#8 vs #1

[SiouxMD]

THIS POLL IS FOR UND FANS ONLY

There has been an ongoing argument about the popularity of hockey versus basketball on a local, regional and national level. Does it really matter? UND is a hockey school and we should not expect non-hockey schools to understand our views and passion.

Detractors often state that the national exposure obtained by going to the "Big Dance" is more valuable than one or possibly seven DI Men's Hockey National Championships. They are entitled to their opinions. However, I have yet to see a school raise a "National Exposure" banner from the rafters.

I am curious...would UND fans be willing to give up Championship #8 for a trip to the "Big Dance"? How much would it take?

Remember...there can be no #9, #10, #11, etc without #8 (ie UND never wins another DI Hockey Championship in exchange for one of the above options).

THIS POLL IS FOR UND FANS ONLY

Edit: Something happened to the poll options...

[jimdahl]

Are "objective UND fans" allowed, or only fans who actually cheer for UND sports?

The way the question is constructed, I expect the outcomes to be heavily biased toward "take #8". My answer comes in 3 parts, each more insightful than the last.

1. It's fair to assume that within some medium-term period, UND will have acquired another hockey championship and have a trip to the NCAA basketball tournament (once a member of an autobid conference, it would take an extraordinary stretch of futility to never make it). Therefore, giving up all future college hockey championships for one such trip is a bad trade.

2. Further, it's reasonable to expect that UND will gain significantly more than 1 additional hockey championship in my lifetime. For the sake of this point, I'll assume that the exposure from a single trip to the basketball tournament provides more "exposure" than infinite trips to the hockey tournament (I'm not claiming this is true, just stipulating it for this paragraph's argument). It's not a good tradeoff for me, as a fan, to get the school the minimal "exposure" of a single eventually forgotten basketball tournament appearance than the lifetime of joy attending Frozen Fours and tracking each Sioux season, knowing there's a chance.

3. Finally, as to the question of "exposure", the exposure one gets from being a doormat (or even more unlikely, Cinderella) in the NCAA basketball tournament is name recognition. Great for a school like GMU to become on the "I've heard of them" radar of more people across the country. Unnecessary for a school like University of <state name>.

All that said, I've posted many times that a trip to the NCAA basketball tournament will be bigger for our basketball teams than a D-II championship, in terms of both excitement and a goal worth playing toward.

[SiouxMD]

Retry.

[UND92,96]

I'm going to be in a small minority here, but I'd take a first round NCAA basketball tournament win over another hockey title, due to the fact that such a win would almost certainly be against a 1 or 2 seed, which would be a huge deal. I'm not sure the publicity would result in many tangible benefits, but it would be one of those things that college basketball fans all over the country would probably never forget. Heck, I still know the name "Chaminade" based on them winning a completely insignificant holiday tournament game against then-number one Virginia nearly 25 years ago. That kind of attention would be magnified many times over if that sort of upset happened in the Big Dance, in front of a massive national tv audience.

[nodakvindy]

I was a little greedier, trading for an Elite 8 win and a trip to the Final Four. Such a tourney run keeps your school in the headlines for almost a month and is nearly as good as winning the tournament. And for UND it would likely mean additional exposure for Hockey, as announcers would be saying stuff like "while this is a Cinderella run for the North Dakota basketball team, they are the North Carolina of college hockey." There would almost certainly also be tons of references to Phil Jackson.

George Mason's Final Four run brought benefits not only in terms of exposure, but in an increase in number and quality of applicants. While I'm sure that will have some diminishing returns it will last for a while.

[bincitysioux]

.......... but just to make my point perfectly clear for the sake of discussion... even if UND were to someday win a national championship in D1 basketball my attitude would be "good for them, but I'm much more interested in the hockey team.

You've made your point perfectly clear on countless occasions, Dave.

[Bigdog42]

Well I hate to burst all the hockey and football fans out there but ONE Mens College basketball trip to the Big Dance would generate more PR in the sports world than 2 football national titles and 3 hockey titles because College BB is that much more popular overall. This is also coming from a guy who played FB at UND and is married to someone who won 2 national titles in women's bb.

[SiouxMD]

Well I hate to burst all the hockey and football fans out there but ONE Mens College basketball trip to the Big Dance would generate more PR in the sports world than 2 football national titles and 3 hockey titles because College BB is that much more popular overall. This is also coming from a guy who played FB at UND and is married to someone who won 2 national titles in women's bb.

I don't disagree that basketball is more popular than hockey (let it be DaveK). My question is which is more important to you (the UND fan)...National Championships or National Exposure?

Would you rather see people wearing Fighting Sioux t-shirts in Texas or South Carolina who had never been to North Dakota simply because UND is nationally known (like the Ohio State) or would prefer to keep winning more National Championships in hockey?

In real life these scenarios are not exclusive of one another but for the sake of arguement...which would you choose?

[Bigdog42]

I know exactly what you are saying SiouxMD but with M BB producing fans all over the country with a trip to the big dance, in-turn would help the popularity of the other sports and their fan base. As by my previous statements I have made, my choice was a trip to the big dance. Just think if we had a team make the field of 64 and then win the NT in hockey within a month of each other. I guarantee you it would generate a lot more popularity amongst all the sports at UND and a huge buzz in the region for a few years.

[GeauxSioux]

But, SiouxMD is allowing for a choice between the "Big Dance" or winning #8 in hockey.

I am curious...would UND fans be willing to give up Championship #8 for a trip to the "Big Dance"? How much would it take?

