Conference Opportunities

[star2city]

Why do you doubt UND or USD will eventually be in the MVFC? Makes no sense to only have half of the Dakota flagships.

NDSU barely obtained membership in the MVFC, while SDSU had little opposition. Same issues apply to UND vs USD. Many of the MVFC schools don't necessarily want the strongest programs or potential than they offer: they want a win. This isn't like getting in an BCS conference. Bascially, Vermillion is an easy bus ride to almost every school and USD's budget and facilities aren't a threat to other schools.

This MVFC situation is very different from the Summit. When the Summit added USD, that move basically prevented UND from having any option to go to the Big Sky (no travel partner available). USD much preferred the Summit anyway to the BSC (travel in the BSC would have killed USD's already tight budget). By taking USD first, the Summit, which wanted both USD and UND and needed more schools anyway, could bascially call the shots in how it would accept UND. Right now, the MVFC has no need from more schools unless Mo St or Ill St go FBS. The MVFC also wants to preserve a slot in case Wichita State ever restarts football.

Not saying UND to the MVFC won't ever happen, but the MVFC isn't even knocking on UND's door right now. The Summit is.

[tjbison]

NDSU barely obtained membership in the MVFC, while SDSU had little opposition. Same issues apply to UND vs USD. Many of the MVFC schools don't necessarily want the strongest programs or potential than they offer: they want a win. This isn't like getting in an BCS conference. Bascially, Vermillion is an easy bus ride to almost every school and USD's budget and facilities aren't a threat to other schools.

This MVFC situation is very different from the Summit. When the Summit added USD, that move basically prevented UND from having any option to go to the Big Sky (no travel partner available). USD much preferred the Summit anyway to the BSC (travel in the BSC would have killed USD's already tight budget). By taking USD first, the Summit, which wanted both USD and UND and needed more schools anyway, could bascially call the shots in how it would accept UND. Right now, the MVFC has no need from more schools unless Mo St or Ill St go FBS. The MVFC also wants to preserve a slot in case Wichita State ever restarts football.

Not saying UND to the MVFC won't ever happen, but the MVFC isn't even knocking on UND's door right now. The Summit is.

take it for what its worth, but the only reason SDSU and NDSU are in the MVFC is timing!! they came into the DI world perfectly as Western Kentucky entered the FBS world while SDSU was in fact more appealing for distance purpose the MVFC seen an opportunity to take the league to 9 with NDSU and also add 2 strong teams with a tradition of playing each other, as for USD and UND in the MVFC it won't happen with the current schools and the chances of 2 teams leaving anytime in the next 10 years is doubtful, some think Indiana St. will dump its program but they as of this year have installed Field Turf, upgraded facilities and coaches, picked up some nice recruits, ramped their Marketing etc... they will come around.

[MplsBison]

NDSU barely obtained membership in the MVFC, while SDSU had little opposition. Same issues apply to UND vs USD. Many of the MVFC schools don't necessarily want the strongest programs or potential than they offer: they want a win. This isn't like getting in an BCS conference. Bascially, Vermillion is an easy bus ride to almost every school and USD's budget and facilities aren't a threat to other schools.

This MVFC situation is very different from the Summit. When the Summit added USD, that move basically prevented UND from having any option to go to the Big Sky (no travel partner available). USD much preferred the Summit anyway to the BSC (travel in the BSC would have killed USD's already tight budget). By taking USD first, the Summit, which wanted both USD and UND and needed more schools anyway, could bascially call the shots in how it would accept UND. Right now, the MVFC has no need from more schools unless Mo St or Ill St go FBS. The MVFC also wants to preserve a slot in case Wichita State ever restarts football.

Not saying UND to the MVFC won't ever happen, but the MVFC isn't even knocking on UND's door right now. The Summit is.

The way I see it, the MVFC is at 9...and that leaves 3 slots open.

CAA has clearly shown the way with a 12 team conference full of very powerful programs.

That's the best way to do it, without a doubt.

That refutes everything else you said, which I also don't agree with you speculation on those points.

[star2city]

The way I see it, the MVFC is at 9...and that leaves 3 slots open.

