a lawsuit with them.

Every time you throw one of your emotional temper tantrums on this issue, I'm going to call you on it.

Utah's nickname issue is fully resolved, as far as anyone is concerned. Therefore, no conference would ever be concerned with any potential negative PR issue stemming from the Ute nickname.

Arkansas State is a red herring. UND is not Ark St. Furthremore, Ark St DID change its nickname, in order to be in compliance. Their nickname issue is resolved.

UND's nickname issue is not resolved. The Summit taking a cautious approach is no different than any other conference would.

Keep your emotions in check, please.

[star2city]

You don't know any more than anyone else on here that the Summit league will have to add UND, for any reason.

Hmm, Big Ten expanding, Pac10 expanding, Big East, Big 12, MWC, WAC all awaiting huge hits, and somehow you believe the Summit is an island of stability? You been given evidence that the Summit is the least stable of any league, and yet you deny that the impending tsunami of conference change will impact the Summit!! Apparently, to you, what's up is down and down is up.

It would also be completely ethical to retire the nickname now if the SR leadership is purposefully tabling the issue, in order to stall out having to do something about it.

Wrong again. But then, this is the same poster who can't comprehend any of Chapman's unethical actions that led to Chapman's forced resignation were any more than unforced errors. Appalling lack of ethical wisdom.

[MplsBison]

Hmm, Big Ten expanding, Pac10 expanding, Big East, Big 12, MWC, WAC all awaiting huge hits, and somehow you believe the Summit is an island of stability? You been given evidence that the Summit is the least stable of any league, and yet you deny that the impending tsunami of conference change will impact the Summit!! Apparently, to you, what's up is down and down is up.

Wrong again. But then, this is the same poster who can't comprehend any of Chapman's unethical actions that led to Chapman's forced resignation were any more than unforced errors. Appalling lack of ethical wisdom.

The Summit will be adding members in the future. UND is also the best of the currently available schools to add, but may not neccesarily be in the not too distant future. And thus, you have failed to show why the Summit will have no choice but to add UND.

I actually find it very plausible that the impending conference expansions could free up another school that is even more attractive to the current Summit members than UND.

All the more reason to act now and secure UND's spot in the Summit until the dust settles from conference reorganization and at that time UND can re-assess its conference affiliation.

And of course it is perfectly ethical for the SBoHE to tell UND to retire the nickname if it's clear that the SR leaders are refusing to cooperate. I dare you to attempt to explain otherwise.

Here are some names with whom you may want to familiarize yourself:

24 Brekke, Brandon F/C 6-6 215 Fr. East Grand Forks, Minn. (East Grand Forks High School)

32 Schuler, Josh G 6-2 175 Fr. Urbana, Ohio (Graham High School)

12 Allard, Jordan G 6-7 205 RFr. Fargo, N.D. (Fargo South High School)

33 Archer, Doug F/C 6-7 196 RFr. Conception Junction, Mo. (Jefferson High School)

23 Goodman, Spencer F 6-5 177 RFr. Jackson, Mo. (Jackson High School)

2 Haugen, Nick G 6-2 188 RFr. Rockford, Minn. (Rockford High School)

40 Stockdale, Dan F 6-7 188 RFr. Sheboygan, Wis. (Sheboygan North High School)

22 Wilmer, Mitch C 6-11 227 RFr. Warroad, Minn. (Warroad High School)

These are the seniors of UND men's basketball for the 2012/13 and 2013/14 seasons.

These are the players that you would rather deny their only legitimate shot at making the NCAA men's bball tournament via winning the Summit league bball tournament than to see the nickname retired 9 months early.

That's the only thing I find appalling.

[The Sicatoka]

Every time you throw one of your emotional temper tantrums on this issue, I'm going to call you on it.

You have some way to know the emotional state of 'star2city' when he posts something?

Is that an add-in to my browser that I'm missing?

[The Sicatoka]

And of course it is perfectly ethical for the SBoHE to tell UND to retire the nickname if it's clear that the SR leaders are refusing to cooperate.

Is it clear that they are refusing to cooperate?

Last I heard, there's a petition drive on-going to revoke the moratorium on referendums on the reservation. I don't see the Standing Rock leaders saying much of anything (either way) about that. It seems reasonable to me to be patient and let that process play out as that's how Spirit Lake established a foundation to their "perpetual" support resolution.

[MplsBison]

Is it clear that they are refusing to cooperate?

