dlsiouxfan

SDSU hardly ever beat the Sioux when both schools were D2, how can SDSU suddenlty with the addition of only 5-10 more scholarships suddently become this force that will crush UND. UNC was actually a better program and football team at the Division 2 level. They're awful now. NDSU has a jump start but we'd quickly close the gap and things would be back to the status quo that they were a few years ago when we beat them 9 of the last 13 times. I don't know much about Cal Poly but I do remember the last time UND played Davis and the outcome wasn't too good for Davis on that one.

I agree completely Red River will be a force to be reckoned with in the Regionals. I was at the game against DL they had them on the ropes for most of the second half. Red River has always been a notoriously tough gym to go into and come out with a win. Maybe they're home town advantage will carry over into the EDC and state tournaments.

Just thought I'd add this on here... especially with the EDC regional and State here in Gf. Who do you think will be the contenders and the pretenders. I'm picking Devils Lake.... Kind of the underdogs against the big schools. South is pretty good too though and you never know who will come from out West. I hope this thread takes off.

The only major roadblock out there is using the Alerus Center. They overcharge us for using the facility for football games and practices already. If we can somehow negotiate a better rate this could be a possibility and would also put are athletic budget back in the black.

Pretty sure when we use to play NDSU all we did was beat on the Bison. I'm glad you can remember the last time the Bison won a title because lord knows I can't. In fact ask anyone under the age of 20 about the two programs and see which one they remember wearing title rings. The Bison had one strong decade and have been pretty average otherwise. UND will have three players off this year's team playing on Sundays. How many will the Bison have?

Fair enough.... I know of another sight you should visit it's called bisonville.com. I expect to see a post like this tomorrow.

By all measures I hope women's hockey can be successful and profitable. In fact with what we now have invested in it we need it to be both. When we're running an athletic budget in the red some things need to be looked at. In my opinion some of the things that should be looked a is the tremendous amount of waste in the two hockey programs. Every athlete on UND's campus pays for their own workout gear while the two hockey teams are outfitted with four sets of workout gear. This isn't shorts and t- shirts either, but $60 a pop Under Armor gear. Also in the past women's hockey has gone on "team building" camping trips before the start of the season paid for out of athletic department pockets. It's not just the girls team either the men's teams averaging $60,000 a pop for every road trip this season. The fact that men's hockey is the breadwinner for our athletic program makes their excess more acceptable. However, with our current budget problems I don't feel it's fair some programs are being asked to cut costs (BB, Football) while others are given a blank check. The money we're investing in the women's hockey program has to come from somewhere and taking it from other programs that have been around a lot longer and had a lot more success shouldn't be the answer.

The principle point that needs to made is whether or not we're getting what we're paying for. Women's hockey has a budget that's on par with the other major sports teams on campus (WBB, MBB, Men's hockey, and football). With the budget they have we've seen them have two conference wins this season. For the investment we have put in the program we should expect to see some results or people need to be held accountable (i.e. coaches). For comparison sakes many are calling for Coach Glas' head in MBB for the decline in MBB program. Well guess what when you cut a programs budget 30 percent you see declines in performance. Also, football just got theirs axed 10 percent and I guarantee we'll see heads roll if that program falls off. By that same token Women's hockey has gotten more funding every year and have we seen any notable improvement.

I believe what Coachdags is referring to is how REA has influenced decisions regarding UND athletics. A number of these which now appear are going to cost us great sums of money in the future (i.e. women's hockey, the Betty). It wouldn't be such a big deal but now our athletic department is in the red and REA needs to share a large portion of the blame.

That may be so but I still don't see how that's going to help us pay for it. Look at Minnesota they have they top program in the nation and it loses money. Also as to the expected performance level of the team, women's soccer was started about the same time and has seen the postseason a number of times despite dramatically less funding than the women's hockey program and at least three different head coaches. If we're going to pour money into this hand over fist then we better get some results. I know we started it to manage title IX but their had to be some other women's sport that doesn't eat up revenue like women's hockey does.