CAA has clearly shown the way with a 12 team conference full of very powerful programs.

That's the best way to do it, without a doubt.

And there's also a lot of talk about the CAA football splitting again: which means a 12 team FCS conference isn't stable, which refutes your arguments.

[MplsBison]

And there's also a lot of talk about the CAA football splitting again: which means a 12 team FCS conference isn't stable, which refutes your arguments.

Who's talking, message boards? Certainly not presidents.

[Shawn-O]

And there's also a lot of talk about the CAA football splitting again: which means a 12 team FCS conference isn't stable, which refutes your arguments.

With Georgia State and ODU coming online, 14 teams is just way too many.

[bincitysioux]

The way I see it, the MVFC is at 9...and that leaves 3 slots open.

CAA has clearly shown the way with a 12 team conference full of very powerful programs.

That's the best way to do it, without a doubt.

That refutes everything else you said, which I also don't agree with you speculation on those points.

Your argument doesn't hold water.

There are 14 FCS football conferences. Only 1 has 12 teams or more, the CAA. The reason the CAA has so many teams is not because it works so well for football, it is because it works so well for basketball and because the geography of the league's divisions is tightly knit. Located along the eastern seaboard, their is a plethora of potential attractive and economical home DI OOC games available for every member of the CAA. Not so much the case for even MVFC teams situated west of the Missouri River. 9 or 10 appears to be the ideal number of football teams within a conference. Allows for just the right amount of non-conference games.

If a MVFC team threatens to leave, I suppose you could then consider USD a candidate for membership. Until 1 or more current members (probably would have to be Youngstown leaving) actually leave, don't bet on North Dakota even getting a sniff from the MVFC.

The way I see it, unless North Dakota gets an invite from the Big Sky (less than 1% chance of that happening), expect to see North Dakota and USD in the Great West for football for many many years.

[FargoBison]

The MVFC is very happy with its nine team membership, it is the ideal number for FCS football, since it allows for games against all league members(4 home and 4 away) and of course a championship game doesn't make any sense.

That said, I would love to see UND added to the MVFC, hopefully it will happen someday.

[Hammersmith]

The CAA is getting ready to split. If they get up to 14 and hold it for two years, they can split and both resulting conferences will be eligible for autobids. They'll time the split so it happens the year the FCS playoffs expand to 24 so they can get one of the new autobids(probably 2014).

[MplsBison]

With Georgia State and ODU coming online, 14 teams is just way too many.

Big East

[MplsBison]

The CAA is getting ready to split. If they get up to 14 and hold it for two years, they can split and both resulting conferences will be eligible for autobids. They'll time the split so it happens the year the FCS playoffs expand to 24 so they can get one of the new autobids(probably 2014).

Reasonable guess, but I don't see it happening. Things never work out so smoothly. Regional politics and schools trying to maximize benefits for themselves inevitably muck something up.

[MplsBison]

The MVFC is very happy with its nine team membership, it is the ideal number for FCS football, since it allows for games against all league members(4 home and 4 away) and of course a championship game doesn't make any sense.

That said, I would love to see UND added to the MVFC, hopefully it will happen someday.

You're right! Getting 2 teams into the playoffs is much more ideal than 5!!!!

[MplsBison]

BTW I'm somewhat shocked at the negativity from even UND posters towards the MVFC.

It's like you're proactively trying to pretend you don't want to get into the MVFC to prevent yourselves from being disappointed if the MVFC doesn't want you?

Erase even the 1% chance of the Big Sky. It will never ever ever ever ever happen.

Summit if where you are headed shortly, leaving you with the GW or MVFC for football. Seems like a no brainer there.

[bincitysioux]

BTW I'm somewhat shocked at the negativity from even UND posters towards the MVFC.

It's like you're proactively trying to pretend you don't want to get into the MVFC to prevent yourselves from being disappointed if the MVFC doesn't want you?

Nobody is being negative toward the MVFC. I'm sure every one of us would love to be a member of it. However, most of us know that we won't be invited unless they lose at least two members.

[MplsBison]

Nobody is being negative toward the MVFC. I'm sure every one of us would love to be a member of it. However, most of us know that we won't be invited unless they lose at least two members.

