Dak Posted March 24, 2008 Author Posted March 24, 2008 I was at this party and to think that these girls were honestly aiming discrimination is out of line... Call it insensitivity or what have you... I wore the theme shirt didn't dress up, didn't feel like it, even if I did it would not have been to discriminate! I come on this site probably 15 times a day to check recent news and follow our hockey team.. I am just as big of a Sioux fan as most of you sorry my post number isn't as high as some big deal there are alot like me. My friends think I have a problem because of how much I know and care about Sioux hockey...To say that you have never played cowboys and indians (excuse my french) as a kid or whatever, means you are either too old or were never social as a child... There was no hurt intended by this party and those of you who think this was the sole ending to the nickname have not followed this close enough because its already gone unless the state or someone besides RHHIT and his tribal crew take a tribal vote that cant be tweaked by tribal council.. These girls go to the indian center next door daily to use the printers and computers for homework and such, I have never heard one negative comment about Native Americans from these girls so give them a break. Why dont you do some research and attack some other greek people for YMCA parties or Western parties, hell gangster parties offend italians... there are alot of greeks at und and plenty of needs for party themes you can go on and on checking it out I am not greek so I can only provide a few examples... Mainly the haters should re-evaluate their stance and look into this a little more and see that these are younger kids who meant ZERO harm to Natives or the Nickname.. I'll be readin the posts but wont be responding to this... You can find me responding to something worth my time like the Madison then Denver. You guys are no longer "kids" playing cowboys and indians.
The Sicatoka Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 There's a lot of maturation needed from all sides on this issue.
greenwinger_13 Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Ok i lied, and am replying.. yes this issue would not have been an issue on any other campus, and i hate to say it but come on guys, these are soroity girls.. they say and do alot of dumb things but in the end they never meant to hurt anybody except maybe some girl trying to get on their boyfriend. They get these parties approved by more than just the girls in the soroity.. it gets sent all around to different levels I dont know to exactly who but Mrs. Hakstol is/was someone who could have potentially heard of this and I am sure she never meant to make half of North Dakota think she was trying to "dis" the Sioux nickname dispute.. As i have seen many thousand times, siouxsports has a wide variety of people with endless views, but this is simply a party which never had any hurtful intent.. trust me I have heard first hand since saturday
SiouxMeNow Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 this is simply a party which never had any hurtful intent.. trust me I have heard first hand since saturday The one thing we've all learned from this whole nickname debate is that "intent" loses HANDS DOWN to appearance - at least in the eyes of the PC-crowd and the people who will likely make the ultimate decision about the nickname. Despite the fact they didn't intend to make fun of anyone, they did and their timing could not have been worse considering everything thats going on right now.
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Only in the PC-obsessed world of academia could this possibly be an issue. Can you imagine going to your neighbor's house and demanding that they change their wallpaper because you're offended? The best part is that nobody even knew about it until someone found PHOTOS on line after months had gone by. I'd wager that you can find pictures like this of parties at DOZENS of campuses. Yet people want to try and tie this into a nickname? And I'm utterly shocked to see some of the usual drivel... Blah, blah, blah...This is why the name needs to be changed... blah blah...move on.... blah blah... Don't need a distraction... Yes, only a flamer or someone with a titanium-reinforced concrete agenda could run with a cause and effect relationship here. A person with blinders that stretch to infinity is the likeliest to say "the sky is blue: change the nickname!" "It's raining: lets move on to a nice neutral name!" (In the spirit of slowing down to look at a train wreck, I'm kind of interested to see how this will be worked into a utterly hilarious "interpretation" of the First Amendment. No freedom of how you dress will be tolerated in our Brave New World! )
siouxforeverbaby Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 Ok i lied, and am replying.. yes this issue would not have been an issue on any other campus, and i hate to say it but come on guys, these are soroity girls.. they say and do alot of dumb things but in the end they never meant to hurt anybody except maybe some girl trying to get on their boyfriend. They get these parties approved by more than just the girls in the soroity.. it gets sent all around to different levels I dont know to exactly who but Mrs. Hakstol is/was someone who could have potentially heard of this and I am sure she never meant to make half of North Dakota think she was trying to "dis" the Sioux nickname dispute.. As i have seen many thousand times, siouxsports has a wide variety of people with endless views, but this is simply a party which never had any hurtful intent.. trust me I have heard first hand since saturday you are right that they may not have intended to hurt anyone. BUT THINGS STILL CAN. Sorority, not soroity girls are not dumb and they are not kids. They are young adults who intended to hurt or not should have thought about this and realized that things could go badly especially on the campus of UND. That being said, hindsight is 20/20 and they may not have thought that even if they did think about it. From what I have heard, it was billed as a cowboy-themed party, which is why it could have been approved. And if it was that, then people who were dressed inappropriately should have been sent home. Yes, we all played cowboys and indians when we are little, but we are not 10 anymore and it is time to act like it.
