Siouxphan27
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Posts posted by Siouxphan27
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I am likely wrong but I don't think Teddy Roosevelt not being native to ND is the issue. First I think Roughriders is the best option left but I am extremely frustrated that IMO after the process we are essentially left with all poor options. When we have this huge list with certain criteria and it appears several of these main criteria were not considered or met by some of the remaining options I feel let down. I actually don't personally feel the name needs to directly relate to ND but it was part of the criteria. It was also supposed to be original which it isn't so that criteria was not required either. If people like the idea of a name associated to TR why not have something like Ranchers because that is what he did while in ND? Sure I don't really care for Roughriders but I am more irritated that it has made it through the process considering the stated criteria.
I was likely being idealistic but I really thought looking at the original list we would have had 3 good options to vote on and would be happy with it. Wow, was I wrong but I did see the red flags as soon as they cut the list down the first time.
Good post. I disagree with Roughriders being the best option left, but otherwise I feel the same way about the criteria, process, and results.
What you mentioned about a name like Ranchers has been part of my beef all along. If we're in love with Teddy Roosevelt, pick a nickname related to something that he did while he was in ND.
Before the last committee/rube gathering where they cut the list down to 7, there were 3 "people-based" names left that at least attempted to recognize something North Dakota-related. In their infinite wisdom, the other two were eliminated, leaving Roughriders as the only option for people wanting to vote for a person-based nickname sort of remotely related to the state. And thus, the reason (I think) a lot of people are leaning towards it because all other options for a ND-based nickname have been eliminated.
It's just too bad all the committee members failed North Dakota History class and have no clue about who the ND settlers were or what they did.
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They've arrested Ashley Hunter and charged him with 2 counts of murder. Some may recognize the name from when he made national headlines for stabbing another guy for refusing to change positions during a 3-some a couple years ago.
Did they even bother to ask the third guy if he wanted to change positions?
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Go Ridas!
Brought to you by Lee Riders Mom Jeans. For when looking your best, isn't important.
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And I didnt attend the University of Robert Otis Kelley. I'd take Teddy Roosevelt well before most figures because he was forward thinking progressive, but still conservative and a conservationist before his time. A Bull Moose.
Where were you when the nickname was under attack? I sent out freedom of information requests to all the Slummit and Big Sky Presidents. There was no email discussion of the nickname at all, except by a few concerned fans. The whole Sioux nickname situation was rigged from top, beginning with Dalrymple and Stenehjam and carried out nefariously by Kelley. Kelley did not once implore the NCAA to change their stance and was effectively a double agent, while people assumed he would back the majority. The SBOHE was either total doofuses or were in on the ploy. Slummit League Commissioner Douple admitted that UND and ND wanted the name to go away, but he was slammed by the Herald, Forum, and Kelley for stating the truth. Bresciani attempted to get revenge on behalf of the SBoHE on him in retaliation. Bresciani had emails on the situations, but deleted them as the whole situation would cause the whole SBoHE and Stenehjem and Dalrymple to come crashing down as a blatant ruse with disregard for honesty. The state will have no part in retrieving those emails, and fired the women attorney who attempted to do so. But where were you when I stated these as issues? Mostly just got attacked here.
Kelley et al will eventually pay for their deceptions. So will Standing Rocks past leadership. Lord knows the people of Standing Rock have suffered enough. But in the meantime, UND is in a crisis and needs a new name and new leadership.
Nice post.
Where was I? I didn't post here then. Thanks for your efforts.
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So people that spend time at UND that credit it with becoming who they are isn't relevant. Guess we shouldn't have Engelstad Arena or claim Matt Greene, Ed Belfour, etc. as something related to UND since they only spent a little time here, regardless if they might not have achieved what they did without their time here. Why are so many alumni that aren't from here even concerned about a new nickname, they shouldn't be if they only spent a small part of their lives here. Maybe the only people that should get to vote on the new nickname are people who have lived in North Dakota their entire life and have ties to UND.
Engelstad Arena.... 100 million I believe? If Matt Greene is willing to donate $100million as well, I would have no problem being the UND Fighting Greene.
