Protest at Homecoming

[sioux7>5]

OK I just watched that report and I have to say. That lady is a liar. There is no way that someone actually yelled that they were going to Fuc$ing kill her. I do not buy that for a second. This was at best some very minor league reporting.

Give me that tape and I will edit it to show that the protesters were there to show there support for the name. Photoshop and some nice edits and I could tell the story differenty.

[PCM]

OK I just watched that report and I have to say. That lady is a liar.

I happen to know that lady and if she says it happened, I believe it happened. What's missing is the context.

[sioux7>5]

I happen to know that lady and if she says it happened, I believe it happened. What's missing is the context.

Really, you think it did. Then that makes me sad for the fans that yelled it.

[andtheHomeoftheSIOUX!!]

Of course this same child never sees the "I heart the Sioux" t-shirts or bumper stickers or whatever.

And the child never ever seems to wonder why people would want to "kill" the Eagles. Or Dolphins. Or Colts. Or Browns. Or Texans. Or Cowboys. Or Lions. Or Vikings. Or Patriots. Or the

Saints

. Or the

Padres

.

This is exactly why it is so ridiculous when people bring this kind of stuff up. Nobody has anything against the Sioux when they are cheering against the UND sports teams. I am just as patriotic as the next guy even though I would not necessarily pull for the NFL team. Also, I am a devout Roman Catholic and have no problems with the Padres or Saints. And there are many other Christians that do not have a problem with those teams.

[PCM]

Really, you think it did. Then that makes me sad for the fans that yelled it.

The question is, whose fans yelled it? I have to wonder because the other protestor interviewed for the story talked about fans of opposing teams yelling "Kill the Sioux!"

So was it a threat by Sioux fans aimed at the protestors or was it some Augustana fans who thought that they were yelling at Sioux fans?

I'd like to think that Sioux fans aren't that dumb, but it wouldn't surprise me if some were that drunk or that stupid or both.

[SiouxMeNow]

I will give ALL the protesters credit for standing face-first in a 30mph wind for 2 hours on saturday...that couldn't have been fun

[Chewey]

The question is, whose fans yelled it? I have to wonder because the other protestor interviewed for the story talked about fans of opposing teams yelling "Kill the Sioux!"

So was it a threat by Sioux fans aimed at the protestors or was it some Augustana fans who thought that they were yelling at Sioux fans?

I'd like to think that Sioux fans aren't that dumb, but it wouldn't surprise me if some were that drunk or that stupid or both.

How about the protest-minded malcontents having one of their own do it? They are certainly not above doing that. Remember Graham Kracker?

[PCM]

How about the protest-minded malcontents having one of their own do it? They are certainly not above doing that. Remember Graham Kracker?

Seems as if it would be rather hard to pull off in such a wide open public setting, don't you think?

[SoCalSiouxFan]

I almost forgot. I'm glad this group is out there protesting against Auggie for using the "Vikings". I think we should help these 5 people out and make this a huge turnout against the "Vikings" nickname! Drown these people out by just standing with them and our "Norwegians are not mascots" signs. A perfect way for this nonsense to stop. A group of people standing up for Norwegians in Norway who have no voice!

New sign idea: "Gophers are Rodents not Mascots".

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

New sign idea: "Gophers are Rodents not Mascots".

Sign idea for the LA Coliseum: "Trojans are ......... not mascots"

[Chewey]

Seems as if it would be rather hard to pull off in such a wide open public setting, don't you think?

I would not think it would be beyond them. They could always use some stand in from SCSU (Jan Brady State) or the UM that would not be recognized as "one of them." It might be paranoid, but I don't think it's beyond their "the ends justify the means" mentality.

[dagies]

This piece by Katherine Kersten in the Star Trib isn't related to the name controversy, but has a potentially relevant angle.

Robert Lichter of the Center for Media and Public Affairs has studied protest movements. He points out that political protest has changed since the '20s and '30s, when those involved were usually poor. (Think Hoovervilles and hungry, jobless people.) Their protest was "instrumental" --aimed at getting the government assistance they needed to stay afloat.

