Oxbow6

My wife is from Marshfield (Clinic) where I trained so our flag is up and waving proudly. Pack 20 Denver (and all 9 of T. Henry's kids) 17

On a side note, I read the GF Herald, Bismarck Tribune and Fargo Forum on Saturday concerning the Indian leadership's response to the settlement. There seems to be, at this point, little chance from their responses that a deal will or could be worked out. What I did find laughable were the comments from David Gipp, president of United Tribes Technical College in Bismarck. He was qouted as saying that UND's "meddling" during this 3 year period of negotiations will cause "untold damage" in the lives of "good (Indian) people and families". Is he serious? This is the mentality that UND will have to deal with for 3 years. Indian leadership in this state continues to see the tree and not the forest. The real "untold damage" has been going on for decades in the form of high rates of unemployment, alcoholism, teen pregnancies, high school drop-outs and single parent homes. I am always waiting to hear Indian leadership address these real issues that are causing and will continue to cause "untold damage", but my feeling is that the UND Sioux logo and nickname will be long gone before this state's true Indian social/cultural issues are addressed by it's own leadership To think that UND can work out a deal with this type of thinking and leadership will be difficult to say the least.

Oshie and Duncan had 3 total points for the year coming into this game. Just doubled down a few minutes into the 2nd!

4 goals in the last 3 games (8 periods) is not the offensive production UND should be getting with the talent and depth they have. UND needs to put a minimum of 4 on the board tonight and with JPL playing solid--SIOUX 5 LEGO BUILDERS 2

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they only have 3 points TOTAL between them in the 4 games so far.

Second goal he didn't see at all thru traffic and the 3rd goal was an empty netter. JPL played well enough for UND to win. 4 goals in the last 8 periods is more of a concern!!!

From today's Fargo Forum: "Allowing the 3-year period to influence the tribes leaves the door open for UND and its agents to continue their meddling in the social and political affairs of tribal nations, causing untold damage in the lives of good people and families who only wish to have their ways and heritage respected." David Gipp, President of United Tribes Technical College Are you kidding me?! Meddling? Causing untold damage? Again, it's Indian leadership seeing a tree and not the forest. The Indian leadership mentality, for generations, has been: No one is going to me/us what to do. But yet do they present any solutions for their troubled "social and political affairs"? Of course not. If you're going to complain, fine. But then have some type of solution for what you're complianing about. Heritage?? Over the last few decades what is that?? Politcal corruption within tribal government, astronomical rates of alcoholism, teen pregnancy rates and high school drop-out rates within their own tribes. And that is just the tip of the iceberg! Should I go on? There is damge being done to "good people and families", but it is not because of UND's nickname/logo. UND needs to take the lead and say enough is enough. UND sets the date for the name change and then UND starts requiring Indian students to meet the same academic standards as their fellow peers to gain enterance into UND and then we'll see how long it take for the Indian leadership starts to barking racism over what is fair and just in the real world. Enough pandering to a society that just wants to "have thier ways and heritage respected". Let them for once try to make a way on their own.

To further my point from earlier this morning and it has be said many times in this thread, the leadership for the native American people will eventually be called on the carpet by it's own people down the road if and when the nickname is dropped. To me, Jeanotte and His Horse Is Thunder are the equivalent of Jesse Jackson and AL Sharpton to this state's Indian population. Both are constantly pointing the finger at others for ALL the Indian problems of this state. Tell me what either has done to lift up the Indian community in a positive fashion?? The PC, minority, liberal bent posed by both of these "leaders" has worn thin to say the least. When has either taken up the soap box against Indian high school drop-out rates, teen pregnancy rates, unemployment rates and I could go on and on...

I'm still laughing!! Amid all the disappointment from the 'settlement" and reading much of this thread, that was a classic!!

I agree. Since most decisions/compromises of this nature end in some type of financial restitution, if the Sioux name lives beyond the 3 year negotation period there will be some financial benefit to the tribes involved.

i.e. Florida State and the Seminole tribe.

The issue that I struggle with, and have since this nickname issue came up, is the fact the UND has one of the largest Indian colleges on it's campus in the nation and those who work and are educated in that college are the one's who are barking the loudest--i.e. Leigh Jeanotte and the rest of the campus PC tools! As many others on this board, I support financially both UND athletics and the general educational endowment. Leigh Jeanotte and other Indian college employees and students speaks of a "hostile and abusive" nickmane and campus enviroment, but still are willing to except, public and PRIVATE, dollars in the form of salary and scholarships from that same "hostile and abusive" university and it's financial supporters. Talk about hypocritical and biting the hand that feeds you. If the tribes, along with the students and staff of the Indian college at UND, continue to oppose the nickname and it is dropped in 3 years, I know I will struggle to continue to support the educational endowment as some of my money (in taxes as well), even though it probably is a small percentage, is going to the salaries and and scholarships of those in the Indian college. This could be a long-term win-win situation with the logo/nickname, Sioux heritage and Indian college on campus, but PC always seems to trump common sense in today's society. If the Sioux tribe fails to support the nickname in 3 years, so be it. The fact remains that Indian tribe's in this state do, and will continue to, have bigger societial issues to deal with down the road. But past history tells us that those issues probably won't be dealt with with same vigor and zeal.