Your comparison isn't the same. If you compared my opinion of Roughriders to UND choosing "Imperials" for a nickname, the comparisons would be the same. We could all pay homage to Imperial Palace; something Ralph Engelstad did in another part of his life, in another part of the country.
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Where do you think he learned to become a Rough Rider. No North Dakota, no Rough Riders.
Cowboys meeting Roosevelt for the first time at roundup took him for a weakling. “You could have spanned his waist with your two thumbs and fingers,” one rider recalled. Roosevelt didn’t help matters with his fussy gear: toothbrush, razor, bedroll and spectacles. No self-respecting cowboy wore eyeglasses. “When I went among strangers, I always had to spend 24 hours in living down the fact that I wore spectacles,” he wrote, “remaining as long as I could judiciously deaf to any side remarks about ‘four eyes,’ unless it became evident that my being quiet was misconstrued and that it was better to bring matters to a head at once.” At the roundup, he told one Texan who called him “Storm Windows” to “put up or shut up,” either fight or be friends. The Texan opted for friendship.
When the cowboys learned Roosevelt could ride 100 miles a day after a full night in the saddle and spend 40 hours on horseback while wearing out five horses, they came to respect him. Roosevelt explained years later, “As with all other forms of work, so on the roundup a man of ordinary power, who nevertheless does not shirk things merely because they are disagreeable or irksome, soon earns his place.”
After 32 days and a thousand miles on the trail, the other Badlands cowboys accepted Roosevelt as one of their own. One tough ranch foreman’s assessment: “That four-eyed maverick has sand in his craw a-plenty.” Roosevelt even received public acclaim in the Sioux Falls Daily Press, which wrote of him, “When he first went on the range, the cowboys took him for a dude, but soon they realized the stuff of which the youngster was built, and there is no man now who inspires such enthusiastic regard among them as he.”
As I've said before, if people like the name roughrider, that's just fine, we all have opinions.
People always mention stories about Teddy Roosevelt; why not mention a few stories about the Roughriders themselves? I think I know the answer...
The nickname committee had an opportunity to advance a few names that referred to the actual people that settled our state. As part of their criteria from the beginning, I thought a few of those names like Sodbusters or Settlers would've had a chance of advancing. But instead, the only name that attempts to honor ND heritage that is left on the list, is in fact a name that honors Teddy Roosevelt; not North Dakota. I didn't attend the University of Teddy Roosevelt.
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TR died in 1919.
If when UND dumped "Flickertails" (in the 1930s) and put in "Roughriders" (to remember TR and his time in ND) would it be an issue?
< Beware, blasphemy to follow >
Could the folks, in that 1930s vote, have made a mistake by selecting what they did (for us to have to deal with 80 years later)?
People in 1930 knew the Roughriders were a Cavalry that originated in Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona, and New Mexico. They also knew that an attempt to raise a Roughriders division in World War I, failed. Roughriders would have never been considered by those folks as being something related to North Dakota.
Fast forward just 80 years, and after a couple decades of people "learning" their ND "history" from "Legendary" ND Tourism commercials, and suddenly we're all "Bully" for Roughriders. it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
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In person, oral exam; Chewey and I as proctors. (jdub27 is my alternate; siouxphan27 is Chewey's alternate.)
Russ McDonald will not be part of this group.
Thank you for your consideration. Can I add some ND history questions to the exam?
:-)
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I mostly just don't like roughriders because it isn't in any way original and I think we could do a lot better.
As far as the History, I grew up only thinking of ND as the peace garden state or flickertail state and had never heard Roughrider State but I certainly didn't look into it. Can someone enlighten me as to how the Rough Riders have anything to do with ND? I know that Roosevelt commanded them but not in or near ND and from my understanding the soldiers in the Rough Riders all came from the southwest part of the US. So did we become the roughrider state just because Teddy Roosevelt spent a little time in ND?
To answer your last question- in a word- yes.
Read the Wikipedia entry concerning the Roughriders to get a summary.
Medora and ND Tourism have done a fine job of promoting the Roughriders as a ND thing....
I look at it as a -if you say something enough times, eventually it becomes true- sort of deals.