The '60s and '70s brought a sea change. For the middle- and upper-class young people who flooded into the streets, protest became a vehicle for self-assertion -- the "politics of personal expression." (Think Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin.) Middle-class kids wore their arrest record as a badge of honor.

In his psychological studies of '60s-style radicals, Lichter discovered two revealing things: They scored high on the power scale, exhibiting a strong need to feel powerful. They also scored high on narcissism -- the need to call attention to themselves, to get public notice. Not surprisingly, Lichter says, protesters often latched onto high-sounding motives to justify their self-absorbed actions. "You can't take expressions of love for humanity at face value," he explains. "They can serve as cover for aggressive feelings and tendencies." A phenomenon like Critical Mass "allows people to act aggressively, while convincing themselves and some others that it's all for a moral purpose."

[mksioux]

This piece by Katherine Kersten in the Star Trib isn't related to the name controversy, but has a potentially relevant angle.

The City of Minneapolis is a prime example of what happens when the inmates run the asylum. Two council members and the mayor have all participated in this unlawful and childish protest. So there is no political will to stop this group's unlawful antics. So they continue to break the law with impunity. A majority of the motorists in downtown Minneapolis rush hour traffic (including me) live in the suburbs and have no political say in stopping this madness.

What these idiot protestors apparently don't realize is that their antics backfires and turns people off to their cause. Or maybe they do realize it and don't care, because as Ms. Kersten points out, they don't care about the cause as much calling attention to themselves.

I haven't seen enough nickname protests in order to draw a parallel. As far as I know, they haven't yet resorted to unlawful behavior. But if their numbers grow, you can bet their inhibitions will diminish and they will start to pull similar stunts.

[Diggler]

I'd get me a junker truck and plow through these gumbas.

[DamStrait]

I'd get me a junker truck and plow through these gumbas.

Army surplus deuce and a half

[happy]

That right Redwing77. We are not responsible for the Indian's condition. Indians ARE! It is about personal responsibility. The Irish people don't seem to be having any problems despite Notre Dame's nickname.

I am pretty sure that white people put the Indians on the reservations in the first place. If you can show me any reliable sources that show any other reason for Indians ending up on reservations than the U.S. government wanting their land, I will gladly look into it, but until then, I can safely say that, yes, white men forced these Indians onto the reservations, and are responsible for those conditions. I am sure that you yourself are not responsible, but surely, the Indians didn't chose to lose the Indian wars, get all their property stolen, and live in abject poverty on a reservation for generations. But, you can go ahead, and blame the victim if it makes you feel better.

[SiouxCrioux1]

I am pretty sure that white people put the Indians on the reservations in the first place. If you can show me any reliable sources that show any other reason for Indians ending up on reservations than the U.S. government wanting their land, I will gladly look into it, but until then, I can safely say that, yes, white men forced these Indians onto the reservations, and are responsible for those conditions. I am sure that you yourself are not responsible, but surely, the Indians didn't chose to lose the Indian wars, get all their property stolen, and live in abject poverty on a reservation for generations. But, you can go ahead, and blame the victim if it makes you feel better.

Last I checked indians dont have to live on reservations.

[redwing77]

Not to mention the last I checked, I'm not responsible for the actions of people who aren't related to me, I don't even know the names of, and are long since dead.

So why should I or UND for that matter, take responsibility for the conditions set upon the Native Americans by people unaffiliated with me or UND?

Somehow, dictating policy and pushing the majority around is the only way they see equitable solutions towards their problems. Like I said, it isn't just a Native American attitude, it is one of minorities. The system, they feel, has let them down. They feel abandoned or ignored. Well, maybe so. But bullying and pushing around the majority doesn't get you anywhere. It only brings about animosity and mistrust.

Native Americans, other minorities, and such have succeeded in the world. I believe some have even kept a hold on their culture to whatever extent they can manage while being successful. Do you know what that's called? It's called the "American Way."

Building consciousness into the "big picture" while not abandoning your culture is something many who feel slighted cannot seem to overcome. Why? There are too many reasons and variables. Some may have made bad decisions in their lives. Some may not have finished school for whatever reason. Some got addicted to some substance or another. Some may have found themselves vulnerable and in need of something to believe in so they adopt extremist behavior. They aren't bad people. They're just tragically placed in a world that isn't out there to dote on their every whim.

