Hammersmith Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Don't know if it's been posted here or not, but Lisa Persuitti(Sioux Crew director & marketing assistant) has been promoted to the position of marketing director. "Persuitti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 My own personal rooting interest aside... UND is the flagship public university, NDSU is the agricultural college. It doesn't matter if UND is the factual flagship by any criteria. Perception makes reality. And the perception in ND right now is that NDSU moved past UND. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 It doesn't matter if UND is the factual flagship by any criteria. Perception makes reality. And the perception in ND right now is that NDSU moved past UND. That perception is dead wrong. Maybe now from an athletic standpoint, NDSU has moved past UND but take each university as a whole and UND is still perceived as the premier U in the state. Now maybe if you are playing PS2 and drinking Keystone at 2 AM in your apartment in the Cities with your SU buddies, your perception of SU is valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herd Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 With all the hard work and dedication culminating in this week's press conference and celebration of und's all-new, all-sport "Conference", und makes a bid for #1 in ND. Does that put und in the lead, or do we have to wait 10 years for the conference to be recognized by the ncaa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Maybe now from an athletic standpoint, NDSU has moved past UND That's what I meant. That's the state's perception right now because of NDSU's football program the last two years including beating Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammersmith Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 That perception is dead wrong. Maybe now from an athletic standpoint, NDSU has moved past UND but take each university as a whole and UND is still perceived as the premier U in the state. Now maybe if you are playing PS2 and drinking Keystone at 2 AM in your apartment in the Cities with your SU buddies, your perception of SU is valid. God, I hate to get into this pissing match, but... Did someone forget to tell local and national high school seniors that UND is clearly the premier university in North Dakota, because it doesn't seem like they got the memo. In North Dakota, more students who take the ACT list NDSU as their first choice than UND(1030/961). Also, more ND students select NDSU as one of their six total choices(2955/2835). While the ND numbers are fairly close, the numbers from Minnesota and South Dakota show a more pronounced difference(MN 1st: 777/573; MN tot: 2796/2045; SD 1st: 72/54; SD tot: 282/179). UND does win Montana(MT tot: <79/94). The breakdown of ACT scores between ND, SD & MN is identical, so neither school is attracting a better class of student than the other. Looking at applications, NDSU is getting significantly more(4382/3783). NDSU also has a higher number of students that are accepted and a higher number who actually enroll. On the flip side, UND accepts a smaller percentage of applicants(70%/85%), and more students who are accepted to UND actually enroll(70%/58%). You might think those last two sets of figures would indicate that UND's incoming class would be of higher quality than NDSU's, but the opposite is true. NDSU has small advantages in students who rank in the top tenth, quarter and half of their graduating classes, and also students who have high school GPAs above 3.75, 3.50, 3.25, & 3.00. ACT scores of incoming freshmen are a dead heat, with UND students having a very small advantage in overall average, but a higher percentage of NDSU students score above 24 and 30. Other than the sheer numbers, which are in NDSU's favor, the student bodies at the two schools are nearly identical; any differences are statistically insignificant. Since the state has never legally named a flagship university, I don't see how you can choose one over the other; our schools are just too similar in the current period of time. If it were 1950, I'd have no problem with only UND being considered a flagship, but times have changed. For the foreseeable future, North Dakota has two flagship universities. In 25 years, we can revisit the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 ...Looking at applications, NDSU is getting significantly more(4382/3783). NDSU also has a higher number of students that are accepted and a higher number who actually enroll. On the flip side, UND accepts a smaller percentage of applicants(70%/85%), and more students who are accepted to UND actually enroll(70%/58%). You might think those last two sets of figures would indicate that UND's incoming class would be of higher quality than NDSU's, but the opposite is true. NDSU has small advantages in students who rank in the top tenth, quarter and half of their graduating classes, and also students who have high school GPAs above 3.75, 3.50, 3.25, & 3.00. ACT scores of incoming freshmen are a dead heat, with UND students having a very small advantage in overall average, but a higher percentage of NDSU students score above 24 and 30... Oh Lord. Is it football season yet? LaCrosse? Anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Nice! When someone presents an argument, try to deflect into an irrelevant topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Other than the sheer numbers, which are in NDSU's favor, the student bodies at the two schools are nearly identical; any differences are statistically insignificant. Since the state has never legally named a flagship university, I don't see how you can choose one over the other; our schools are just too similar in the current period of time. If it were 1950, I'd have no problem with only UND being considered a flagship, but times have changed. For the foreseeable future, North Dakota has two flagship universities. In 25 years, we can revisit the question. The argument by MplsBison was about perception and as far as I can tell UND still has the perception of being the flagship U of ND both in this state and nationwide. Not saying that is right or wrong. And I know numbers are numbers and they are almost identical as you cited. Athletically, SU is percevieved to be ahead of UND, but academically, the perception is still UND is ahead of SU. Again not saying that is right or wrong, but when universities are viewed for academics first, perception is still