NDSU vs. UND, 2009: Metrodome

[dallassiouxfan]

Nope.

My initial argument is my rationale for stopping this game.

Who benefits from this location financially? At the gates, NDSU and UND would most undoubtedly split the take. Merchandise sales would probably dealt with according to school and third party arrangements.

What about concessions?

The thing about the boost to the local economy (the money spent in town by visitors including restaurants, hotels, etc.) is that it helps Farg... it helps Gra.... Oh wait.

IT HELPS NEITHER FARGO OR GRAND FORKS FINANCIALLY AND THOSE TWO CITIES ARE MAJOR FUNDERS FOR THE G-DARN UNIVERSITIES!!!!

So, yeah.... The game is in Grand Forks, look for GF to get a boost economically that weekend. In Fargo? Ditto for Fargo. In Minneapolis? Look for ZERO GOOSE EGG NADA economic boost for Fargo and GF.

SO, yeah, that's my argument. Big rivalries are more than what sells at the gates. They help communities. This helps our Minnesota communities and the NDSU UND Minnesota campuses....oh wait.

60K is a very nice number for Minneapolis businesses. I'm sure they're very happy to hear this.

How close does NDSU come to selling out the Dome when they play just a regular run of the mill type AA football team? Fairly close I assume. I would also like to think UND could sell out the Alerus with or without the Bison coming to town. IMO, yes you would see an up-tick in revenue for the city but not enough to make any sort of difference. Unfortunately this is just an idea and probably will never happen. It's narrow minded thinking like this that has the Sioux 5-10 yrs behind in the first place.

[star2city]

How close does NDSU come to selling out the Dome when they play just a regular run of the mill type AA football team? Fairly close I assume. I would also like to think UND could sell out the Alerus with or without the Bison coming to town. IMO, yes you would see an up-tick in revenue for the city but not enough to make any sort of difference. Unfortunately this is just an idea and probably will never happen. It's narrow minded thinking like this that has the Sioux 5-10 yrs behind in the first place.

The UND administration actually considered playing a second game with South Dakota at the Metrodome (with UND as the home team), so I don't think this idea is that far-fetched from UND's perspective. UND wants events in the Twin Cities for which tickets are easily available for UND alumni there (big pool of resources that's untapped relative to Grand Forks area - witness $2 mill donation this past week). But from NDSU's view, they'd never do it: too much to lose in their minds.

Technically, if (when ) NDSU doesn't make the playoffs this year, an NDSU-UND game could be played on Nov 29th.

[Cratter]

The UND administration actually considered playing a second game with South Dakota at the Metrodome (with UND as the home team), so I don't think this idea is that far-fetched from UND's perspective. UND wants events in the Twin Cities for which tickets are easily available for UND alumni there (big pool of resources that's untapped relative to Grand Forks area - witness $2 mill donation this past week). But from NDSU's view, they'd never do it: too much to lose in their minds.

Technically, if (when ) NDSU doesn't make the playoffs this year, an NDSU-UND game could be played on Nov 29th.

Let's not forget that UND played a basketball game against Bemidji St at the Target Center in Minneapolis last year.

[Higgins]

I think it's a great idea. There are ton of UND people who live in out state MN plus Iowa and WI.

[SiouxMD]

Let's not forget that UND played a basketball game against Bemidji St at the Target Center in Minneapolis last year.

...in front of 453 fans.

[redwing77]

But basketball is more popular than hockey in this region according to all those anti-hockey people who support NDSU.

UND has a basketball team?

[MplsBison]

My thoughts exactly! Same goes for NDSU.

UND is known for hockey and football while NDSU is known for football only.

Or more accurately:

the top attendance getter at NDSU is football.

The top attendance getter at UND is hockey.

[gjw007]

While overall I think it is a bad idea, there are some merits to the thought process in attracting alumni from the Twin Cities. If it happened, I wonder if it would be more successful as part of a full day of football where you have a heated DIII Minnesota rivalry, a heated DII Minnesota rivalry, and the UND-NDSU game. Of course, if it was tied into a UND-Minnesota hockey game it might add more value. This might be more attractive from a promoter's perspective than the teams but it could certainly provide a more festive atmosphere for the fans. Maybe as a one-time shot it has merits as a fund raiser but as an annual event, I wonder what it ultimately brings to either UND or NDSU once the novelty wears off. Fans might drive from Grand Forks or Fargo for the first game or two but after that, who knows?

