UND-FB-FAN
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Posts posted by UND-FB-FAN
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It is a major factor, which is why I started this thread. UND needs to have more support for football and basketball, one way or another.Money.
UND's coaching salaries are mediocre at best when you look at the Big Sky Conference counterparts.
In terms of football, UND thankfully got a really good coach at a home state discount, which is why the football program is moving forward. Still need to up salary for assistant coaches and potential contract extensions.
Basketball, on the other hand, is nowhere where it needs to be. Low-end salaries just within the Big Sky Conference; need improved salaries which should then be given to a new coach.
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Zero reason UND shouldn't be a perennial top 3rd of the conference team. Only UM, MSY, and EWU should really ever be in the way.
Time to drop sports and pursue actual excellence. Welcome to division 1.
Bubba's perennial expectation - which I agree with - is to win the Big Sky Conference. In doing so, UND may not win the conference, but they should at least finish second or third, which would result in a playoff bid. Basically, UND football should be a top 24 team every year and be in the playoffs every season.
It's more than doable and it should be the expectation; thankfully, it is.
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Yes, let's get back to blaming hockey for football's failures. Actually, there are many reasons why we find ourselves having to climb out of an 8 year Musshole. A poor hiring decision in the first place, a shortsighted contract extension, loss of revenue caused by play on the field (Muss put out the cockiest, mouthiest 3-8 team I have ever seen) to name a few. It's not Hockey's fault that they are one of the premier programs in the country and have demanding, dedicated fans. Actually, our incredible tolerance for mediocrity and crap teams contributed greatly to the great slide. In every other sport but hockey we not only accept, but some vocally defend poor programs (see Men's BB). I hate to say it, but there is absolutely no way in God's green earth that the school to the south would have tolerated Muss for 8 years. That's the problem.
So then, if we want to not focus on the relatively insufficient finances for football and basketball, what is the reason why UND football does not have a top 3 salary pool in the Big Sky Conference (it's No. 4 I believe) and why is UND baketball stuck with a mediocre coach at best in Jones and not made important upgrades to the Betty?
UND football is on the right path, I honestly believe it, but there's still no reason to now become complacent. Let's look at the facts: UND has yet to have a winning record as a member of the Big Sky Conference. There's no end to the potential coming up, but the winning still needs to be done. Finances need to be raised, and when hockey sucks up over $5.6 million per year, there's definitey some budget there that could be used on football uniform costs, HPC Phase II costs, and/or Betty Upgrades.
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A lot of prospects have been offered lately. It's a part of the staff's plan to get these kids to the summer camps. The camps are very crucial to recruiting, as the staff gets to see the kids go through drills in person.
2016 has the potential to be a special class, and Bubba just keeps compiling what appear to be top BSC classes.
Continual improvement is likely, so expect 2015 season to be a winning campaign.
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3) Lower the budget of hockey, and/or cut some programs, and then allocate the money saved to a combination of basketball and football.
IMO, basketball offers the best potential bang for the buck.
okay....
So you basically just stated that UND basketball needs more support. Yes, this is true, but there's no use doing so until the coach for the program is a capable one. Jones is not. Now, finances for Betty upgrades should be raised immediately.
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UND supports 21 DI programs; NDSU supports 16 DI programs.
Pull the hockey budgets (M/W) out of UND, and UND is running 19 programs on a smaller budget than NDSU runs 16 programs on.
Based on that, I'd have no problem at looking at UND's programs and making tough decisions.
Two ways to realistically look at raising UND football's budget:
1) Lower the budget/expenses of UND hockey and allocate the savings to UND football
and/or
2) Shutdown some programs (women's hockey, softball, etc.) and then allocate the savings to UND football.
One of these things should happen. UND football needs more financial support.
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If I add to this, it would be - as some posters pointed out - that the UND hockey operations revenue is under-reported. That is, the REA likely appropriates funds to the athletic department; however, with that said, I think that would still be listed under contributions. Bottom-line: even UND hockey is a losing money operation; however, student fees cover that up real quickly. It's a matter of "how much" do the programs lose relatively speaking. Currently,football loses the most, but winning and upping attendance would have an effect on that.http://www.undsports.com/fls/13500/Athletic%20Dept/BusOps/FY%202014%20NCAA%20AUP.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=13500
NCAA Report
Reporting Year (FY): 2014
Total Operating Revenues:
Football ---> $571,570
Men's Basketball ----> $402,211
Men's Hockey------> $4,140,720
Total Operating Expenses:
Football -----> $3,129,340
Men's Basketball -----> $ 1,085,943
Men's Hockey ----> $5,633,741
Excess of Revenue over Expenses:
Football----> - $2,557,700
Men's Basketball ----> - $683,732
Men's Hockey -----> - $1,493,021
To summarize, look at expenses, which covers vital program quality indicators such as coaching salaries, recruiting costs, and equipment/uniform costs. UND hockey uses $2 million more than UND football. That is where the change needs to happen; too large of a discrepancy. Hockey can still be king at a $1 million difference.
