Bison06

"Out card" meaning not removed from the team forever, which is what I expect and will be calling for if no new information surfaces. Even if it was completely self defense, I would like to see him suspended for at least 2-3 games.

Well then for the love of all that is holy, what in the sam hell are you arguing with me about if you agree with that?

What world are you living in, are you even reading what I am writing? Did you miss the part where I said he would return to the team after a suspension for "being in that situation". Never once did I say the words "throw the first punch".

For the record, I am not defending him. If what is being reported in the media is correct, I expect him to be kicked off the team. A few posters are claiming to know something the rest of us don't, could be BS, it's all conjecture until the videos are viewed. But, that is what these posters and myself are responding to.

Good Lord man, take off your blinders. I am talking about self defense. If it turns out the other guy came at him and ended up getting cold cocked it is a bit different than what is being reported right now. If Travis was backed into a corner and attacked and the other guy winds up the hospital, then damn straight he should be back on the team at some point. AFTER a suspension for being in this situation.

Haha, good effort. But, I've read that thread too and let me shed a bit of light on those out of context quotes that you are using as 'proof' NDSU fans want him to play this fall regardless of what he did. 1st quote is a fair point by that poster. If it turns out the facts are different than what is being reported and he wasn't the aggressor he shouldn't be completely kicked off the team. 2nd quote has absolutely nothing to do with getting him on the field. Only that he will be supported. Nothing wrong with that. 3rd quote responding to someone who is saying Beck wasn't the aggressor. If that is found to be true, I would be in favor of him returning to the team after a suspension. As would most people. 4th quote completely tongue in cheek, context my friend, it would serve you well to read between the lines. 5th quote if the video indeed does show him to be the victim in all this, why wouldn't the charges be dropped? 6th quote he was responding to someone saying he should be kicked out of SCHOOL. Again, it helps to read what people are responding to. Any more brain busters?

As usual, SiouxVolley doesn't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

This is exactly what I was getting at. The criticism of the team from my perspective has been lack of fundamentals, which falls directly under coaching. Yet, many in this thread are saying "wait until Muss gets his guys". I don't get it. It doesn't matter if you have Ray Lewis playing middle linebacker, if you don't get him in the right defensive set and give him the proper keys, he looks like a pop warner guy. I hope we can agree that NDSU has been well coached the entire time under Coach Bohl. Yes they've had some down seasons, but even in the down years, we were in every game(I don't subscribe to moral victories. Different than acknowledging NDSU playing well and still losing) due to NDSU's great discipline and fundamentals. I am of the opinion that a well coached team will appear well coached even if they have less talent. SIU is a great example under Lennon. They have been poor in the win loss column, but if you watch them play you KNOW they are a well-coached hard nosed team. Upgrading talent doesn't put you in the right defense, it doesn't make game day decisions and/or halftime adjustments. I am just curious why UND fans seem to be so understanding of the lack of great football in Grand Forks recently by saying "wait til we have better talent". To answer your question, I believe that Mussman would have been gone after last season if he were at NDSU. It makes sense to ride someone out through the transition, but to get blown out by the class of the Big Sky like that, would not have been acceptable. IMO.

Most of the critics of Mussman on this board don't mention lack of talent on the team as a major reason for the team's lack of success. In fact, it's just the opposite. Most posters on this board believe that UND is more talented than NDSU at most positions. So why is recruiting being brought up as a reason the team hasn't had success?

Yeah, that's a common place for fights to happen in my experience. Hopefully for all parties the incident was caught on tape. A lot of people congregate there as they walk out of those 3 bars. Couple that with some end of the night "beer muscle" and it's a perfect storm for a male appendage length dispute.

Sports bar, Fort Knox, Ob sportszone.

Feigning concern on this board over those two measures has run it's course and fallen out of favor IMO. Old news. If it turns out he is guilty of these allegations, I would be in favor of removing him from the team. A bar fight can happen to a lot of people, but self control is needed. These young men are highly trained and very strong, they need to understand the potential they have to SERIOUSLY hurt or kill someone when they get into brawls. Hope they guy turns out to be fine.

I don't necessarily think you need to view giveaways or gimmicks as devaluing the product. I would view it as a loss leader in a way. Spend some money(take a hit on profit) to introduce people that otherwise wouldn't know or care to your product and show them a great time by winning. If tailgating becomes a great experience, many of these casual fans will begin to attend games simply for the pre-party. It becomes a self generating cycle, but it begins with getting butts in the seats. What's the old saying? People go where people go? If you have a newby showing up for their first UND football game and there is 7k there, do you think they'll be excited, or ever come back? Not likely. What if that same person showed up to a game where 7k paid for their tickets and 6k were given away, but it was packed? Much better experience and maybe they come back and pay for a ticket next time.

CMSioux doth protest too much, methinks.

The subtleties of sarcasm and irony seem to escape you my friend.

Since they distribute drugs, I always assumed they went under the heading of criminal. Is that incorrect?

Can we get this thread back onto talking about how dirty of a program NDSU is and how all players both past and present are criminals and/or farmers? Sheesh, you guys act like you don't want to overreact to players not showing up for community service anymore. Good lord, what sort of UND fans are you?

Enjoy it while it last fellas, that pendulum has a way of swinging back the other direction after a bit.

haha, can't argue with that I suppose. In the context of my entire body of posts in this thread where I said a suspension was warranted, this is but a minor blemish.

UND is a very good school and a degree from there is well respected in most circles. With that said, it's no disgrace or insult to say Notre Dame is on a different level. Notre Dame is considered one of the best schools in the world. By most measures NDSU and UND are very much on the same level. Obviously, in some instances one school offers programs the other doesn't, but by and large there is no difference. Which is why I always find it funny when people say NDSU is such an inferior school.

haha, please don't waste your time. I have been consistent since the beginning that these players should have been suspended at least 1 if not 2 games. The only thing I have been opposed to is the commentary on this board that UND players are immune to legal troubles and that NDSU runs a dirty program. Both are false.

Good to know I haven't lost any credibility then. Never once have I rationalized these players not being punished. In fact, I said from the beginning they should have been suspended.

I was young for most of his tenure, but from what I have heard you are probably right. If the stories I've heard are true, there isn't anything near that going on at NDSU now.

So has NDSU.

You lose credibility when you mention UND and Notre Dame in the same breathe academically. http://www.forbes.com/colleges/university-of-north-dakota/ http://www.forbes.com/colleges/university-of-notre-dame/