[4mcrue]

Dave K, you really are a "special" person.

Anyways, regardless what anybody says, or tries to come up with, we have the upper hand here, there will be 2 games played in Fargo before we travel up north. Dave my friend, get your head out of your ass.

[redwing77]

While overall I think it is a bad idea, there are some merits to the thought process in attracting alumni from the Twin Cities. If it happened, I wonder if it would be more successful as part of a full day of football where you have a heated DIII Minnesota rivalry, a heated DII Minnesota rivalry, and the UND-NDSU game. Of course, if it was tied into a UND-Minnesota hockey game it might add more value. This might be more attractive from a promoter's perspective than the teams but it could certainly provide a more festive atmosphere for the fans. Maybe as a one-time shot it has merits as a fund raiser but as an annual event, I wonder what it ultimately brings to either UND or NDSU once the novelty wears off. Fans might drive from Grand Forks or Fargo for the first game or two but after that, who knows?

Sure, the upside is getting lazy Minneapolis alumni to come to a game.

Really... how come the hard working people of ND can travel but Twin Cities residents can't?

What made the Twin Cities alumni so underserved and so deserving of this?

On this thread, we've heard "Wah wah, it's only 4 hours drive!" Well... wah wah, it's only 4 hours drive from the Twin Cities to Grand Forks!

It's still a stupid idea. It's still retarded. It's still not truly in the best interests of the people who fund the schools (the State of North Dakota). However, if they are this retarded and decide to do it anyways, fine. I guess I can't make the game.

[jpiehl]

Sure, the upside is getting lazy Minneapolis alumni to come to a game.

Really... how come the hard working people of ND can travel but Twin Cities residents can't?

What made the Twin Cities alumni so underserved and so deserving of this?

On this thread, we've heard "Wah wah, it's only 4 hours drive!" Well... wah wah, it's only 4 hours drive from the Twin Cities to Grand Forks!

It's still a stupid idea. It's still retarded. It's still not truly in the best interests of the people who fund the schools (the State of North Dakota). However, if they are this retarded and decide to do it anyways, fine. I guess I can't make the game.

So why can't you make the game? Is it too far of a drive? Just curious.

I think the real benefit of a game there is in the fact that pretty much anyone that wants tickets will be able to get them. The Metrodome just happens to be the closest large capacity stadium. If I could get tickets, I would drive back up to Grand Forks to see a UND-NDSU game, but the first game there will be sold out faster than UND-MN hockey tickets. Every year after I graduated that the game still occurred I was unable to get tickets. I wish I had been able to get to more games in the 10+ years since I graduated, but I have a hard time justifying the $1500 weekend for the whole family to go up to see Tech or Bemidji in hockey or UMC or equivalent for football. I think a more accurate measure would be to compare the games the Sioux hockey team plays in the WCHA Final 5 at Xcel, which are always well attended by Sioux fans. Keep in mind in your arguement that it is not in the best interests of the people who fund the schools that alumni contributions are a significant figure, granted the alumni residing in the Twin Cities area won't add up to the State's contribution to the University, but it may come close to the state's contributions in athletics alone. I don't know what those numbers are exactly so I could be way off....

[redwing77]

So why can't you make the game? Is it too far of a drive? Just curious.

I think the real benefit of a game there is in the fact that pretty much anyone that wants tickets will be able to get them. The Metrodome just happens to be the closest large capacity stadium. If I could get tickets, I would drive back up to Grand Forks to see a UND-NDSU game, but the first game there will be sold out faster than UND-MN hockey tickets. Every year after I graduated that the game still occurred I was unable to get tickets. I wish I had been able to get to more games in the 10+ years since I graduated, but I have a hard time justifying the $1500 weekend for the whole family to go up to see Tech or Bemidji in hockey or UMC or equivalent for football. I think a more accurate measure would be to compare the games the Sioux hockey team plays in the WCHA Final 5 at Xcel, which are always well attended by Sioux fans. Keep in mind in your arguement that it is not in the best interests of the people who fund the schools that alumni contributions are a significant figure, granted the alumni residing in the Twin Cities area won't add up to the State's contribution to the University, but it may come close to the state's contributions in athletics alone. I don't know what those numbers are exactly so I could be way off....

