Basketball Attendance

[star2city]

This year thought both NDSU's men (especially after Wisconsin and Marquette) and SDSU's women (which has consistently beat schools from power conferences) would have very stellar attendance relative to UND's program. Both NDSU and SDSU have much more attractive home schedules than they've had in the past. One would think both schools would be drawing very well. The season-to-date numbers don't indicate any substantial basketball upsurge relative to UND.

Men's Basketball - average attendance

NDSU 2617

UND 2048

SDSU 1780

If NDSU had not had a home game against Kansas State with 6000+ in attendance, UND and NDSU attendance would be very close.

Women's BB- average attendance

SDSU 2163

UND 1939

NDSU 1446

SDSU has had two big home draws with Southern Cal and Marquette. Without those two games, UND would easily be leading in attendance. NDSU has had one big draw: Minnesota. Without that game, UND attendance is practically double that of NDSU's.

Total Attendance (when UND has men's/women's doubleheader, only second game attendance counted)

NDSU 31,068

UND 27,975

SDSU 26,206

Without NDSU's games against Kansas State/Minnesota and SDSU's games with USC/Marquette, UND would easily be the attendance leader.

It seems the lure of bigger name DI teams is what really only brings out fans at NDSU / SDSU. Will NDSU and SDSU's attendance improve next year when they have a MidContinent home schedule? Arguably, both schools have more interesting home schedules this year than they will have next.

[The Walrus]

Our attendance is sure to rise thru the roof now that they put those 40 chairs right in front of my sight line to the court.....

College educated administrators at thier best....?

[SiouxMeNow]

Our attendance is sure to rise thru the roof now that they put those 40 chairs right in front of my sight line to the court.....

College educated administrators at thier best....?

I NOTICED THAT!...right on the court line too...seems a little dangerous if someone goes crashing out of bounds. I feel your pain Walrus but I guess you gotta blame "Bottom Line" Buning. Maybe you can get a comp for a free beverage in the lounge upstairs?

[The Walrus]

I emailed the "Higher Ups" and told them of my dis- pleasure...We will see where that goes...?

You are right about the Handicap seating some of those people can not protect themselfs from a flying Basketball , let alone a flying Player..? and it was real nice to block their view entirely with the chairs in front.

I'm missing something here when people out of no-where get a chair right in front of paying FSC members ??

It seems to be all about the Benjamins.....My 20 plus years of giving must not be enough..?

[Stromer]

My eyes must be deceived by those numbers!? I wonder what the bison fans will say about this?

[FargoBison]

My eyes must be deceived by those numbers!? I wonder what the bison fans will say about this?

Mary

Mayville St

SMSU

VCSU

Fans don't want to see those games(Going DI didn't change that fact), so it's not a suprise at all that attendance is that low. Playing UW-GB and Furman during Thanksgiving break didn't help matters much either but I guess that 6000 number for K-State helps even that effect out. As for next year the schedule is much better, the Mid-Con will give us something to play for and Colorado St will provide another major conference opponent.

[Bison Dan]

My eyes must be deceived by those numbers!? I wonder what the bison fans will say about this?

We'll see how the Sioux do when they have a full DI independence schedule.

[bincitysioux]

We'll see how the Sioux do when they have a full DI independence schedule.

Conference affiliation is paramount when it comes to basketball attendance. UND averaged just 1800 for the non-conference portion of their schedule and are averaging 2,542 over their 3 confernce games so far. NDSU basketball attendance will like rise next year when they play a Mid-Con schedule and are in the race for a regular season conference title and as fans become more familiar with those schools, attendance will gradually increase over the coming years. The same will also be true of UND. Look for a very crummy schedule the first few years of the transition and a drop in attendance. It will go up again when we get into the Big Sky.

[sultan]

Sioux fans will be a lot more honest and realistic about what is going to happen in DI basketball than Bison fans are. Bison fans want everyone to believe that the excitement in Fargo for DI basketball is bursting at the seams. The reality is that if they are excited they apparently aren't excited enough to buy a ticket and go to the games. The bottom line is that when you play a full fledged DI basketball schedule you better win or the only games people will come to are the marque games . Marque games in Fargo aren't going to happen as often Bison fans think. There can be a lot of poorly attended games between big games. The Bison women must be a setting some attendance records this year though. That is, attendance records for some of the poorest attended games in recent memory. I must admit when I hear the NDSU commercials for basketball home games and they say BIG GAMES BIG NAMES and than the next day I see the attendance is any where from 600 to 1600, I do have to chuckle. Boy have they wasted a lot of advertising money in Fargo this year.

