zonadub

Huh? What? Did I miss something here?

the statement she makes that really gave me pause: this whole fight among ourselves is really being looked at as a joke by the rest of the country. I don't like reading statements like that, even from Twin Cities writers. Benny... there are so few teams with native american nicknames, it will be difficult to come up with a list of schools who have announced that they will no longer play teams with native american nicknames, I just don't know how you can list the schools that won't play Alcorn State because of their nickname. Really, what other measure is there besides the list of schools (MN, WI, IA) that have officially announced they won't play UND?

That may be, but USD was added to the MVFC, and the MVC may be looking for an all-sports member to keep the status quo in the MVFC with the Summit schools. North Dakota would bring no Summit League ties into the MVC that a NDSU, SDSU, USD or another previous member of the Summit would. Bottom line is that UND will still have to get off the NCAA sanction list to get in to any conference - BSC, WAC, MWCUSA, MVC, Summit - you name it.

not if UND is still dealing with NCAA sanctions

Wouldn't you think that recruits are a lot more on top of what school is the Fighting Sioux than some headline writer in Connecticut?

I think what you are forgetting is that for every casual one-game-at-a-time Bison fan that couldn't afford the extra $$, there would be a Sioux fan lining up to pay that extra cash to the NDSU athletic dept. Wouldn't that be satisfying to the Bison faithful? Gouging the Sioux fans for an extra $10 or $20 a seat? How many out of town fans come to Fargo to watch the Robert Morris's and Wagner's? You certainly cannot infer that the UND-NDSU game could not sell out at a higher price. It must be that you fear that NDSU fans can't afford the ticket price and that there would actually be some Sioux fans at the Fargodome. Disclaimer: I would prefer that UND-NDSU play every other or every third year and put the South Dakota schools and Northern Iowa into the mix. This is with the caveat that UND gets to join the Big Sky after all the other distractions are addressed.

Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock.

Better than most

doggone it, ira... there you go makin' sense again. thanks

and yet, some on this forum continually point out that Standing Rock has elected tribal council members that do not vote 'for' the nickname. sorry to point this out, but the nickname is not the most pressing issue for any elected official, whether federal, state or tribal. as such, UND is just going to have to live with the consequences. unfortunately, ira, sica, scott and others are probably correct that even with Standing Rock tribal approval, at this point it is too late. so, the only recourse left is Spirit Lake's pending suit. and that will be a long, expensive process that may result in nothing changing either.

how about the WASPs?

and the Portland Vikings

Thank you, Benny. I have skimmed the 4 articles you linked, but not being an attorney, its going to take me a while to actually try to digest what they say. An early reaction to them is that basically, there is nothing that has not been discussed in these threads already. Seminoles, Chippewa & Utes got tribal approval, Illini got a pass by dropping the Chief & saying its about the state not a tribe, and almost everyone else changed their nicknames. Illinois lost the chance to host an NCAA tennis tournament before the waiver was given to them. The NCAA did not keep them out of the tournament, but they could not host it. but, as I said earlier, I'm a layperson when it comes to the law, so I don't know what I missed. googling "Sioux Unhappy: Challenging the NCAA’s Ban on Native American Imagery, 42 Tulsa L. Rev. 171 (2006-2007)” by Kelly P. O’Neill" brings up a lexis nexis link, but only gives the intro paragraph to the non-subscriber. Maybe one of the attorneys on this forum would be able the check it. You sound like you have a law background, Benny. Do you have access to lexis nexis? Thank you again, Benny.

if you have a link, I would really like to read that. thank you!

yeah, if NDSU would express some interest in rounding out the Big Sky & being a travel partner for UND, I think the Big Sky would listen. eventually, SDSU and USD could follow. but this has been discussed on other threads before...

State Board asks for statement from ND Supreme Court declaring nickname law unconstitutional

Maybe, just maybe Faison knew the South Dakota Board of Regents was not going to approve the exit fee for the Coyotes to get out of the Summit. If that was the case, was Faison jumping the gun or being proactive? If the Big Sky presidents knew that USD was not going to be joining the league along with UND, would they have pulled the offer? Maybe Faison accepted the offer early for a good reason. The MVFC has never been receptive to UND, and I really wonder where the idea came from that there is a gentleman's agreement not to leave a team without a conference. I also wonder where the idea is coming from that UND can just go to the Summit. If I remember correctly, Douple & Faison had a bit of a contentious media exchange last year and there may be a bridge to rebuild before the Summit would consider UND. Plus, the Summit has already come out publicly with the position that the nickname issue must be resolved first.

that is assuming, if the Sioux do not win the conference tourney, that they will get an at-large bid. the NCAA can select whomever they decide. will the nickname cause them to pass over the Sioux in favor of another school if it is a close call?

it may have been quite a few years ago, but when I was a student (in the 70's) & Rube Bjorkman was the hockey coach, the football team was bigger than hockey. I think basketball was also bigger in the 60's. I know, a long time ago for some of you, but history has a way of repeating itself.

too bad that is not a poll of the people who have the deciding vote in Indianapolis

OK, what if the Fighting Sioux football team doesn't win the conference to get a tournament autobid and is ranked, say, #19 or #20 in a 20 team playoff scenario? If the NCAA has any 'justifiable' reason to pick another team over UND for the playoffs, what does the nickname mean then? Same thing for other playoff possibilities... men's hockey (they seem to be teetering on that precipice right now), women's hockey, volleyball, women's basketball, even possibly men's basketball, others as well... you do not have to win the conference to get an at-large invite to the tournaments, but will a school on the H & A list get the benefit of the doubt? We do not have the answer to that one until it happens, but I have a strong uninformed opinion. If the Fighting Sioux are passed over for a playoff berth because of the nickname, it is doing harm to the school, the athletic teams and to the conference. The Big Sky presidents & Fullerton will definitely take notice of something like that happening. Let's say that UND finishes just ahead of Eastern Washington in the conference football standings, but the Screaming Eagles would have been ranked #20 had they not played and lost to UND in a conference game, which (hypothetically) pushed their rank to #22, and then out of the playoffs. Where, if UND had been relegated to the Great West Conference (or now, independence since the GWFC is gone), E Washington would not have played the Sioux and beat someone like McNeese State instead and thus been ranked high enough to get an at-large bid. What would the conversations be like at the conference meetings if the Sioux were excluded from the playoffs for the nickname then? Would UND be kicked out of the Big Sky for something like keeping another Big Sky team from getting an at-large invitation? I still believe the Montana's and Northern Colorado would back UND, but in a case like this, all bets are off. Sorry, seems like I'm rambling with a bunch of random thoughts here, but hope you get my idea. Its not just home field if UND wins the conference, its the risk of giving the NCAA a reason to pick someone else for at-large bids, too.

anygivensaturday.com a very good FCS fan forum. another good one is championshipsubdivision.com

So, here is a question that I have not seen come up in this thread, yet... What if... the repeal initiative goes to a vote. The state votes it down, because we are afraid of what it means to UND with the NCAA and especially the Big Sky. BUT, there is a two-thirds approval in BOTH of the reservation precincts, such as Sioux and Benson Counties? Would the people who are supposedly supporting the rights of native americans in Indianapolis listen to the native vote or the statewide (mostly white) vote, since they are doing this FOR the native americans? Would someone who has a better grasp of the legal side of what is going on here have any ideas?

What planet have you been hanging out on?