Last I heard, there's a petition drive on-going to revoke the moratorium on referendums on the reservation. I don't see the Standing Rock leaders saying much of anything (either way) about that. It seems reasonable to me to be patient and let that process play out as that's how Spirit Lake established a foundation to their "perpetual" support resolution.

Petition drives are not coming from SR leaders.

I'm not saying the SR leaders are not cooperating, yet. It would seem to me, however, that they don't really care about this issue or they would've done something public.

[star2city]

Petition drives are not coming from SR leaders.

I'm not saying the SR leaders are not cooperating, yet. It would seem to me, however, that they don't really care about this issue or they would've done something public.

Petition drives never came from Spirit Lake leaders either, nor did they cooperate. Their constituents voted, and the leaders responded. Much like what has been occurring after the shocking upset of Scott Brown in Massachusetts.

[the green team]

Notice when you actually mention the players that could be affected by name, no one wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. But it is true people don't really care about those student athletes. Which is horrible. I for one feel terrible for our athletes in limbo.

[MplsBison]

Petition drives never came from Spirit Lake leaders either, nor did they cooperate. Their constituents voted, and the leaders responded. Much like what has been occurring after the shocking upset of Scott Brown in Massachusetts.

I'm not saying the latest development on the SR should be quickly swept under the rug. Not at all.

It's nice to see something finally happening.

What I am doing is slamming the door shut on your ridiculous emotional appeal by pointing out that if the SR was purposefully stalling the nickname issue, then it would not be unethical to retire it early. Not a chance.

[MplsBison]

Notice when you actually mention the players that could be affected by name, no one wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. But it is true people don't really care about those student athletes. Which is horrible. I for one feel terrible for our athletes in limbo.

No kidding!

The nickname supporters will use emotional appeals and scream/shout about the brave warriors on the tribes who are trying to rally support for the nickname.

But mention those future UND seniors in bball, vball, softball, baseball, etc. who will be denied their only legitimate shot at going to the DI NCAA tournaments because they won't be able to win an auto-bid conference title and what do you hear out of them?

Not peep.

[star2city]

Notice when you actually mention the players that could be affected by name, no one wants to touch that with a 10 foot pole. But it is true people don't really care about those student athletes. Which is horrible. I for one feel terrible for our athletes in limbo.

I'll touch that issue. Who promised those athletes that we would be in an auto-bid conference? Maybe some coaches - not UND. Those athletes were promised an opportunity to compete at the DI level. That has been granted. Only a small fraction of DI athletes ever see NCAA action. If by this summer it is apparent that they won't have an opportunity, guess what, they can transfer to fulfill their dream. There's still time. In the meantime, they get a free education.

NDSU promised their fab five they could compete for a Big Sky championship - the MidCon (Summit) was furthest from their mind. In life, situations rarely ever get fulfilled the way we anticipate or hope.

[Hansel]

NDSU promised their fab five they could compete for a Big Sky championship .....

[star2city]

Yes, really. Miles promised them they'd be in an autobid conference, and at the time, Chapman etc., were certain that NDSU would be in the Big Sky. You can re-write history all you want.

[MplsBison]

I'll touch that issue. Who promised those athletes that we would be in an auto-bid conference? Maybe some coaches - not UND. Those athletes were promised an opportunity to compete at the DI level. That has been granted. Only a small fraction of DI athletes ever see NCAA action. If by this summer it is apparent that they won't have an opportunity, guess what, they can transfer to fulfill their dream. There's still time. In the meantime, they get a free education.

NDSU promised their fab five they could compete for a Big Sky championship - the MidCon (Summit) was furthest from their mind. In life, situations rarely ever get fulfilled the way we anticipate or hope.

Of course they were promised a chance to win an auto-bid conference tournament and a trip to the big dance. That's what all DI coaches promise every single athlete they recruit.

You're a bald faced liar if you try to pretend that UND did not promise those bball players the exact same thing. They were promised, just like every other DI bball recruit was.

The fact that you're trying to undermine the main reason for the SBoHE telling UND to retire the nickname early at the expense of what was promised to those players, is the most pathetic, childish, self-serving thing I've read yet, on this entire board.

Thankfully, you don't get to make the decision and have zero influence on those who do.

Logic will rule the day. Emotions be damned.

[The Sicatoka]

Logic will rule the day. Emotions be damned.

Well, here's the most logical, least emotional, post I've seen in quite a while. It's the most succinct, objective analysis I've seen on the current situation.