UND getting the nod overall. And again I'll go back to the perception of the med and law schools plus aviation trumping anything SU has in academics. Right or wrong? But that is the perception by most non-UND/SU grads I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 The argument by MplsBison was about perception and as far as I can tell UND still has the perception of being the flagship U of ND both in this state and nationwide. Not saying that is right or wrong. And I know numbers are numbers and they are almost identical as you cited. Athletically, SU is percevieved to be ahead of UND, but academically, the perception is still UND is ahead of SU. Again not saying that is right or wrong, but when universities are viewed for academics first, perception is still UND getting the nod overall. And again I'll go back to the perception of the med and law school plus aviation trumping anything SU has in academics. Right or wrong? But that is the perception by most non-UND/SU grads I know. That perception is being dispelled by NDSU (and not it a negative way but by excelling in it's own programs). UND has be living off the fact they have the med school thus that equals excellence. That's not woring anymore, you'll see NDSU pass UND this fall in enrollment as more & more high school kids are picking NDSU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 That perception is being dispelled by NDSU (and not it a negative way but by excelling in it's own programs). UND has be living off the fact they have the med school thus that equals excellence. That's not woring anymore, you'll see NDSU pass UND this fall in enrollment as more & more high school kids are picking NDSU. Excelling in what programs? If you are a rural kid from ND or MN and you want to have a career in Ag, what are your options? Other than engineering--maybe? and pharmacy, what "white" collar degrees does SU trump UND in? If enrollment is the criteria for perception than IF and WHEN SU has a higher enrollment than UND, you point would be valid. But again, perception of academics, by most, is not based on enrollment numbers but about top shelf degrees that one can get. And UND has more of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Excelling in what programs? If you are a rural kid from ND or MN and you want to have a career in Ag, what are your options? Other than engineering--maybe? and pharmacy, what "white" collar degrees does SU trump UND in? If enrollment is the criteria for perception than IF and WHEN SU has a higher enrollment than UND, you point would be valid. But again, perception of academics, by most, is not based on enrollment numbers but about top shelf degrees that one can get. And UND has more of those. Top shelf degrees? I'm not going to get in a pi$$ing match on programs - but as a example our Architectural school was just rated as the 18th best in the nation. Our engineering program is 5 times larger than yours, nanotechnology and polymers & coating are rated as some of the best programs in the nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Top shelf degrees? I'm not going to get in a pi$$ing match on programs - but as a example our Architectural school was just rated as the 18th best in the nation. Our engineering program is 5 times larger than yours, nanotechnology and polymers & coating are rated as some of the best programs in the nation. Now you are making some valid points, but again to the general public in ND--like farmer Ted in Binford, ND--perception is not of polymers and coatings when it comes to academics but to law degrees and MD degrees. Not arguing with anything you mentioned above but when another Bison troll makes an agrument of perception, be realistic with the public in this state. Go to the local cafe in Bowman, ND and ask the locals about nanotechnology and you'll get this-- . Perception...different than reality. Again not right or wrong, but it is what it is. The law and med schools at UND have a higher academic perception than the architecture/engineering schools at SU. That is just the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Now you are making some valid points, but again to the general public in ND--like farmer Ted in Binford, ND--perception is not of polymers and coatings when it comes to academics but to law degrees and MD degrees. Not arguing with anything you mentioned above but when another Bison troll makes an agrument of perception, be realistic with the public in this state. Go to the local cafe in Bowman, ND and ask the locals about nanotechnology and you'll get this-- . Perception...different than reality. Again not right or wrong, but it is what it is. The law and med schools at UND have a higher academic perception than the architecture/engineering schools at SU. That is just the bottom line. That maybe true but there's more students looking into those programs than med/law schools. One of the reasons I feel that NDSU will over take UND in students is SU getting out the word on these programs which attract more students overall. Now having the most students doesn't mean anything but "having the most students" but UND has been making hay on it since day one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Now you are making some valid points, but again to the general public in ND--like farmer Ted in Binford, ND--perception is not of polymers and coatings when it comes to academics but to law degrees and MD degrees. I actually kid of doubt that farmer Ted cares much about MDs or JDs. Farmer Ted likely cares more about which university supports and helps farmers in the state. That was an odd example for you to pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 I actually kid of doubt that farmer Ted cares much about MDs or JDs. Farmer Ted likely cares more about which university supports and helps farmers in the state. That was an odd example for you to pick. Maybe so but come on, I grew up in rural ND and not in a farming family and I even have an AG Econ "minor" without even attending SU. Any kid that grows up in rural ND has an AG Econ "minor". Get paid not to plant this, get paid extra if I plant this... You Bison fellas are missing my point, which doesn't suprise me. From a perception standpoint, which is your argument, farmer Ted might care more about SU, but even he is smart enough to value an education in law or medicine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksioux Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 As a staunch UND fan, I'm not