We aren't socialists. We aren't communists. We don't believe that all that belongs to the individual belongs to the people. There is no such social obligation that requires the majority to support the minority and vice versa. They feel that, since long ago they were put in reservations, that we have an obligation to support them while they shouldn't have to do anything in return. That is wrong. They are no longer required to live on reservations. They are given semi-autonomous governmental standing, including big time allowances on certain industries (enough where they hold virtual monopolies in some ways).

They feel that, since their ancestors were mistreated, they are entitled to be treated better than the rest. Well, I'll tell you, no one cares what your entitlement is. I feel entitled to many things, after all, my grandparents' families were decimated by the Nazis in the Holocaust, an act denied by the U.S. until late 1944 when U.S. troops stumbled upon a concentration camp. Does that mean I should get treated like a king or even at any superior position to that of the average German or Pole if I should move back to where my grandparents grew up? Should I be able to walk into the towns where Auschwitz or Ravensbruck or Dachau were located and take whatever I please and base it off of some sort of retribution I feel the Germans of those towns owe me for my "suffering?"

Or, since Americans of that time period ignored my grandparents and greatgrandparents' plight in Europe, perhaps I'm entitled to live better in the U.S. because of such anti-semitic stoicism?

What about the Chinese-Americans? Remember them? Used as basically slave labor, disposable labor even, to build the railroads in the 1800s. Do you see them complaining and saying how they're abused today?

The race card is ugly. VERY ugly. It is a true barrier towards equality. As long as people such as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson or Louis Farakhan and so on down the line are allowed to prey upon the conscience of good Americans who've done nothing to warrant such guilt, American society will truly remain segregated and conditions for the minorities will never truly improve.

Put the past in the past and look ahead to the future. Build a future that uses the past as motivation. "We were bad off back then. Now, we're going to change that." Get rid of corruption and segregationist attitudes. No more "The White Man is evil and cannot be trusted" mentality. Push yourself apart like that, you will always be seeing yourself as a "second-class citizen."

END RANT

[darell1976]

I think the first step to improve the Indian-non Indian relations should be to get rid of reservations all together. Reservations (as i remember from history class) was created to keep Indians on a certain piece of land and for them not to leave it, well i would think almost 200 years later they should be able to get rid of the reservations since they are free to roam around the country like everyone else. But why shouldn't we (the rest of the state) have the right to put casinos off of the rez?? Why should Indians ( i mean certain Indians) get the right to all that money that comes in. Thats why on the rez only a few have wealth while the rest of the tribe don't get sh-t from the casinos, where as if the casinos were owned by the state then the whole state prospers like the lottery. As for school nicknames why can Mandan and Belcourt be the Braves but UND can't be the Sioux. Is it because its not on a reservation?? All you hear is people are not mascots then why do native american schools have native american nicknames? If its wrong outside the rez why is it right on the rez? If they said fine all schools will not have Indian nicknames including native american schools then you will see protests. And they don't have to attend UND if they don't like it, there are other schools in the state and country they can go to for free or almost free, go there if you don't like the Sioux, but i think its mostly the people who just want their 15 minutes of fame doing the whooping and hallering. There are tribes in the state that are for the nickname like the Spirit Lake Sioux and the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewas, I say fine change the name from Fighting Sioux to Fighting Chippewas then see what happends.

[SiouxCrioux1]

What I dont get is why it is ok for some of the schools in the NCAA to have native american nicknames and some not. They have made it pretty clear that they will fight UND because a very small group of people dont agree. Yet there is no way you can tell me that NOBODY has a problem with the Florida State Seminoles. They are giving certain schools special treatment and their day will come in court. Plus I totally agree with Redwing77 that some not all of the Native American Community really need to put the past behind them and look to the future and try to better their community instead of blaming their problems on everyone else. Other races have had worse luck than them yet moved on and for the most part stopped pointing fingers. Pointing fingers will get you nowhere. I dont appreciate being told that I'm responsible for all Native American problems and such when I personally have done nothing to Native Americans (remember I'm stating this on some Native Americans not all). We all really need to stop this and look to a brighter future instead of pointing things that happened to distant distant ancesstors.

