Awesome Letter

[SR Fighting Sioux]

Ya know I first came on this forum to give a point of veiw from the native side since no one else appeared to be doin it. But it was obvious from the first responses to my posts that only thing anyone wants to hear is support for the nickname. The only other person to be in favor of changing is hermit and he was banned. But I guess i shouldn't have expected anything better from a "Fighting Sioux" forum. You have all been very useful though. When and if we have a meeting on my Rez regarding the nickname you can bet I will print and circulate some of the garbage from this forum and others I have been on. So i guess a big thank you is in order for doing your parts to get the nickname changed. Peace.

You can be sure, I'll be showing this entire forum at Standing Rock's meetings, "with special emphasis on your's", If you were really trying to make people understand your point of view, you did a terrible job.

[fourwindsboy]

You can be sure, I'll be showing this entire forum at Standing Rock's meetings, "with special emphasis on your's", If you were really trying to make people understand your point of view, you did a terrible job.

Could you do that for me, that would be a big help? Pidamaya.

[fourwindsboy]

Recently I posted on this site and someone took me to task for standing up for what I believe. It had to do with the vile and what I perceived as hostile approach to some members of this board to the actions of TJ Oshie. The presumption of guilt without facts just grates me, probably because as a proud American I was brought up believing that this premise is a key to our democratic groundings. By the same token a member of the Board appears to be presenting themselves as the spokes person of "our" people. This thread began in response to a letter from a Tribal member with one point of view and another Tribal member, with a distinct different perspective, is recklessly allowing the perception to be formed that he speaks for all of us. Neither of these individual's speaks for anyone but themselves. That is their perogative. I too was raised on a reservation - at at time when things were different. My elders and mentors taught me that we must exist in this world consistent with what in our language is termed "Mitakuye Oyasin". Basically, it embodies the premise that we are all related. Some of the vile and hostile notes that I have seen on this board (from those wanting us to believe that they represent Tribal interests) I see as nothing more than a divide and conquer mentality. On one hand I am taken back because this is so inconsistent with our teachings and the other I am wondering if this really isn't someone masquarading just to stir the pot! I do believe that this is a time, if ever, to understand the teachings of our elders, especially when it comes to Mitakuye Oyasin. Someone far more wise than I captured what it means in the followng prayer that is still spoken:

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin....All my relations. I honor you in this circle of life with me today. I am grateful for this opportunity to acknowledge you in this prayer....

To the Creator, for the ultimate gift of life, I thank you.

To the mineral nation that has built and maintained my bones and all foundations of life experience, I thank you.

To the plant nation that sustains my organs and body and gives me healing herbs for sickness, I thank you.

To the animal nation that feeds me from your own flesh and offers your loyal companionship in this walk of life, I thank you.

To the human nation that shares my path as a soul upon the sacred wheel of Earthly life, I thank you.

To the Spirit nation that guides me invisibly through the ups and downs of life and for carrying the torch of light through the Ages. I thank you.

To the Four Winds of Change and Growth, I thank you.

You are all my relations, my relatives, without whom I would not live. We are in the circle of life together, co-existing, co-dependent, co-creating our destiny. One, not more important than the other. One nation evolving from the other and yet each dependent upon the one above. All of us a part of the Great Mystery.

Thank you for this Life.

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin is a simple yet profound statement. It comes from the Lakota Nation and means all my relations. It is spoken during prayer and ceremony to invite and acknowledge all relatives to the moment.

To most of us today, relative means a blood relation or another human in the family lineage. We have not been taught that an entity, other than human, could be a relative. Understanding this simple statement and contemplating it, could change your outlook on life forever. If you love and honor your relatives, you would be loving and honoring most of what is on this earth, if you lived by this meaning of

[The Sicatoka]

... the only rule that I live by is the Golden Rule.

Seems fair, so ....

Imagine the horrors of being of German ancestry and hearing the Idaho Vandals moniker. Those are my fellow Germanic tribesmen and no one asked me for permission.

Go Vandals!

(See, it's being done onto me.)

[redwing77]

Seems fair, so ....

Go Vandals!

(See, it's being done onto me.)

You're white. No one knows the affliction of the non-Whites by a majority.

This nickname is just prolonging the suffering. The Vandals... comon! All that is is a bunch of white hoodlums who deface concrete walls, the sides of railroad cars (including subway train cars), etc.