And if the annual loss of money surprises you, then read this: http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx
Winning athletic programs may ultimately affect total university revenue by increasing enrollment numbers; thus, collegiate athletics are very much so thriving. Of course, it is limited to fan favorite sports; football and basketball. Grand Forks is the exception as it is a hockey town.
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Per the quote from the article I included: "As a result, most colleges and universities rely on what the NCAA calls “allocated revenue.” This includes direct and indirect support from general funds, student fees, and government appropriations. In other words, most colleges subsidize their athletics programs, sometimes to startling degrees."
What the REA offers would be known as "allocated revenue", and it wouldn't have to be reported as operations revenue.
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I'm by no means a hockey only guy, as I've been to several road football trips the past handful of years but perhaps football should start bringing in more money and it could get a bigger cut of the funds. If the two were switched and 3.2 mil was being spent on hockey when it only brought in $571k you would question why we are devoting so much to such a program. Even more so if it showed the similar lack of positive results over the last decade.
This is where it gets tricky; athletic programs lose money, its just the way it is. Hockey loses money and so does football. Yes, football loses more than hockey, which is part of the reason the "revenue-generation" arguments from hockey-only supporters comes into play. But, the difference in coaching salaries/equipment/uniforms/recruiting dollars for UND football vs. UND hockey is $2 million; that's too much. If hockey lowered their expenditures down to just $5 million, they would theoretically give UND football an extra $600,000 which would be phenomenal for the football program.
Lastly, the football team will bring in much more when winning. Tickets sales will go up if UND wins consistently, which will minimize the revenue-expense margin. You have to spend money to make money, and I think UND athletics could do a better job investing in UND football.
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Does anyone have any information on what the revenue was for Sioux Hockey last season? How about NDSU football? Which one has a bigger revenue stream contribution to the University? How about contribution after expenses?
http://www.undsports.com/fls/13500/Athletic%20Dept/BusOps/FY%202014%20NCAA%20AUP.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=13500
NCAA Report
Reporting Year (FY): 2014
Total Operating Revenues:
Football ---> $571,570
Men's Basketball ----> $402,211
Men's Hockey------> $4,140,720
Total Operating Expenses:
Football -----> $3,129,340
Men's Basketball -----> $ 1,085,943
Men's Hockey ----> $5,633,741
Excess of Revenue over Expenses:
Football----> - $2,557,700
Men's Basketball ----> - $683,732
Men's Hockey -----> - $1,493,021
To summarize, look at expenses, which covers vital program quality indicators such as coaching salaries, recruiting costs, and equipment/uniform costs. UND hockey uses $2 million more than UND football. That is where the change needs to happen; too large of a discrepancy. Hockey can still be king at a $1 million difference.
And if the annual loss of money surprises you, then read this: http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Myth-College-Sports-Are-a-Cash-Cow2.aspx
Winning athletic programs may ultimately affect total university revenue by increasing enrollment numbers; thus, collegiate athletics are very much so thriving. Of course, it is limited to fan favorite sports; football and basketball. Grand Forks is the exception as it is a hockey town.
As a result, most colleges and universities rely on what the NCAA calls “allocated revenue.” This includes direct and indirect support from general funds, student fees, and government appropriations. In other words, most colleges subsidize their athletics programs, sometimes to startling degrees.
At liberal arts colleges like the one I attended, varsity sports drive enrollment. Should that count as profit? Any number of UGA students will tell you they came here because of the football team. What about goodwill generated among legislators and donors?
College sports can be a marvelous value experience and a focal point for community-building. But only a few colleges have programs that can provide such benefits without imposing significant costs on their institutions. -
Yep. Football will get there, but still could use improvements; can't get complacent.NDSU is where we are aspiring to be. Multiple football championships and multiple March madness tournaments. We can moan all we want about why but they have hired all the right coaches by allotting proper coaching salaries and assistants. Our basketball program is mediocre at best and football has been poor for 5 years.
We shot ourselves in the foot by not paying competitive salaries to our coaches and assistants.
Here are the 2 goals I have
1) MBB must win the Big Sky or Jones needs to be fired as he has had far to much time.
2) football finishes the season with a winning record. It is a tough schedule and this is only year 2.
I hate to agree with NDSU fans on this but they are better than us in every way right now. Results speak for themselves and I am embarrassed by ours lately.
If you're a football and basketball fan, as I am, UND has been embarrassed by NDSU recently. That needs to change with - as you said - better coaches in the area of basketball and better budget for equipment/facility improvements in the area of football. The HPC will be great for football, but the new coaching offices and meeting/film rooms of phase II are also a huge deal. UND needs to get that funded and built sooner rather than later, because then UND and Bubba will be in great position.