Well, this will sound silly, but I'll say it anyways:

I don't feel like supporting Minneapolis' economy is in my best interests. I have no trouble driving 3+ hours one way if it is worthwhile or just happens to have to be in that locale (for example, UND has to play UMN in Minneapolis every now and then... it is where UMN's home is. That's a legit reason). However, if the teams involved happen to be from my alma mater (UND) against the team where I am from originally and currently reside (NDSU), then I should only have to drive 1 hour at most. And I'd be supporting (even if it is only "minimal" as posters here claim) the ND economy, if not the local economy.

Yeah, there are less tickets at the Dome or the Alerus than at the Metroslum, but that's how it goes. I just don't feel like patronizing the Metrodome or the Metro Twin Cities area if at least ONE of the teams isn't from Minnesota.

[MplsBison]

Then don't show up!

With the demand for tickets that going to happen for the next NDSU UND game, we need a stadium with at least 40k seats.

I don't see the Fargodome or Alerus increasing capcity to that.

[jpiehl]

Well, this will sound silly, but I'll say it anyways:

I don't feel like supporting Minneapolis' economy is in my best interests. I have no trouble driving 3+ hours one way if it is worthwhile or just happens to have to be in that locale (for example, UND has to play UMN in Minneapolis every now and then... it is where UMN's home is. That's a legit reason). However, if the teams involved happen to be from my alma mater (UND) against the team where I am from originally and currently reside (NDSU), then I should only have to drive 1 hour at most. And I'd be supporting (even if it is only "minimal" as posters here claim) the ND economy, if not the local economy.

Yeah, there are less tickets at the Dome or the Alerus than at the Metroslum, but that's how it goes. I just don't feel like patronizing the Metrodome or the Metro Twin Cities area if at least ONE of the teams isn't from Minnesota.

That's fair enough, I can respect that opinion. I would prefer to support a North Dakota city over Minneapolis as well. I don't think it is as minimal an amount as some would say just based on my previous number of $1500 for me to take the family for a weekend. And I am just one person (with wife and kids, of course). Even when we go to the Xcel Center for a WCHA Final Five game it ends up over $400 without a hotel and only 1 meal out.

[Siouxtimestwo]

I thought NDSU was never, ever, under any circumstances going to play UND again? Isn't that what NDSU fans have been spewing for the past 5 years? Now all of a sudden you want to renew the rivalry in the biggest dump of a sporting venue ever created? If the Fargodome and the Alerus Center aren't good enough stadiums to support these games, then have them played at Dakota Field and Memorial Stadium. That would draw interest from alumni. I don't know how old some of you are, but the games played at these two stadiums were a fantastic experience and tickets weren't that difficult to come by and both teams were just as good as they are now. Tony Satter and Chris Simdorn would have rushed for 500 yards and Kleinsasser would have had 250 yards receiving against the 2007 Gophers. You guys are making it sound like tickets for this DumpDome game will be going for $10,000 apiece outside the stadium! 60,000 people! I think you're overlooking the fact that both schools fudge their attendance numbers. Even when a game is sold out, there are plenty of empty seats and that's with the games in North Dakota.

I'm an alumni who no longer lives in North Dakota. One of the nice things about coming back for UND sporting events is coming home to see my family and friends and revisit the campus. I'm sure the same is true for most other UND and NDSU fans alike. If you're unwilling to drive 3 hours to see the Bison play, then it's your loss. There are plenty of NDSU and UND alums living in Minnesota who are willing to drive to Fargo or Grand Forks to see their schools play. If you think the game should be played in Minneapolis just so you can get drunk and pop your collar on First Avenue after the game, then you really don't deserve to see it anyways.