[GeauxSioux]

This discussion reminds of how UND got blasted for such low attendance for the Winona state playoff game. UND had already played and beaten Winona quite handily, so many folks just didn't have an interest in going to the game. Same can be said for some of the opponents that NDSU has had to schedule this year in basketball. People don't come in droves to see Mayville State or Valley City.

When both schools have finished the transition things will get back to just how they were in the NCC, but with elevated figures due to the higher quality opponents. By back to how they were in the NCC, I mean that NDSU will have higher attendance number for football and UND will have slightly higher figures for MBB and WBB. The thing that NDSU cannot emulate is the attendance that UND consistantly has for hockey.

[Bison Dan]

This discussion reminds of how UND got blasted for such low attendance for the Winona state playoff game. UND had already played and beaten Winona quite handily, so many folks just didn't have an interest in going to the game. Same can be said for some of the opponents that NDSU has had to schedule this year in basketball. People don't come in droves to see Mayville State or Valley City.

When both schools have finished the transition things will get back to just how they were in the NCC, but with elevated figures due to the higher quality opponents. By back to how they were in the NCC, I mean that NDSU will have higher attendance number for football and UND will have slightly higher figures for MBB and WBB. The thing that NDSU cannot emulate is the attendance that UND consistantly has for hockey.

You forget that if a new venue is built next to the dome it will have a huge impact on bb attendance.

[star2city]

Mary

Mayville St

SMSU

VCSU

Fans don't want to see those games(Going DI didn't change that fact), so it's not a suprise at all that attendance is that low.

UND's non-conference schedule also was full of NSIC and DAC teams.

Playing UW-GB and Furman during Thanksgiving break didn't help matters much either but I guess that 6000 number for K-State helps even that effect out. As for next year the schedule is much better, the Mid-Con will give us something to play for and Colorado St will provide another major conference opponent.

NDSU men should be very competitive the next two years, but playing Centenary, Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW, Southern Utah, and Western Illinois won't exactly get people lining up to buy tickets. SDSU had some decent mid-major teams that are a notch higher caliber, Montana St, Central Florida, Utah State, and Arkansas State, and yet those teams didn't draw.

As much as the capacity of the Betty has been criticized, it will serve the transition well. At NDSU and SDSU, there was no incentive to buy season tickets because seats are readily available. At UND with the Betty, season tickets purchases are more likely to continue due to the limited seating.

[star2city]

You forget that if a new venue is built next to the dome it will have a huge impact on bb attendance.

Agreed for a year or two while people are interesting in checking out the new building, especially with the poor amenities and seating at the BSA.

[proudsioux]

do u have a link to the new bison stadium? i want to see what it looks liek and the specs of it.

[Hammersmith]

I think the return of the doubleheader next year will be a big benefit to NDSU and SDSU. Last year we had just two, and this year we had none. Next year we will have the opportunity for 5(if the AD chooses to schedule them that way). In contrast, the NCC schedule has allowed UND to have 9 doubleheaders this year and 11 last year.

The regularity of the Mid-Con schedule will also help attendance. Currently, games are played on an almost random day of the week making it hard for fans to work the games into their weekly schedules. The Mid-Con plays men's games on Thursday and Saturday and women's games on Saturday and Monday. The Saturday games can either be scheduled as a doubleheader or an afternoon/evening. That kind of regularity should help attendance somewhat. I'm not saying our average attendence will double overnight or anything, but I do expect a 25-75% increase over this year's numbers. Also, if we win the regular-season championship, that should guarantee a NIT berth. Games that have post-season implications typically draw better.

I look at it this way: NDSU currently has a crappy facility, little tradition(men's), a struggling women's team, no conference, no post-season hopes, an irregular schedule, no doubleheaders, and lackluster home opponents(exceptions: Kansas St & Minnesota). With all that against us, we're still drawing almost 2500/1500 a game(Star's numbers are wrong/old). We're currently building tradition and a better women's team, next year we'll have a conference, post-season hopes, a regular schedule and five doubleheaders, the schedule will be a little better, and we may have a new home soon. By the 2008-2009 season, I expect averages of 4k/3k and 5-5.5k/4k for the first year in a new arena(if it happens).