It's not like that paint has ever hurt people!

[fourwindsboy]

Seems fair, so ....

Go Vandals!

(See, it's being done onto me.)

A stretch, but yes you could say its bein done to you also.

[The Sicatoka]

... its bein done to you also.

It sure is.

But comes the rub:

I choose to see the Vandal tribal name used as anything other than the root word of "vandalism" as a positive, even if it's a moniker of a sports team.

I choose to not be offended by Idaho's Vandals.

[SportsDoc]

We hash and rehash the same issues with new words. This has become such a volatile issue. It is not easily discussed without emotion becoming a major factor to those on both sides. Certainly, the NCAA stance is, at its core, conflicted. It either is or is not

[redwing77]

SportsDoc-

And I'll restate my firm belief that racism may not truthfully hold to an ethnicity but it is treated as a white man's disease.

No one cares if a black guy does "White face" but if a white guy does "black face" he gets torn to shreds.

Racism may exist among non-whites, but it will never be acknowledged because it's to be expected. It is, after all, the white man's fault that the minorities hate the white man.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

But, the reality to me is that keeping the Fighting Sioux name and logo has become a burden and prevents the school from focusing on what it needs to do, which is to educate the next generations of UND students.

I disagree. As you said, one nickname/logo cannot be "hostile and abusive" while an identical one is not. The Fighting Sioux nickname can no more be a "burden" than Ute, Seminole or Pembroke

[MplsBison]

I believe the NCAA wants to punish UND for playing in the Englestad Arena because Mr. Englestad was a Nazi supporter.

They'll bend the rules in whatever way they see fit to make sure UND will not be known as the Fighting Sioux in the future.

[choyt3]

I believe the NCAA wants to punish UND for playing in the Englestad Arena because Mr. Englestad was a Nazi supporter.

They'll bend the rules in whatever way they see fit to make sure UND will not be known as the Fighting Sioux in the future.

Though I understand your point, being a collector of historical memorabilia doesn't go so far as to make Mr. Englestad a "Nazi supporter".

[Goon]

Though I understand your point, being a collector of historical memorabilia doesn't go so far as to make Mr. Englestad a "Nazi supporter".

Not to mention the fact that the FBI cleared Englestad as well.

[SR Fighting Sioux]

here's an interesting letter in the GF, a close friend to englestad wrote in response after the anti-semetic attacks

By Barry Beloff,

Published Tuesday, April 29, 2008

GOLDEN VALLEY, Minn.

[Sioux-cia]

....because Mr. Englestad was a Nazi supporter.

He was not a Nazi supporter and while it sounds good, I don't believe that his collecting Nazi memorabilia is the reason the NC$$ is sticking it to UND. You're just taking this opportunity to post this fallacy when in fact history including an FBI investigation proved he wasn't. But you just go on 'sticking it to UND' if it makes you feel superior to us. I'm sure every little bit helps.

The NC$$ came out with an all encompassing policy, "NO NATIVE AMERICAN NAMES/LOGOS/MASCOTS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!" Then FSU, multimillion dollar money maker for the NC$$, said, "Change your mind or we'll change it for you." So, the NC$$ changed their minds. The rest is history.

I believe the NC$$ is sticking it to UND to try to save face. Their hypocrisy was visible to everyone. So, here we are, the only school required to not have one name sake tribe's suppport, we need two. Therebye, effecting mininimalizing their risk of having to give yet another school a special exemption and looking more the fools as they take their cut from the exempted schools and Pontiac.

[Oxbow6]

here's an interesting letter in the GF, a close friend to englestad wrote in response after the anti-semetic attacks

By Barry Beloff,

Published Tuesday, April 29, 2008

But there are those who know the "real" truth on Ralph and will not stand for this "blasphemy" by Mr. Beloff. The voice of Ralph's friends, like Mr. Beloff, will be drowned out by those in the "know". Just like fourwindsboy is in the know on all things NA and everyone else is out in left field with their thoughts and opinions...including Mr. Fool Bear.

[dagies]

I believe the NCAA wants to punish UND for playing in the Englestad Arena because Mr. Englestad was a Nazi supporter.

I have a copy of Mein Kampf. What does that make me?

[Sioux-cia]

I have a copy of Mein Kampf. What does that make me?

Sgt. Schultz....