SiouxMeNow Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 From what I have heard, it was billed as a cowboy-themed party, which is why it could have been approved. And if it was that, then people who were dressed inappropriately should have been sent home. Yes, we all played cowboys and indians when we are little, but we are not 10 anymore and it is time to act like it. That's another question I had... The photos were cherrypicked by an anti-nickname busybody but did anyone at the party actually dress up as a cowboy/girl?
Siouxmama Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 That's another question I had... The photos were cherrypicked by an anti-nickname busybody but did anyone at the party actually dress up as a cowboy/girl? There are about 40 pictures there and I think I saw a couple pics with someone in a plaid shirt. I guess that might qualify as "cowboy". Although Mr. Siouxmama's clothes in his closet don't look anything like that.
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted March 24, 2008 Posted March 24, 2008 There are about 40 pictures there and I think I saw a couple pics with someone in a plaid shirt. I guess that might qualify as "cowboy".... Well, now who is to say exactly what a cowboy does and does not look like? Let's not stereotype....
Darth412000 Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 I think the important thing that everyone needs to ask is, "If the Fighting Sioux name and logo go away, will all the ignorant racism go with it?" Unfortunately, I don't think it will. People who are racist are that way because they are ignorant, not because a logo makes them that way. The Fighting Sioux name and loge do not make people racist who are not already racist. Most of us here take nothing but pride in the Fighting Sioux name and history. Our pride should not be shot down and crushed because of the unfortunate, idiotic comments made by stupid people. Unfortunately, if the logo goes, these ignorant people will still be on this campus acting much the same offensive way they do today. On another note - I don't think the school of law would have been offended by a lawyer themed party - we already do enough drinking on our own (people just don't know what "lawyers" look like at the bars) so they don't know we have these "themed" parties all the time already.
darell1976 Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 So if i dress as an Indian for Halloween is that unacceptable too?? THis PC BS needs to stop. If UND changed their nickname then had this party would we be having this discussion?? Its really stupid that a bunch of college kids can't have a party where you dress up pretty soon Halloween is next.
KEH Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnVKkJFYkhg...feature=related
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 So if i dress as an Indian for Halloween is that unacceptable too?? I'm guessing the answer is yes, at least on most college campuses. I think you might be able to get away with it at FSU and Utah (among others). THis PC BS needs to stop. If UND changed their nickname then had this party would we be having this discussion?? Its really stupid that a bunch of college kids can't have a party where you dress up pretty soon Halloween is next. Halloween left the building long ago. Want to dress up as a hobo or bum? Sorry, you're "making fun of the homeless". If my neighbors wanted to paint their garage door with either a swastika, a picture of Christ, a picture of Lenin or a peace sign there is nothing I can do about it. However, on a college campus if you find some on-line pictures of an event that took place months ago and which didn't affect you in the least, you've got a "cause of action" with some PC committee. Go figure. How this type of thing prepares anyone for the real world is beyond me. Just keeps up the "entitlement mentality" that we see on this board....
JackJD Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 "Want to dress up as a hobo or bum? Sorry, you're "making fun of the homeless". You obviously haven't been to Hobo Day at SDSU!
Diggler Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 "Want to dress up as a hobo or bum? Sorry, you're "making fun of the homeless". You obviously haven't been to Hobo Day at SDSU! Isn't that just a typical day in Brookings?
Old Time Hockey Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 Harmless! Leave them kids alone! Am sure these girls thought one day: "How can we make things worse for our school and defending its nickname? I know lets have a party to mock and ridicule people!" This world is so messed up! Sad that this is still an active topic. Please kill this thing!
horsehockey Posted March 26, 2008 Posted March 26, 2008 As sheriff Andy Taylor would say, "nip it Barn".