As for UND, it all depends on the quality of your teams during the transition. If things stay as they are, the men's attendance will take a big hit once the doubleheaders disappear, and women's will take a smaller hit, but should stay in the same ballpark. If the men's team takes off, or the women's team falters, all bets are off.

[Bison Dan]

I think the return of the doubleheader next year will be a big benefit to NDSU and SDSU. Last year we had just two, and this year we had none. Next year we will have the opportunity for 5(if the AD chooses to schedule them that way). In contrast, the NCC schedule has allowed UND to have 9 doubleheaders this year and 11 last year.

The regularity of the Mid-Con schedule will also help attendance. Currently, games are played on an almost random day of the week making it hard for fans to work the games into their weekly schedules. The Mid-Con plays men's games on Thursday and Saturday and women's games on Saturday and Monday. The Saturday games can either be scheduled as a doubleheader or an afternoon/evening. That kind of regularity should help attendance somewhat. I'm not saying our average attendence will double overnight or anything, but I do expect a 25-75% increase over this year's numbers. Also, if we win the regular-season championship, that should guarantee a NIT berth. Games that have post-season implications typically draw better.

I look at it this way: NDSU currently has a crappy facility, little tradition(men's), a struggling women's team, no conference, no post-season hopes, an irregular schedule, no doubleheaders, and lackluster home opponents(exceptions: Kansas St & Minnesota). With all that against us, we're still drawing almost 2500/1500 a game(Star's numbers are wrong/old). We're currently building tradition and a better women's team, next year we'll have a conference, post-season hopes, a regular schedule and five doubleheaders, the schedule will be a little better, and we may have a new home soon. By the 2008-2009 season, I expect averages of 4k/3k and 5-5.5k/4k for the first year in a new arena(if it happens).

As for UND, it all depends on the quality of your teams during the transition. If things stay as they are, the men's attendance will take a big hit once the doubleheaders disappear, and women's will take a smaller hit, but should stay in the same ballpark. If the men's team takes off, or the women's team falters, all bets are off.

You forgot the best part, NDSU has nowhere to go but up and UND, well starting a DI independent schedule it will be down for a few years.

[Hammersmith]

do u have a link to the new bison stadium? i want to see what it looks liek and the specs of it.

It's still in the earliest planning stages and nothing is certain yet. If it happens(and that's still a big if), it should seat between 6000 to 8000 and it will adjoin the Fargodome on its west side. The very tentative money figures are a $30-45M facility with $10-15M coming from the excess Fargodome sales tax, $10-15M from NDSU, and $10-15M from naming rights/outside monies. An architect is being hired to put together some rough proposals to see what could be built at the different price points. We probably won't get to see any drawings until late-spring/early-summer.

[GeauxSioux]

It's still in the earliest planning stages and nothing is certain yet. If it happens(and that's still a big if), it should seat between 6000 to 8000 and it will adjoin the Fargodome on its west side. The very tentative money figures are a $30-45M facility with $10-15M coming from the excess Fargodome sales tax, $10-15M from NDSU, and $10-15M from naming rights/outside monies. An architect is being hired to put together some rough proposals to see what could be built at the different price points. We probably won't get to see any drawings until late-spring/early-summer.

Hammersmith, you seem to be quite involved at NDSU and Fago in general, I posed this question on another thread, but didn't receive any answers. Any thoughts? Also, I find it interesting that the Forum always many topics for readers to comment on, but the issue of a new arena attached to the Fargodome isn't there. Is that because the Forum doesn't want dissension on the issue or because there may be a question of whether or not Dome tax money can be used for the arena?

[Bison Dan]

Hammersmith, you seem to be quite involved at NDSU and Fago in general, I posed this question on another thread, but didn't receive any answers. Any thoughts? Also, I find it interesting that the Forum always many topics for readers to comment on, but the issue of a new arena attached to the Fargodome isn't there. Is that because the Forum doesn't want dissension on the issue or because there may be a question of whether or not Dome tax money can be used for the arena?