[fourwindsboy]

But there are those who know the "real" truth on Ralph and will not stand for this "blasphemy" by Mr. Beloff. The voice of Ralph's friends, like Mr. Beloff, will be drowned out by those in the "know". Just like fourwindsboy is in the know on all things NA and everyone else is out in left field with their thoughts and opinions...including Mr. Fool Bear.

Why is it that when Mr. Foolbear writes a letter and makes his case, he's absolutely speaking the truth and put on a pedestal, but when another NA makes says the oppsite, he's chastised. I did not ever say all members of my tribe were against the name, but a significant number are and that will be enough. I really wanted my alma mater to take the high road as an INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION and do what the leaders of such prestigous universities like Dartmouth and Stanford did in changing their names. I guess they'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Come get some!

[Chewey]

Why is it that when Mr. Foolbear writes a letter and makes his case, he's absolutely speaking the truth and put on a pedestal, but when another NA makes says the oppsite, he's chastised. I did not ever say all members of my tribe were against the name, but a significant number are and that will be enough. I really wanted my alma mater to take the high road as an INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION and do what the leaders of such prestigous universities like Dartmouth and Stanford did in changing their names. I guess they'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Come get some!

Oh, so to be a venerable institution a school must submit to the Star Chamber authoritarianism of the NC00 and the PC nazis? Nice. The NC00 and the PC zealots must be opposed at every turn. If you want an example of something that is close to a modern-day nazi, I give you Myles Brand and the other PC authoritarians. That's just downright scary. Don't even start with Ralph. Myles Brand and Walter Harrison are more Nazi-ish than he could have ever been.

[SR Fighting Sioux]

Where can I find the link to Foolbear's "entire" article, I've only read and heard bits and pieces of it, from my understanding, and what my relatives have told me from SR, he has alot of support down there, all of my family anyway, my grandma loves his articles and hangs them in her bedroom. Don't know any foolbear's, but have been hearing the name alot lately, and alot of positive opinions, so I don't think they're in left field in this issue.

As far as Mr. Beloff goes, I don't know about the rest of you, but who would you choose to believe, people who use Englestad as a tool for their cause, or a close personal friend who is jewish? Forgive me; I look at things from a common sense point of view. I was neutral on this whole logo issue; "until" I found out alot of the anti-logo people were giving false info. I have relatives from 2 Sioux reservations and have heard the same stories from both. The anti-logo crew claiming incident that happened decades ago, are happening everyday at UND. They make it sound like the entire campus is wearing derogatory t-shirts everyday, and the UND faculty and students hates all Indians. If their lying about this, what else are the lying about? When I first came here, I didn

[siouxlove]

Why is it that when Mr. Foolbear writes a letter and makes his case, he's absolutely speaking the truth and put on a pedestal, but when another NA makes says the oppsite, he's chastised. I did not ever say all members of my tribe were against the name, but a significant number are and that will be enough. I really wanted my alma mater to take the high road as an INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION and do what the leaders of such prestigous universities like Dartmouth and Stanford did in changing their names. I guess they'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Come get some!

That's rich!!! Holding up Darthmouth as an example of a positive cause and affect after changing their hostile and abusive name and logo!!

[Sioux-cia]

Where can I find the link to Foolbear's "entire" article, ...

There's a link to it in the first post in this thread. Because of it's age, you'll have to pay a small fee for the entire article.

[Chewey]

Where can I find the link to Foolbear's "entire" article, I've only read and heard bits and pieces of it, from my understanding, and what my relatives have told me from SR, he has alot of support down there, all of my family anyway, my grandma loves his articles and hangs them in her bedroom. Don't know any foolbear's, but have been hearing the name alot lately, and alot of positive opinions, so I don't think they're in left field in this issue.

As far as Mr. Beloff goes, I don't know about the rest of you, but who would you choose to believe, people who use Englestad as a tool for their cause, or a close personal friend who is jewish? Forgive me; I look at things from a common sense point of view. I was neutral on this whole logo issue; "until" I found out alot of the anti-logo people were giving false info. I have relatives from 2 Sioux reservations and have heard the same stories from both. The anti-logo crew claiming incident that happened decades ago, are happening everyday at UND. They make it sound like the entire campus is wearing derogatory t-shirts everyday, and the UND faculty and students hates all Indians. If their lying about this, what else are the lying about? When I first came here, I didn

[Goon]

Try this article.