But that's nonsense, as I outlined.

[bincitysioux]

But that's nonsense, as I outlined.

If the lineup of the MVFC stays as it currently is, the chances of North Dakota being invited is about the same as receiving an invite to the Big Sky.

[MplsBison]

If the lineup of the MVFC stays as it currently is, the chances of North Dakota being invited is about the same as receiving an invite to the Big Sky.

Disagree fully.

- CAA is obviously a superior configuration as they get 5 teams in the playoffs to MVFC's 2

- UND is within MVFC's geographic footprint (not true for Big Sky)

- it makes no sense to have half of the Dakota flagships and not pick other the other half

[bincitysioux]

Disagree fully.

Of course you do

- CAA is obviously a superior configuration as they get 5 teams in the playoffs to MVFC's 2

Rather, CAA is obviously a a superior conference as they get 5 teams in the playoffs to the MVFC's 2

- UND is within MVFC's geographic footprint (not true for Big Sky)

Again, I'm not saying we are more likely to join the Big Sky, just that we are not likely to be invited to either league since both currently have the optimum number of members. Geography is a moot point because of this.

- it makes no sense to have half of the Dakota flagships and not pick other the other half

Iowa and Iowa St. play in separate conferences. Florida and Florida State play in separate conferences. Colorado and Colorado St. play in separate conferences. I can go on and on and on if you need........

When the MVFC loses 2 schools, it may be more realistic. It's not now.

[GeauxSioux]

Similar to a conversation with MplsBison...

[Matt]

Disagree fully.

- CAA is obviously a superior configuration as they get 5 teams in the playoffs to MVFC's 2

- UND is within MVFC's geographic footprint (not true for Big Sky)

- it makes no sense to have half of the Dakota flagships and not pick other the other half

We know it makes no sense to you, but why exactly would it make no sense to the MVFC commish or the school presidents? There may eventually be good reason to take the UxDs, but simply because the xDSUs are in isn't the deal maker. Simply because there are other "flagship" universities in those states doesn't equate to MVFC expansion.

[MplsBison]

Of course you do

Rather, CAA is obviously a a superior conference as they get 5 teams in the playoffs to the MVFC's 2

Again, I'm not saying we are more likely to join the Big Sky, just that we are not likely to be invited to either league since both currently have the optimum number of members. Geography is a moot point because of this.

Iowa and Iowa St. play in separate conferences. Florida and Florida State play in separate conferences. Colorado and Colorado St. play in separate conferences. I can go on and on and on if you need........

When the MVFC loses 2 schools, it may be more realistic. It's not now.

Ok I admit the half of the flagships part is wrong.

Still, the CAA is superior because it has 12 members, not because it has stronger members.

[bincitysioux]

Still, the CAA is superior because it has 12 members, not because it has stronger members.

That's a horrible argument. Using your logic, if the SWAC added Savanna St. and Valparaiso it would make it a better conference than the MVFC?

[MplsBison]

That's a horrible argument. Using your logic, if the SWAC added Savanna St. and Valparaiso it would make it a better conference than the MVFC?

Ok so clearly the size and strength of the members is important.

Bottom line: CAA with 12 members (arguably 8-9 strong programs) got 5 in the playoffs...MVFC with 9 members (arguably 6-7 strong programs) got 2 in the playoffs.

Pretty clear case for going to 12 and having 8-9 strong programs.

[Herd]

If the Valley is wise, they will protect themselves by bringing in a couple of their football members for all sports, thereby protecting the football conference. I believe there is a much better chance of that happening than the Valley adding more football only members from other conferences. The Valley does not want more Summit teams as football only members. That would be risky and a bad move by the Valley. NDSU should focus on getting their BB arena in place and ready, that should be a priority.

[Sec322]

I saw a post on the NDSU board about Northern Arizona may drop football.

If Northern Arizona does drop football, who would the Big Sky invite into their conference?

For whatever reason Southern Utah doesn't seem like an option.

The Big Sky is better than the Summitt League in basketball. So if Northern Arizona does drop football and we get invited, we should jump at the chance.