The Sicatoka Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 If you see someone qualified to receive services from American Indian Student Services wearing a cowboy hat, should you file a complaint? How about if it's kilt at a Halloween party? A Greek toga?
Matt Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 I don't believe these students went to the party with the intent to insult anybody. Unfortunately with this issue, as we have experienced all to well, intent doesn't matter. Those students who dressed up like that....it boggles the mind that they could have such a limited awareness of their environment. Do they do realize they attend UND? Do they know the significance of the nickname issue? If they could answer yes to those questions (and they dang well should), and still put on that costume, it makes one wonder how they were clever enough to gain acceptance to UND in the first place, given their utter lack of awareness of the world beyond the end of their nose...or head dress as it were.
Chief Illiniwek Supporter Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Those students who dressed up like that....it boggles the mind that they could have such a limited awareness of their environment. Do they do realize they attend UND? Do they know the significance of the nickname issue? If they could answer yes to those questions (and they dang well should), and still put on that costume, it makes one wonder how they were clever enough to gain acceptance to UND in the first place, given their utter lack of awareness of the world beyond the end of their nose...or head dress as it were.(emphasis added) OTOH, it could be that they were well aware of the uber-PC people who would find "controversy" and "prejudice" upon seeing a dandelion and they actually INVITED this sort of garbage by dressing this way at a Halloween party. (I think this is the first time on this thread that someone has mentioned the idea that it could be anti-nickname people who not only found four month-old pictures, but also could have been the subject of those pictures. If not, sorry for the rehash.)
Matt Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 (emphasis added) OTOH, it could be that they were well aware of the uber-PC people who would find "controversy" and "prejudice" upon seeing a dandelion and they actually INVITED this sort of garbage by dressing this way at a Halloween party. (I think this is the first time on this thread that someone has mentioned the idea that it could be anti-nickname people who not only found four month-old pictures, but also could have been the subject of those pictures. If not, sorry for the rehash.) Interesting...just so I'm straight...it may be possible that the subjects of the photos may be part of the anti-nickname crowd...and the photos were used by other anti-nickname people for their agenda. Very interesting thought...is this an opportunity to reignite the passions of this issue which have been relatively dormant since the settlement? It's certainly plausible, but if the photos are four months old, why the lag? If those dressing up were trying to cause trouble, you'd think they would be eager for those photos to get out and be made public sooner. Very interesting theory, Chief.
GeauxSioux Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Chuck Haga weighs in and even quotes some on SiouxSports.com .... 'Cowboy' party: one more nail in Sioux logo coffin?The incident sparked another effusive round in the logo debate on Internet forums, including this post on SiouxSports.com, http://forum.siouxsports.com a fan site not officially connected to UND: "No excuse, except they're young and stupid, which we all were at one time. Even though [the party] was off-campus, this is probably the final nail in the coffin of the nickname." Another poster said the party "reminds me of a shindig at [another university] a few years ago. Some brilliant white boys decided to throw a KKK-themed party." He went on: "I'd like to think the majority of us are respectful, realize the history and proudly wear or use the name and logo. Then you have some absolute idiots go and decide to throw a Cowboy/Indian ... party on a campus embroiled in a debate over the nickname. How stupid can you possibly be? ... If they do retire the nickname in the near future (I hope not), I hope they directly link this event to the ultimate decision."
The Sicatoka Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Further proof of why even though you can post something .... should you? This forum isn't a closed-door conversation amongst friends. Chuck Haga weighs in and even quotes some on SiouxSports.com .... 'Cowboy' party: one more nail in Sioux logo coffin?
Chewey Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 It does not seem that anything quoted was bad stuff. What I worry about are the PC plants like "grahamkracker" who may post self-serving racist remarks on this site and get quoted by Haga and others. You see that on the gfherald comment section every time a nickname related issue is discussed. I love the nickname and there is nothing racist about it. They really should press for a vote on the reservation. The natives need to know how much reverence respect we have for the nickname.
ScottM Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Chuck Haga weighs in and even quotes some on SiouxSports.com .... 'Cowboy' party: one more nail in Sioux logo coffin? Hey, Chuck. Apparently, you haven't read the surrender settlement that was sold to us by the AG and the SBoHE, or subsequent comments by Goetz et al. The name/logo is dead, the coffin is sealed shut and the pallbearers are gathering. The only thing missing is a dignified burial, followed by a three day beer blast.
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