Good, I hope so because something has to stop the bleeding when it comes to that program. My only real opposition to the way we've handled women's hockey is that we took money from highly successful programs (WBB, MBB) to fund a program that's been a major disappointment. I think a large part of the decision was due to the influence REA had in the athletic deparment at the time. In many ways the REA has been both a godsend and a thorn in the side for UND athletics.

Agreed, starting women's hockey was probably the most shortsighted move UND administration ever made. Their had to be some other women's sport we could have started that wouldn't chew up cash like women's hockey does. Having it is basically like burning money and it doesn't matter how much we ever win it'll never pay it's way. Secondly, for all the resources we're throwing into it we better start to expect more bang for our buck. Their needs to be some accountability at the coaching level, if any other program that was getting the budget women's hockey gets consistently underperforms like they do their coach would be searching the want ads.

Kupchella on a bus out of town

I'm as big a Sioux fan as they come and I can't stand the Bison, but the article by Foss was a piece of crap and made UND fans sound like jealous whiners. Personally I'd much rather watch a D-I basketball or a Sioux basketball game for that matter than a Sioux hockey game. Nothing against hockey but that's just what I find more enjoyable. The other fact is that the Bison win over Wisconsin got more media attention on that day then any of our hockey titles. I'm not saying that it should have, but almost 2/3's of the country could care less about hockey.

If we're going to go by that same standard then maybe it should be applied in every day life. Looking at ND Deparment Highway statistics from 2005 the age group that saw the greatest rise in DUI's were adults 60 plus years of age. The number nearly tripled from 2004. By that measure we should start having traffic checkpoints located by every Elks and Eagles Club and every driver with an AARP sticker should be pulled over and given a breathalyzer. Sound ridiculous doesn't it. So is punishing just the student section at the Ralph because their causing the most problems.

I'm sorry if this is off topic but I have some issues with your statement that college is becoming more and more like high school every day. Feel free to enlighten me but how so. Academic requirements are significantly higher at almost every university. The average cost of college has reached a level where pretty much every student will have to work job while attending school. To me a person working a job, while at the same time attending a university doesn't compare very well to your average high schooler. Your comment about immature classroom behavior is also quite offbase. I've attended many classes here at UND the last few years and I can't really say I've ever seen anything I'd call immature classroom behavior.

Murray is no longer eligible for D-1 football due to the expiration of his five year clock which starts when you play your first year of college football. He redshirted then missed another season with an injury and therefore has a season of eligibility left but will be starting his six year. Seems like a stupid rule by the NCAA but I'm glad we got him. There is no five year clock in D2.

Losing the student section would be among one of the worst things that could be done for the program. A lot of the current season ticket holders probably became Sioux hockey fans watching from the student section when they were students. Eliminating the student section would also serve the purpose of decreasing the future fan base for Sioux hockey. It wouldn't take long for students and future UND grads to lose ties with a program they have no allegiances to since they've never had the opportunity to see them play. Eliminating the student section would be incredibly shortsighted and would hurt the REA's pocketbook in the long run.

The UND athletic programs current level of success at the Division II level can be directly attributed to the fact that we have been able to get Division I and Division I-AA level athletes from the local areas due to the lack of Division I level schools recruiting in this area. If we start losing these kids to NDSU and SDSU we'll start to suffer in all our athletic programs (especially football) at the Division II level. Two examples of this are this year's instate recruiting where we've lost most of the top ND recruits to the Bison and also the fact that we haven't gotten a player out of SD (once a hotbed for future Sioux football players) in a number of years. If we aren't getting the talent we once were getting and soon we're struggling to put together winning seasons at the D-II level attendance will drop far more than it will during a D-I exploratory period.

If UND comes down hard on the students at this meeting and the atmosphere at the REA diminishes to one similar to the Chester Fritz Library, I sure hope that no one who supported reigning in the student section comes on here or any other public forum upset that the arena lacks atmosphere. An active student section and a positive crowd atmosphere go hand in hand. If UND wants to run the REA as if it were a morgue then they can do it, but they had better not cry when they get basically what they wanted.