But it's clear a lot of people on siouxsports don't care about that. Which is fine, we all have opinions.
For me personally the 4 strikes against Roughriders are
1. Fabricated ND history
2. Condom manufacturer
3. Local high school name
4. I just plain don't like the name.
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The logo is just as important as the name and this logo is very good. I wasn't big on the Fighting Hawks name but this logo makes it acceptable. I think it could be a good compromise...it looks like the Ben Brien logo with a hawk face...it is also basically the same logo as the Chicago Black Hawks bird logo that is sometimes used; only difference is the color of the feathers. If you remember, our Indian head logo worn until the 90's was the exact same logo as The Black Hawks except for the color of the feathers so it also harkens back to that tradition and we are a hockey school so I like that too. Fighting Hawks is not a Native American name...no way the NCAA can have an issue with it. Another reason I like it: it will not make the logos in the Ralph look obsolete like rough riders or any other team logo would...this logo would actually be an extension of the Sioux logo just like the Black Hawks bird logo is an extension of their Indian head logo. All in all it is very cool looking and ties into our past nicely.
I like this idea. Very good points about tying in to the Sioux logos in the Ralph.
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Someone better call the Trojans at USC and fill them in on this. They might want to change their name quickly so they do not get continually laughed at.
1912. History. Tradition.
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What are you? A sailor? Who uses condoms?............Austin Powers
Lol lol lol
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So, when you hear about Weston Dressler and Greg Hardin playing for the Saskatchewan Roughriders, you think of condoms? That would invoke the same thought process, I guess. Not for me.
I said people out of the region unfamiliar with the southwestern U.S. Cowboys who fought in Cuba.
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Yes, he laughed out loud. I said it's the best of the 7 and he still felt it was funny because "it's a condom."
Most people outside the area that aren't familiar with north Dakotas highest award, or north Dakotas fantasy connection to teddy Roosevelt's Roughriders, (which would be pretty much everyone outside the area), will think of condoms when hearing the name.
This is the stage of the process where the consultants earn their keep. But, the committee has disappointed thus far, so they will probably choose to ignore the experts' advice on Roughriders.
If it's chosen, maybe Spring Fest could be replaced with Ribbed Fest.
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We should ask the Trojans, all of them, how they deal with that:
Anderson College (Anderson, South Carolina)
Dakota State University (Madison, South Dakota)
Hannibal-LaGrange College (Hannibal, Missouri)
Mount Olive College (Mount Olive, North Carolina)
Taylor University (Upland, Indiana)
Trevecca Nazarene University (Nashville, Tennessee)
Trinity International University (Deerfield, Illinois)
Troy University (Troy, Alabama) (former name: Troy State University)
University of Arkansas-Little Rock (Little Rock, Arkansas)
University of Southern California (Los Angeles, California) (men's team)
Virginia State University (Petersburg, Virginia)
Goodness people, I thought universities promoted such things these days.
It ain't 1912 anymore, me boy! ( the year USC chose Trojans)
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Last new idea....and a last ditch effort to keep the Sioux logo alive.
First step is to choose "NoDaks" as our nickname. As much as I don't care for the name, it plays into my way of keeping the logo. But, what is a NoDak? We all know the answer, but it's generic. It's such a broad stroke for a very diverse state of people. My idea would expand on this nickname. Here's how...
Each athletic team would choose one of a number of major groups of people in the state, but modern and historic, and from men to women. The baseball team could be a soldier from a cavalry, the track team construction workers (male and female versions), the football team a [bison] hunter (thanks Tim!), etc.....Vikings, nationalities, construction workers, fishermen and hunters, etc, could all be represented. The possibilities are endless. We're all NoDaks!
And our hockey team would represent the Spirit Lake Sioux, by using the Sioux logo (any non-participating tribes would not be represented).
Each team would get to choose each year whom they'd like to represent with no regard to gender, race, etc...
Call me desperate!
Very good idea!
The possibilities are nearly endless here. The name can be shaped many different ways to reflect anything that North Dakota takes pride in.