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I agree with you.Here's the problem: there are really only two NCAA sports that matter in terms of fan popularity and national media exposure -- basketball and football. All of the schools that you mentioned have one of those two sports as their primary sport. The exposure that an Alabama gets from its football team, or a Duke gets from its basketball team, so greatly out weighs the exposure UND gets from its hockey team that your comparing UND to those schools is absurd.
The hard reality for UND as a hockey school is that a couple of sweet sixteen runs in the NCAA men's basketball tournament -- which is, I think, attainable for either NDSU or UND -- would return more media exposure and national interest than a hockey program ever can.
It's the reality of UND being a hockey school, in that they are limited in the amount of recognition they can receive. The hockey program is already maxed out, so the only way to improve UND athletics' support - which is needed, by the way - is to improve football and basketball.
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UND dropped the ball on that one back then and I'm not going to defend their actions, other than hindsight is 20/20. Even NDSU and SDSU weren't entirely sure how successful they would be when making the jump up, regardless of how much you want to gloat now. UND's timing is not so much the issue as is the fact UND's administration with Fasion was/has been hesitant in giving enough funding to football and basketball and limiting hockey. NDSU didn't have the "hockey problem" to worry about when moving up, and by that I mean they didn't have to heavily fund a sport that wasn't football or basketball.Hard to believe that you actually believe your BS. UND didn't move up because they already had a successful DI sport and were happy with DII in all others. UND did their best to try and have the SU's fail in their transition to DI, but we all know how that worked out. Because of NDSU's success in their transition UND athletic dept was under a lot of pressure to move up. They did so without a plan unlike the SU's which had studied the move for years. UND's logic was if the SU's can do it'll be no problem for us. Your transition period was by far the worst in the Dakota's and it's still a problem today.(your standings in the BSC all sports standing shows this)
UND still needs to work on improving the budget for football and basketball. Football had a bit of a budget bump when Bubba was hired, putting them at fourth in the Big Sky Conference, but basketball is still way behind.
To say hockey doesn't factor into that is negligent; hockey absorbs a huge portion of the athletic department budget, but we know that isn't going away so UND just needs to raise more funds.
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Jones probably didn't offer him but I bet he plans on trying to get him to transfer here......
A plan that never seems to fail for ol' Jonsey...
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Too flat..... It's like a lighter version of Baylors awful green ones when they had RG3. What a waste of money.
It matches the jersey color and the color won't change as much as the old ones did with the reflections of the Alerus Center lighting. Nothing wrong with it.
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I like it! I would assume it's an "alternate" helmet?
EDIT: As long as it matches the green on the jersey's/pants. One potential issue with a lighter green for the jersey's is they get darker as the guys sweat, which doesn't look good with a lighter green helmet.
No, it will likely be the main helmet, as the matte finish is a change to all helmets, I believe. Also, the new Adidas jerseys won't be like the green Nike jerseys they are replacing. In other words, the green Adidas jerseys won't drastically change color with sweat like the Nike jerseys did.
Both the helmet and Adidas uniform change are an upgrade!
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When you think Duke, you think BB. When you think Alabama, you think FB. When you think UND, you think ..............?
Duke has a football team in which many fans are passionate about, but you don't really think of Duke as a FB school. Same could be said about Alabama and BB. Like it or not, UND is known for its hockey. This doesn't mean that the other sports can't be competitive. It's just the way it is. I don't think the NFL is looking at Bubba or Brian Jones as potential coaching candidates. Hakstol just signed a deal with the Flyers as the first college coach to make the jump since Badger Bob. I'm not saying scrap the other sports, I love going to football games when we are competitive. It's not a hockey only attitude, it's just the fact that people are more supportive/interested in teams that have more success. Sorry, but that is the reality!
Yes, we understand UND is a hockey school, but that is not where this argument is based. Also, this is not an argument about revenue generation, because, again, we all know UND men's hockey will forever be the king in that category. Rather, when I created this thread, I was concerned about the support and attention given to non-hockey programs at UND. I am concerned about the dedication and ingenuity that the athletic department as a whole allocates towards UND football and basketball. Basically, I believe a large portion of the department is meant to focus on only hockey, per the direction of Brian Faison.
Support of multiple programs, particularly the two most popular collegiate sports in the country, football and basketball, should be conducted by any athletic administration. Examples of regional FCS programs that are above average to good in more than one sport include NDSU, UNI, Montana, and South Dakota State. UND should be in that category too; that is, having at least two men's programs that are annually above average to good. Fortunately, It does appear that UND football will be that second program to UND hockey.