One point that is really lost in this debate is the fact that the same student who feels like he's being pushed around by the university now could still have the same feelings later on when he's an alumni. Most of the current season ticket holders probably fell in love with Sioux hockey when they were a student and most likely a majority of them engaged in some unruly behavior at the Old Ralph. If students no longer feel like they're welcome at the games when these student become alumni they'll no longer have the strong desire to attend Sioux hockey games and pay the thousands of dollars it costs to get season tickets. UND/REA should remember that same student whose being told to sit down and shut up now 10 years from now will be the person they'll be expecting to shell out big bucks for tickets.

Just for the sake of argument a position by in a position by position comparison we have the Bison beat more often that not... Offense: QB: Belmore and Manke I would say are even matches with Walker and Parsons Edge: Even RB: Steffes is quite a RB and gives the Bison the edge in this area over Beatty, however a healthy Strouth lets us match up a little better Edge: NDSU WR: Dressler and Grossman are excellent receivers and even though neither may be as fast as Marques Johnson they will put up much better numbers. Groeschl and Heckendorf matchup pretty evenly and are similar players. UND's young backups Caulfield and Nicholas give us the edge. Edge: UND OL: UND has future NFL starter Kris Kuper and some other very solid OL. NDSU has a number of solid OL but none who stand out or could play at the next level. Edge: UND FB/TE: NDSU uses their's a lot more in their offense as receivers while ours do more blocking. Edge NDSU but I think this may have more to do with the differing offensive philosophies K: Glas beats Vartanian every time. Edge: UND Defense: DL: Once again the differing philosophies lead the schools to look for different types of players. But while NDSU's d-line gets quite a bit of hype I doubt any of them have the athleticism to challenge Adam Wolff or Ross Brennan (both who were only part- time starters for us this season). Also with Peterson, Duchscher, Cadwell, Richter, White, and Nelesson we have much better depth at the position than they do. Edge: UND LB: Philosophy also makes comparison's difficult here as well, but you won't find a better unit at either the D-2 or D-1AA level than we had this past season and while Mays be exciting to watch the edge goes to UND big time. CB: Hoffschneider and Alexander vs. Babich and Walter. Close one but I'll give this one to us Edge: UND S: Gagner would be the best player for either teams secondary this season. Edge: UND P: Dragosavich had better numbers than Halfman though both are excellent punters. Edge NDSU KR/PR: Dressler and Washington are very similar players, however Dressler doesn't seem to make the blunders Washington does. Edge: UND

UND is as good or better than NDSU in every conceivable area than NDSU except for athletics. Not too long ago we were the premier athletic program in the state, but with their D-1 move they've surpassed us in many peoples eyes. For me this is unacceptable as I'm sure it is for many Sioux fans. I for one don't want to go back to the years when they beat us 12 straight years in football. That was bad for the entire athletic program and it was bad for the university. If we stay where we are I guess we are the big fish in a small pond, sadly though it will be a pond that the majority of sports fans in this state don't care about. UMary and the DAC-10 schools don't belong on the same playing fields as us and neither do the Mesa States, Winona States, and UMC- Crookston's of the world. UND athletics and athletes deserve the chance to shine on a bigger stage.

UND may have to move up to Division I if they wish to make money. With football now apparently running into the same recruiting problems that have plagued the men's basketball team, we're now faced with the possibility of the casual ND sports fan writing off UND athletics as inferior to NDSU's. If attendance starts dropping in the Alerus as casual fans start heading south to watch NDSU play Montana as we play Mesa State the athletic department will be even further in the red. Kupchella needs to stop sitting on his hands on this, the committee better recommend a Division I move or we'll have to settle for being second fiddle to the Bison on the ND sports scene for the next 10 years. Alumni dollars will be there to fund a D-I move and if we have to cut a few non- revenue sports to balance the budget so be it. The sacrifices will be well worth it.

These recent commitments convince me more and more that UND needs to go Division I ASAP. If NDSU continues to get first picks at all of the local talent as it appears is happening this will be disastrous for our football program. If we don't watch out we'll end up sacrificing a great football tradition here at UND so our non- revenue sports can be competitive. Continuing to lose these kids is bad for the program and if it continues we'll be a shell of the power we are now. Kupchella and the administration need to start looking forward and due what's best for the marquee athletic teams here at UND.