Have 2 tickets for Sat. Nov. 3 vs. CC in Sec. 110 Row J. Looking to swap those 2 for 2 tickets in the lower bowl for the Friday (Nov. 2) CC game. tmetzger@dakcl.com

Exactly--never. Just like NDSU!! If you think there were 30,000 Bison fans at the Dome, you are also the one who is telling his buddies the final score was 40-0!!

I see the game going one of 2 ways. UND comes and makes a statement and easily wins by 3+ TDs or UMD hangs around and it comes down to the final couple of possesions and then it's a coin flip. I think UND rolls--49-24.

I would estimate 25 people. One sign that caught my attention was "Respect Tribal Government" and another sign was "My People Are Not Logos". To the protestor's credit, they were civil, but for the most part went unnoticed by the Sioux faithful attending the game.

1) I apologize, you can leave now. 2) Yes, we all can do more, but for some it is easier if someone else does it for them. 3) NO, anti-enabling person

That sounds like a cop-out. Politics aside, MOST leaders try to do what they think is best for the "community" as a whole, but we, as a society, have become so indoctorinated in believing that it is always someone elses fault and that someone else will fix my problems. Again, how about getting back to personal accountibility and responsibility and going from there whether your white, black, red or green.

Since you are obviously leaning to left in your ideology, don't face east today or the strong south wind will blow you completely on our head! There is no pointing of the finger, just wanting the same enthusiasm and zeal from those, and obviously you, who feel the logo and nickname is an issue to tackle those other Native American issues that seem to be irrelevant by those same people. Facts are facts. Leadership is leadership, but as the old "Cowboy" saying goes, "You can only bring a horse to water..." I'm not going to get into a tit for tat. Your opinion is that...just an opinion as is mine, but instead of taking insulting shots at an opinion you don't like, how about providing some facts or insight as to what solutions are being provided for the "continued cultural problems of our fellow people". Your insight would be welcomed...

That is the bottom line: Lack of accountabililty and leadership by the state's Native American "leaders" as a whole. Where is their protest or platform against generations of unemployment, alcoholism, high high school drop-out rates and high rates of teen pregnancies just to name a few of their social/cultural ills? The blame for their problems has and always will come from some other entity other than looking in the mirror and facing the facts that generation apon generation of lack of own personal responsibility is why their "culture" continues to struggle!! The nickname/logo excuse is just that--an excuse--to hide from the real issues at hand the plague our state's Native American population. They, the PC crowd, can protest all they want, but it is hard to hear their voice and reasoning on the UND nickname/logo issue when you never hear them take a stance on what the REAL issues are in the Indian culture. If changing the logo/nickname brings more respect to the Native American people themselves and in turn makes them want to take more responsibility/accountability for themselves, I am all for it. But if anyone thinks that changing the UND name is going to get a 16 year old male on the reservation to say "Now I have more respect for myself and now I will further my education and be a better contributing member to society" you are fooling yourself. I also believe change is in the future: the logo/nicknames--yes, but not the continued cultural problems of the Native American people in ND because frankly, as it has been in the past, it is always easier to point the finger at something or someone else for your problems!

Pathetic and ignorant! 66-7 NDSU if the 2 teams played? Really? I always love to hear from NDSU fans who are punch drunk on their own Kool-Aid! Is NDSU a good FB team--Absolutely. But the reality is a game between the 2 team would be closer than most NDSU fans think it would be. Speaking of pathetic and ignorant, a friend and Bison fan told me yesterday he thinks NDSU would lose MAYBE 2 games if they played a Big Ten schedule this year. Ah, the Kool-Aid!! At least the NDSU grad who mows my lawn doesn't seem drunk as he has not taken out my fence of bushes with his riding mower. Yes, the sky is the limit with a degree from NDSU!!

That's why your "significant other" makes the chick from Betty Ugly look like Jennifer Garner . Or in your case, is it more like your "significant other" makes Conan O'Brien look like Matt Damon

"Lighten up, Francis!!" The shot about playing SUU was a joke. NDSU should and will beat them by 30+. I saw both teams play within a weeks span. Have you seen UND play this year? Has any Bison fan on this board seen UND play this year? How can you have an opinion without seeing both teams play--IN PERSON. That is my point. Both teams have pluses and minuses from what I SAW. But to think that just because NDSU is in a higher division makes them a better team is not the case. I think a game between the 2 would be a good, close game. I don't know who would win on, again, a neutral field. But the arguments from Bison fans are holding little water because all you folks know is what you see and that is only NDSU FB. Let's hear from a Bison fan who has seen both teams play this year and then I'll listen.