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I would argue that Roger Thomas was the Athletic Director that hurt UND football the most by using the wait and see approach, rather than being proactive like NDSU. We had gone ahead of them in football, now look at where the programs are at.
There's no question about it; UND should have made the move up with NDSU. Bit that's in the past, whereas the Faison/administration support issue is yet contemporary.
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Exactly! You prove my point! If Faison was committed to UND football and basketball, he would make the necessary changes rather than sit on losing seasons. The argument can be made that Mussman should have been fired a year or two earlier; that is, if Faison had not extended Mussman for no established, confident reason at all. Also, why does Brian Jones still have his job then, if he is the core reason for UND MBB's mediocrity? All of this is because Faison values the hockey program, and all the other, lesser revenue-generating programs are on cruise control with very little thought or ingenuity involved from the top..
Enough with the inferiority complex! Let Bubba do his thing. Football has it's new training facility that was funded with public $'s. Football is in its position due to one main reason, the hiring of Chris Mussman. Not the fact that Faison says we have the best hockey program in the country. Give it a rest. The basketball team sucks for similar reasons as I understand.
Bubba is the best thing to happen to UND football in quite some time, mainly because he will lead the program with solid expectations and hard work, which ultimately will get UND football to where it should be (like I mentioned earlier; a team that consistently wins at the FCS level, like Montana State or Northern Iowa). Faison just seems indifferent on the whole football/basketball thing, which is discouraging.
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My comments were not bitter towards the hockey program; not quite sure how you came to that conclusion. My issue, although minor, is with UND's administration, which emphasizes hockey to the point where they forget about football and basketball. Have you looked at the BSC rankings and records for UND? Have you looked at the attendance of UND football and basketball recently? They are not acceptable.Not sure why you are bitter about the hockey program. As far as I can see, the main obstacle for football dominance was Muss and I would point out that he had some vocal supporters on this board until things went south at the very end. We have Bubba now, and as far as I can see he has been given pretty much free reign. In addition, we are soon moving into our new indoor practice facility. UND hockey was the best program in the country before they moved into the New Ralph - hell they won a couple of championships playing in the Barn. It's up to the football players and coaches to make themselves the best program in the country. Blaming hockey for their success is just plain silly.
I couldn't agree more that Bubba is the perfect head coach for UND and that the High Performance Center will help things in recruiting and preparation; however, that does not preclude the fact that Faison tends to overlook football and that is what bothers me.
Here's to a great 2015 football season! Go UND!
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I have no problem with an alternate jersey. Not a Notre Dame fan at all but their "green jersey" was always pretty cool. Same thing with the Miami Hurricanes with the green jersey and orange jersey (along with the road whites). Florida has the orange jersey - Georgia had the black one year or two. My issue is with schools like Oregon, whose brand is so diluted with what seems like 300 possible combinations of helmet/jersey/pants.
Oregon is an extreme example; UND won't be doing that, that's for sure.
However, we can't get too caught up in OUR opinions. The players and prospective recruits are the most important factor in the uniform debate. If they want sparkles and ribbons, give them sparkles and ribbons, especially if it results in top prospects committing and UND racking up wins.
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UND certainly doesn't need any fancy, shiny new unifroms like what some college football teams now wear. They should, however, have some alternate options as far as colors of pants, jersey, and helmets. The recruits - especially those not from the area and not particularly familiar with UND tradition - would appreciate uniform variability like that in terms of appearance. Green helmet along with either gray, black, and/or white alternate; green jersey along with black alternate; white pants along with green, gray, and/or black alternates. It's the uniform "option" strategy that many Big Sky Conference teams are utilizing, like Eastern Washington, Montana, and Montana State.This please. No "combat anthracite" or "post-apocalypse black" jerseys and no chrome helmets or stripes on the facemask because RECRUITZ WILL THINK THEY'RE KOOLZ!
NO NO NO!
To my knowledge, UND is going this route.
Set of Green and white jerseys and set of green and white pants for 2015 from Adidas; alternate gray or black jersey/pants set in 2016.
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True, I just haven't heard Mr.Faison ever say, in the press or at alumni/booster events, that he expects UND football to become one of the best in the country.It is "....best men's hockey program in the country..."
Nothing in the prior statement prevents or precludes UND Football from achieving similar status.
I ultimately believe that Bubba has UND doing the things necessary to become one of the best programs in the Big Sky Conference, but I just want a bit more support from UND's athletic department itself.
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Expectation?
Ha! Not too bad of expectations right there, if I do say so myself.
UND @ NDSU Gameyear Thread
in Football
Posted
But the bottom line is that the atmosphere during the week leading up to the game and the tailgating outside the dome will be crazy. Its going to be WAY bigger than anything UNI or SDSU could produce, that's for sure.
Then, all that is left is for Bubba and the boys to pull the upset.