Remember...there can be no #9, #10, #11, etc without #8 (ie UND never wins another DI Hockey Championship in exchange for one of the above options).

If given the choice between an appearance at the Big Dance and #8 in hockey, I would have to choose hockey, because after #8 comes the 9,10, 11 ....

UND will never win the NC in MBB. It isn't out of the realm of possibilities for an appearance at the Big Dance, but that is not worth a NC in hockey to me.

[SiouxMD]

I know exactly what you are saying SiouxMD but with M BB producing fans all over the country with a trip to the big dance, in-turn would help the popularity of the other sports and their fan base. As by my previous statements I have made, my choice was a trip to the big dance. Just think if we had a team make the field of 64 and then win the NT in hockey within a month of each other. I guarantee you it would generate a lot more popularity amongst all the sports at UND and a huge buzz in the region for a few years.

Would you rather be Dan Marino or Jeff Bostic?

[nodakvindy]

I guess I missed the last section when I first read this, as I thought I only had to give up a single championship. There is no way I would endure a Chicago Cub like pergatory even for a National Championship in hoops.

[wcbsas]

This is why UND will NEVER amount to anything in basketball.

[UND92,96]

This is why UND will NEVER amount to anything in basketball.

I'm not really sure what you mean. Having a wildly popular number one sport doesn't preclude success in other major sports. And the fact of the matter is that UND has already amounted to something in basketball (I'm assuming you're only referring to men's basketball for the purposes of your post). In fact, I don't believe any school in the north central region has more region titles than UND. The existence of hockey at UND doesn't adversely affect basketball at all as far as I can see.

[nodakvindy]

This is why UND will NEVER amount to anything in basketball.

I think that assuming people don't like college basketball or Sioux basketball because they won't forfeit the future success of hockey is incorrect. I'd wonder how people would respond on a Winona message board if the question was posed similarly, but giving up football success for continued basketball titles.

[HockeyMom]

I voted for not trading anything for #8. Sioux hockey means too much to me to vote any other way. Yes, I am a fan of all UND athletics, but I just don't love the men's basketball team the same way that I love the hockey team. Or the tennis team the same way that I love the football team.

Hockey is my favorite sport-to play and to watch, so I'll always be biased towards the team.

[SiouxMD]

BTW...the madness starts today.

[The Sicatoka]

This is why UND will NEVER amount to anything in basketball.

The U of Florida is a football school. It's the first love of those fans.

But does this sentence make sense?

"This is why Florida will NEVER amount to anything in basketball."

Florida: 2006 NCAA DI Mens Basketball Champions.

[GeauxSioux]

The U of Florida is a football school. It's the first love of those fans.

But does this sentence make sense?

"This is why Florida will NEVER amount to anything in basketball."

Florida: 2006 NCAA DI Mens Basketball Champions.

and 2007 NCAA DI Mens Basketball Champions

[UND92,96]

The U of Florida is a football school. It's the first love of those fans.

But does this sentence make sense?

"This is why Florida will NEVER amount to anything in basketball."

Florida: 2006 NCAA DI Mens Basketball Champions.

I was thinking of the Florida example, also. To look at things another way, if having a very popular hockey program is truly a detriment to basketball, shouldn't that have been a major advantage for NDSU over UND in terms of men's basketball? The Bison never won a single region title as a dII school, whereas UND has won eight.

[PCM]

I was thinking of the Florida example, also. To look at things another way, if having a very popular hockey program is truly a detriment to basketball, shouldn't that have been a major advantage for NDSU over UND in terms of men's basketball?

Those who listened Gene Roebcuck on the Fighting Sioux Coaches' Show last night heard him explain how he intends to use UND hockey to his advantage in bringing in DI recruits. There's probably no reason the same strategy couldn't work for men's basketball as well.

[wcbsas]

The U of Florida is a football school. It's the first love of those fans.

But does this sentence make sense?

"This is why Florida will NEVER amount to anything in basketball."

Florida: 2006 NCAA DI Mens Basketball Champions.

Seriously ... can you name ANY school that has multiple SAME-SEASON sports that are both succesful on the field?

The Florida comparison is two different seasons.

There is no doubt a successful basketball team would put more fans in the stands but at UND history, legacy and fan following is truly behind hockey much like Football is at Nebraska.

[UND92,96]

Seriously ... can you name ANY school that has multiple SAME-SEASON sports that are both succesful on the field?

The Florida comparison is two different seasons.

There is no doubt a successful basketball team would put more fans in the stands but at UND history, legacy and fan following is truly behind hockey much like Football is at Nebraska.

I'm not comparing UND to these schools in terms of basketball, obviously, but how about Michigan, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Boston College and even, every once in a great, great while, Minnesota. And if we want to include dII schools, there are several more who have enjoyed success in both hockey and men's basketball, such as St. Cloud St., UNO and UMD. And of course, as mentioned, UND has enjoyed success in both sports in the past, and probably will again at some point in the future.

[The Sicatoka]

Seriously ... can you name ANY school that has multiple SAME-SEASON sports that are both succesful on the field?

UConn MBB and WBB won titles the same season.

Wisconsin MH and WH won titles the same season (2006).

Minnesota hockey and wrestling and WBB?

Iowa basketball and wrestling?

UCLA 2006 mens soccer (#2) and womens volleyball (#3)? Did they play FB last fall?

[SiouxMD]

Where do you think Davidson (#13, 29-5) will hang their "National Exposure" banner?