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I worry about the consultant's capabilities and credentials if they know nothing about certain words beyond what they read on urban dictionary. Then again, maybe they are personally familiar with certain definitions of certain words, and unfamiliar with Teddy Roosevelt and his relationship with North Dakota.
Then again, that probably explains every consultant's fascination with < school color here > Hawks. It's "safe" and all they know.
It doesn't appear the consultants are using the urban dictionary for their research; if they were, Sundogs would've also been flagged as dirty.
I think they're just looking at the potential challenges of rebranding a very well known condom as a nickname.
I think their role is to help point out problems that could arise, and steer schools away from making risky/risqué decisions that could result in a choice that winds up backfiring.
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You mean the "Bully Pit"!! So many possibilities with Roughriders. The hockey teams new motto could be "Walk softly and carry a big stick"!
Maybe the same committee and consultants could convene and decide on the name of the new stadium?
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And if their isn't a dirty connotation that can be applied to a name, it probably sucks. And if the name doesn't suck then it probably has already been used by somebody. And if.....
We can go round and round forever. ITS A F'CKING NICKNAME. Get over yourselves. Pick a damn name and get this over with so the University and it's fans can move on and start investing our capital in something that matters.
The bolded part.... are you referring to Roughriders, or Sundoggers? Please specify.... :-)
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You do know that mentality, if followed by the committee, will leave UND with either _____ Hawks or Sundogs when this is all said and done? I do hope you fully understand that!
All the remaining new nickname choices fail to live up to the parameters set forth at the beginning of this process... and I find none of them to be great choices.
But, with what's left, If a nickname is chosen, i'd be fine with one of the Hawks, or Nodaks. North Dakota is filled with Hawks. Watching them sit stoically on a post, or hunt their prey in the fields never gets old.
Nodaks probably works for a majority of the no nickname crowd, and would allow for many possibilities for mascots and logos that reflect North Dakota pride.
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As has been pointed out, people can vote multiple times on some of these newspaper polls, and here at SiouxSports there's what, a hundred plus rubes that have voted.... is that enough to have a true pulse of all those who may vote?
a lot of people have mentioned we need to have a nickname, as it's important for branding, and like Norm on Cheers, everyone will now know our name. Nationwide, worldwide even.
But, when the consultants recommend that Roughrider is a poor choice for marketing and branding reasons because, outside of the immediate region, it is only well known for its dirty connotation, the pro nickname/pro Roughrider folks apparently all of a sudden don't care about branding and marketing ability outside the immediate region anymore. It's an interesting take, for sure.
The consultants have probably taken 5 minutes to read the Wikipedia entry concerning Roughriders, and realized that the Roughriders were not North Dakotans. Only one Roughrider, a 16 year old son of the Head Veterinarian at NDSU, was from North Dakota. The consultants are most likely struggling with the tangential link to get from southwestern U.S. cavalry group, to Teddy Roosevelt's time in North Dakota, to North Dakota nickname. (oh that's right, there's an award, lol) The consultants probably don't understand why some people are interested in choosing a condom name that creates marketing and branding challenges. The consultants were hired for a reason. Hopefully the committee doesn't go all rube and just do their own thing without taking any advice. Hopefully the committee listens to the consultants' concerns.
Where the rubber meets the road, Roughriders might be a hard sell.
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The fact that the consulting firm, which is making a killing financially with this bogus process, questions the marketability of Ridas because of their perceived "dirty" connotation is absurd.
The only thing I have seen that has been "dirty" in this process is the Kelley minions, Russ, et al shoving Sundogs down the peace pipes of everyone formally involved in this mess right now.
I suppose the consulting firm's concern is if Roughriders is chosen, UND will be subject to a lot of ribbing.
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The committee members obviously disapprove of the military.
Lol yes, apparently they do.
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Anyone know what was said in the meeting that prompted them to eliminate Cavalry and Explorers before the voting tonight?
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North Dakota Roughriders?
in UND Nickname
Posted
Are we that hard up we have to adopt someone, and the cavalry he led from a different part of the United States, to base our nickname on?
If U of Michigan had to do it all over again, would they choose Wolverines in the year 2015? We have the advantage of being able to look back at our history, and base our choice on how our state has developed, how its history has played out.