BTW, concerning playing games outside the state in order to appease the alumni, UND has nearly as many alumni living in Denver as in Minneapolis. Why not play the game at Invesco in a real, outdoor footbal stadium? In fact, why stop there? My wife and I are UND alumni living in Michigan. If you're going to throw out gigantic attendance numbers, why not go for 108,000 and play the game in the Big House? Why should we have to suffer the indignity of coming home to North Dakota of all places to watch the University of North Dakota and North Dakota State University play a football game?

[Bison Dan]

I thought NDSU was never, ever, under any circumstances going to play UND again? Isn't that what NDSU fans have been spewing for the past 5 years? Now all of a sudden you want to renew the rivalry in the biggest dump of a sporting venue ever created? If the Fargodome and the Alerus Center aren't good enough stadiums to support these games, then have them played at Dakota Field and Memorial Stadium. That would draw interest from alumni. I don't know how old some of you are, but the games played at these two stadiums were a fantastic experience and tickets weren't that difficult to come by and both teams were just as good as they are now. Tony Satter and Chris Simdorn would have rushed for 500 yards and Kleinsasser would have had 250 yards receiving against the 2007 Gophers. You guys are making it sound like tickets for this DumpDome game will be going for $10,000 apiece outside the stadium! 60,000 people! I think you're overlooking the fact that both schools fudge their attendance numbers. Even when a game is sold out, there are plenty of empty seats and that's with the games in North Dakota.

I'm an alumni who no longer lives in North Dakota. One of the nice things about coming back for UND sporting events is coming home to see my family and friends and revisit the campus. I'm sure the same is true for most other UND and NDSU fans alike. If you're unwilling to drive 3 hours to see the Bison play, then it's your loss. There are plenty of NDSU and UND alums living in Minnesota who are willing to drive to Fargo or Grand Forks to see their schools play. If you think the game should be played in Minneapolis just so you can get drunk and pop your collar on First Avenue after the game, then you really don't deserve to see it anyways.

BTW, concerning playing games outside the state in order to appease the alumni, UND has nearly as many alumni living in Denver as in Minneapolis. Why not play the game at Invesco in a real, outdoor footbal stadium? In fact, why stop there? My wife and I are UND alumni living in Michigan. If you're going to throw out gigantic attendance numbers, why not go for 108,000 and play the game in the Big House? Why should we have to suffer the indignity of coming home to North Dakota of all places to watch the University of North Dakota and North Dakota State University play a football game?

One misguided fan only represents himself.

[MplsBison]

I thought NDSU was never, ever, under any circumstances going to play UND again? Isn't that what NDSU fans have been spewing for the past 5 years?

No, no, no.

Only a handful of really old, really bitter fans have been saying that.

The vast majority want the rivalry to be renewed as soon as it is practical.

If you think the game should be played in Minneapolis just so you can get drunk and pop your collar on First Avenue after the game, then you really don't deserve to see it anyways.

No, that's not it.

I think the game should be played there because the demand for tickets for the renewed DI rivalry will be far greater than the Fargodome or Alerus center could support and Mpls is close to both Fargo and GF and has large numbers of alumni living there from both schools.

[Siouxtimestwo]

No, no, no.

Only a handful of really old, really bitter fans have been saying that.

The vast majority want the rivalry to be renewed as soon as it is practical.

No, that's not it.

I think the game should be played there because the demand for tickets for the renewed DI rivalry will be far greater than the Fargodome or Alerus center could support and Mpls is close to both Fargo and GF and has large numbers of alumni living there from both schools.

What makes you think that the demand is going to be so much higher than it has been? Read the part of my post about the rivalry in the 80s and early 90s that you conveniently glossed over. When the rivalry was in its prime, both schools had smaller, in-state stadiums with better environments and tickets weren't that hard to get if you wanted them. What makes you think there will be overflow crowds lining up? When NDSU was winning national titles every other year my family as able to get tickets at Dakota Field. Do you really think that beating a 1-10 football team last year is all of a sudden going to cause 60,000 people to come out of the woodwork and flock from all corners of the country just to see a game in the HumptyDome?