afraid to admit that whether or not NDSU has caught up to UND in perception, at a minimum, NDSU is certainly gaining on UND. NDSU has done an extraordinary job marketing their institution and using athletics as an important part of that marketing. UND's marketing effort over the past several years has been woefully deficient. While it's great that UND has a med school, law school, and aviation program, UND can not rest on those things. The overall marketing needs to improve and recognizing NDSU's success is a good thing, not a bad thing. It should be a healthy motivation. The former President never understood how important athletics can be in the overall marketing of the institution. Fortunately, I think the new President gets it and I look forward to improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison Dan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 As a staunch UND fan, I'm not afraid to admit that whether or not NDSU has caught up to UND in perception, at a minimum, NDSU is certainly gaining on UND. NDSU has done an extraordinary job marketing their institution and using athletics as an important part of that marketing. UND's marketing effort over the past several years has been woefully deficient. While it's great that UND has a med school, law school, and aviation program, UND can not rest on those things. The overall marketing needs to improve and recognizing NDSU's success is a good thing, not a bad thing. It should be a healthy motivation. The former President never understood how important athletics can be in the overall marketing of the institution. Fortunately, I think the new President gets it and I look forward to improvement. I agree - it's not a zero sum game. Both universities should try to be all they can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBisonator Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Now you are making some valid points, but again to the general public in ND--like farmer Ted in Binford, ND--perception is not of polymers and coatings when it comes to academics but to law degrees and MD degrees. Not arguing with anything you mentioned above but when another Bison troll makes an agrument of perception, be realistic with the public in this state. Go to the local cafe in Bowman, ND and ask the locals about nanotechnology and you'll get this-- . Perception...different than reality. Again not right or wrong, but it is what it is. The law and med schools at UND have a higher academic perception than the architecture/engineering schools at SU. That is just the bottom line. So UND leads the state in producing scheisters and ambulance chasers. Fine. NDSU can continue to pop out the architects and software engineers. That's OK with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxbow6 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 So UND leads the state in producing scheisters and ambulance chasers. Fine. NDSU can continue to pop out the architects and software engineers. That's OK with me. Ah yes, this state and country would so much better off without physicans. If only our healthcare system was like that of...(you can fill in the blank you troll). And building farm sheds and making games for PS2 is so noble! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotadan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Wow, good thread we have going here. Speaking of marketing, specifically in football. Has anyone heard if they have gotten any more done yet to make the Alerus feel more like home to Fighting Sioux football? More than anything, I would love to see them get large banners that run the length of the front of the grandstands. This would go the farthest as far as making the place look like UND's. And if UND paid to have the banners created, it would give them the opportunity to sell sponsorship on it and make some advertising money. One big hurdle about playing football at the Alerus is that it limits the options that UND has as far as making money on advertising. This is one small way that UND could try make more ad money with football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooToo Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Wow, good thread we have going here. Speaking of marketing, specifically in football. Has anyone heard if they have gotten any more done yet to make the Alerus feel more like home to Fighting Sioux football? More than anything, I would love to see them get large banners that run the length of the front of the grandstands. This would go the farthest as far as making the place look like UND's. And if UND paid to have the banners created, it would give them the opportunity to sell sponsorship on it and make some advertising money. One big hurdle about playing football at the Alerus is that it limits the options that UND has as far as making money on advertising. This is one small way that UND could try make more ad money with football. Thank you for steering this trainwreck back onto the main line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FargoBison Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 NDSU and UND are both state flagships and will be for the foreseeable future, end of story. I don't why it is so difficult for some people to admit we have two great schools in this state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxhockeyfan11 Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 maybe the enrollment numbers have something to do with fargo have twice as many high school kids as grand forks making it all the more likely that ndsu would have more incoming students if the same proportion of seniors went to each school in their hometown. being that not many kids leave north dakota for school ndsu should have more students. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MplsBison Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 NDSU and UND are both state flagships and will be for the foreseeable future, end of story. I don't why it is so difficult for some people to admit we have two great schools in this state. It's probably tough for UND to swollow because they were supposed to be the main flagship in the style of UWyoming. But basically because they decided to put the Ag College in Fargo, it grew too fast and they had to give it actual university status. If they had put the Ag College in say, Valley City, UND would be the only major research college in the state I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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