Excess dome tax monies have to be used for the dome period. The dome has already expanded twice since it was build and this wouldn't be any different. IF the money is there and approved by the dome & city comm. the addition may be build. This new addition would give the dome an intermediate venue for smaller events and thus more event days. It gives NDSU a new bb arena that they will be paying 1/3 or more for. If the stars all line up it would be a win-win situation for both.

[NDSU grad]

I'm pretty sure the Forum had an online discussion for it about a month ago. It received quite a few replies, but you probably can't access it anymore.

[Hammersmith]

Hammersmith, you seem to be quite involved at NDSU and Fago in general, I posed this question on another thread, but didn't receive any answers. Any thoughts? Also, I find it interesting that the Forum always many topics for readers to comment on, but the issue of a new arena attached to the Fargodome isn't there. Is that because the Forum doesn't want dissension on the issue or because there may be a question of whether or not Dome tax money can be used for the arena?

I don't think there's any legal question about using the dome tax money for an attached basketball arena. Those issues would have been worked out when some of that money was used for the east side lobby/conference room addition. Sorry, but I think that dog won't hunt.

Regarding the Forum's website, I think there was one about the arena when it was first proposed, but I'm not 100% sure. If there was one, it probably aged out; the Forum only keeps the most recent discussions. I would hope that when the next decision comes up, a new topic is started. Right now, we're in a lull with little real information, so a discussion doesn't mean much for now.

The arena timeline looks something like this:

Now: There is a survey currently going on to study the maintenance costs of the dome over the next 15-20 years.

Very Soon: An architect will be hired to put together some rough proposals to determine approximate costs for the new arena options.

Mid-2007: Once the maintenance report comes back, the FD Authority will know how much money needs to be saved from the tax proceeds for future maintenance.

Mid-2007: The architect's report will come in and the Authority will learn how much money the arena will cost.

Sometime in 2008: The final figures from the tax will come in and the Authority will know how much money they have to work with.

During this period, NDSU will approach its donors to learn how much money they can expect to raise.

During this period, city leaders will contact local businesses to determine if anyone will buy the naming rights and for how much.

Once all this information is collected, the final decisions can be made.

There are many points in the future where discussion will flare up and people will get to have their say. The next one will be when the maintenance report comes back and we have some hard figures to work with rather than the boatload of variables we have now.

[GeauxSioux]

Excess dome tax monies have to be used for the dome period. The dome has already expanded twice since it was build and this wouldn't be any different. IF the money is there and approved by the dome & city comm. the addition may be build. This new addition would give the dome an intermediate venue for smaller events and thus more event days. It gives NDSU a new bb arena that they will be paying 1/3 or more for. If the stars all line up it would be a win-win situation for both.

I understand that in the by-laws the taxes must be used for the Fargodome, but my question is in the following paragraph

B. FargoDome Sales Tax Surplus Fund - All proceeds from the sales and use tax

which are not placed in the FargoDome Debt Service and Reserve Fund as

hereinabove provided shall be placed in this fund to be utilized for

construction, operation, and maintenance of the FargoDome. Use of such

funds by the Fargo Dome Authority shall be subject to approval of the board

of city commissioners of the city of Fargo.

Is the construction mentioned in this paragraph the original construction or construction in general? I would think that it were meant to cover future construction it would have been stated as such. I don't think that you could add on an arena and call it operations and maintenance. You mention that the dome has already expanded twice. Were these actual expansions or were they items such as vestibules and interior renovations, which could be operations and maintenance items? I have never been in the Fargodome and know very little about the place, but I am in construction and know how sticky contractual language can get.

I didn't see it make the Forum's "Talk About it Section", but I don't visit the site every day and could have missed it.

[Hammersmith]

The east side addition was pretty significant. It included a new, large lobby on the first floor and a set of meeting rooms and offices on the second.

[GeauxSioux]

The east side addition was pretty significant. It included a new, large lobby on the first floor and a set of meeting rooms and offices on the second.

From the sounds of it, this bridge has been crossed before without incident. Thanks for the input.

[Riverman]

You forgot the best part, NDSU has nowhere to go but up and UND, well starting a DI independent schedule it will be down for a few years.

Oh lord, it's hard to be humble.....

You know the rest of the song right?