If this game ever resumes, it will be on a continuing basis, not a one or two game series. The games would be right back where they belong in 2010. UND and NDSU don't have 60,000 combined alumni in the cities, plus not all the alumni living in the Twin Cities would be attending, even if they did. There would be plenty of Grand Forks and Fargo residents willing to attend, but certainly not enough to fill up the Metrodome. I don't know if you've been to the Metrodome in the last 10 years, but it's not exactly a great stadium. If they had a new arena in Minneapolis, then, maybe, just maybe I could see the appeal of playing the game there to some fans, although it would still be a bad idea.

I know NDSU fans are new in dealing with Gophers fans, but if this game was played there, not only would no one in Minnesota other than NDSU-UND alumni care, but we might as well change the names of our schools to the University of West Minnesota and West Minnesota State University. You've only dealt with them for 2 years, so trust me, while I appreciate your enthusiasm, it's a bad idea all around.

[MplsBison]

What makes you think that the demand is going to be so much higher than it has been?

Both teams are DI counters starting in 2009.

When it was last played the game was DII.

UND and NDSU don't have 60,000 combined alumni in the cities, plus not all the alumni living in the Twin Cities would be attending, even if they did. There would be plenty of Grand Forks and Fargo residents willing to attend, but certainly not enough to fill up the Metrodome.

The rational for 60k is this:

- 30k NDSU fans showed up for the last NDSU/U of MN game

- UND has more Mpls alumni than NDSU

- 30k + 30k = 60k

[WYOBISONMAN]

This has got to be the most insane thread I have seen in recent years on any board. The Bison won't play the Sioux in 2009, and if they did it sure as hell wouldn't be in the Metrodome....or any place that was outside of North Dakota. If it ever happens, the game will be in Fargo. But, don't hold your breath because with so many conference games and with expanded playoffs, NDSU will have few options for non-con games.....plus one of the non-con games will have to go for a major guarantee with a BCS school.

[bincitysioux]

This has got to be the most insane thread I have seen in recent years on any board...............

I agree.

[Gothmog]

Both teams are DI counters starting in 2009.

When it was last played the game was DII.

The rational for 60k is this:

- 30k NDSU fans showed up for the last NDSU/U of MN game

- UND has more Mpls alumni than NDSU

- 30k + 30k = 60k

Your estimates of the potential audience for this game are extremely optimistic.

I'm a Vikings season ticket holder, so I've been to over a hundred football games at the Metrodome. I was at the Bison-Gopher game last October, and I'd estimate that there were no more that 15k - 20k Bison fans there, perhaps fewer. It's very natural to overestimate the visiting teams attendance - human beings tend to remember the unexpected, unusual things they see, and forget more mundane things. Seeing a green and gold clad Bison fan at the Dome is memorable. Encountering ing 10 Gopher fans in maroon and gold just doesn't have the same impact. The attendance of Packer fans, Hawkeye fans, and Badger fans at Viking and Gopher games has likewise been over-estimated over the years.

I doubt that a Bison-Sioux game in the Metrodome would attract 40k. In any case, staging the game in the Twin Cities is inappropriate, and, in my opinion, it just ain't gonna happen.

[Siouxtimestwo]

Both teams are DI counters starting in 2009.

When it was last played the game was DII.

The rational for 60k is this:

- 30k NDSU fans showed up for the last NDSU/U of MN game

- UND has more Mpls alumni than NDSU

- 30k + 30k = 60k

30,000!!!

Being D1 has no bearing on how many fans a team has. UND and NDSU have always had the same fan base and always will. That fan base is made up of people that attended the universities and people from North Dakota. People in Minnesota or anywhere else in the country aren't going to all of a sudden care about this game simply because we're now lesser D1 schools. I don't think ESPN is going to be sending its Gameday crew to the Metrodome to see two North Dakota schools play each other in someone else's dumpy stadium. Go back to your lab in the ag department and start mass producing whatever hybrid plant you've been creating and smoking. It obviously is highly effective.

[MplsBison]

Being D1 has no bearing on how many fans a team has.

Data proves this false.

See our average attendance for DII vs DI.

[MplsBison]

I doubt that a Bison-Sioux game in the Metrodome would attract 40k.

Lets just say that the game would cause demand for 30k ticekts hypotehtically.

That still leaves 11k people without seats at the Fargodome or 17k people without seats at the Alerus.

Talk about inappropriate!