[Chewey]

What I dont get is why it is ok for some of the schools in the NCAA to have native american nicknames and some not. They have made it pretty clear that they will fight UND because a very small group of people dont agree. Yet there is no way you can tell me that NOBODY has a problem with the Florida State Seminoles. They are giving certain schools special treatment and their day will come in court. Plus I totally agree with Redwing77 that some not all of the Native American Community really need to put the past behind them and look to the future and try to better their community instead of blaming their problems on everyone else. Other races have had worse luck than them yet moved on and for the most part stopped pointing fingers. Pointing fingers will get you nowhere. I dont appreciate being told that I'm responsible for all Native American problems and such when I personally have done nothing to Native Americans (remember I'm stating this on some Native Americans not all). We all really need to stop this and look to a brighter future instead of pointing things that happened to distant distant ancesstors.

The Jews have been the most persecuted group in history and look how well they have done and continue to do. What's different between Jews and other minorities? Certainly other miniorities should have the capacity to do well despite previous harsh treatment. I suspect that religious/cultural cohesiveness and the ability not to fixate on previous wrongs are two big reasons why they've been so strong. They certainly don't forget the past wrongs but they have been able to set them aside and focus on moving forward.

[Chief Illiniwek Supporter]

http://www.startribune.com/191/story/1463278.html

In his psychological studies of '60s-style radicals, Lichter discovered two revealing things: They scored high on the power scale, exhibiting a strong need to feel powerful. They also scored high on narcissism -- the need to call attention to themselves, to get public notice. Not surprisingly, Lichter says, protesters often latched onto high-sounding motives to justify their self-absorbed actions. "You can't take expressions of love for humanity at face value," he explains. "They can serve as cover for aggressive feelings and tendencies." A phenomenon like Critical Mass "allows people to act aggressively, while convincing themselves and some others that it's all for a moral purpose."

We've got this group in Chicago too. Thankfully, we have more rail transit than most other cities; but trucking companies, bus drivers, etc. aren't happy about the disruption once a month.

So there is no political will to stop this group's unlawful antics. So they continue to break the law with impunity. A majority of the motorists in downtown Minneapolis rush hour traffic (including me) live in the suburbs and have no political say in stopping this madness.

In the short run, you're correct: you have no choice. In the long run, as many employees leave for the burbs and tell their bosses "listen, I've got one life on this earth: I want to get to my kid's Little League games, and I don't need to watch some barefoot clown ride a unicycle while blowing soap bubbles who thinks that by taking time out of

MY

schedule that

HE'S

personally responsible for saving the universe." As jobs move out, greedy politicians will realize that these leftover protestors of life in general don't pay taxes. When the raises for the police start lagging, their attitude will be a little less sanguine too. That's when things will change.

I've often wondered what the press will say when some 90 year-old dies because an ambulance couldn't get to her place in time because of the traffic tied up by naive dopes dressed up as sea turtles with no knowledge of what they're supposed to be protesting but a great deal of motivation to "get in on the party". Especially if said 90 year-old is the mayor's mother.

Side note: with all the emphasis on going green, did anyone else notice the headlines a few weeks ago saying that the emerging nations were telling the industrialized world "our economy first, then saving the environment"??

And a final note in response to the repetitive trolling: does anyone know how the Indians themselves are dealing with the consequences of the unknown number of centuries of "Indian-on-Indian" wars? I mean, what if 1000 years ago the Sioux ran the Utes (or whoever) off the Great Plains, forcing the Utes into generations of roaming infertile lands, eeking out a bare substanence in the infertile mountains and causing starvation on a massive scale??

I mean, if you want to blame the victim go ahead, but.... well, instead lets just continue to rely on guilt and the "known" (or guessed) actions of those evil European settlers. After all, the only ones to blame are those who built boats and sailed them to the Americas. If your race was here before written history then you're blameless and entitled to neverending victim status.