What happens if...

[siouxnanigans]

I'm new to the board and i'm guessing that it's been discussed before....but what happens to the Great West if NDSU and SDSU get admitted into the Gateway. I read on the Forum website tonight that Chapman and Taylor (along with the SDSU President/AD) have been invited to attend the Gateway meeting in St. Louis on February 19th. In the article it said that there have NEVER been presidents/AD's invited to a meeting such as this before. I am taking that to mean that they must be VERY interested in finding out more about those two schools.

So if/when NDSU and SDSU are admitted into the Gateway, the Great West will drop down to 3 schools (5 if you count UND and USD). What does this do to UND and it's chances of getting into the playoffs? Who else would the Great West pick up to even become eligible to get an auto bid.... Would it even be likely for the Great West to get one of these ever??? All pretty interesting thoughts.

Does UND have anywhere else (besides the Great West) to turn. I'm not one of those who believes that the BSC will expand to the Dakotas. If they don't are there other options?

[dakotadan]

The GWFC commissioner has said that an announcement about conference expansion could come as soon as this January. Most people believe that the University of San Diego, who is currently DI FCS non-scholarship, will move to the GWFC and begin adding scholarships.

Some also believe that Sacramento State (CSU-Sacramento) will try to get into the Big West conference, an all California school bus conference that includes UC-Davis and Cal-Poly, and move it's FB to the GWFC. However, this is alot less likely.

There is also a very slim chance that this could just be an announcement that UND and USD will be joining the conference in '08 or more likely '09.

Hopefully the announcement will come out soon. I think that the GWFC will try to make any expansion announcements before the Gateway meetings to try and give the 'SUs a little bit more reason to stay.

[Hawkster]

I would say the SU's will go to the Gateway if asked, and I'd say it's highly probable they will be asked to join. As to the Great West, I guess UND/USD will again make it a 5 team conference and that's where it will stay in the short run.

UND doesn't have to worry about an auto bid for the playoffs, since they will be ineligable anyway for 5 years. By then, the bigger question will be, who is left in the Great West? The California schools could find something out on the coast, and that could be the end of the Great West.

I can't imagine the SU's wanting to stay in the Great West even if they do expand. the Gateway is just too tempting. It's where they do their recruiting, and it's closer then going to California, plus they have the auto bid.

The biggest mistake made was by UND/USD in not pushing to move the entire NCC up to D1 when the SU's wanted to do it. Had they done it then, all schools would be eligible for an auto bid in a year and a half. I have a feeling UND will pay dearly for that decision.

[MplsBison]

Even if they had pushed, at most only the Dakota 4 and No. CO would've gone DI. The MN schools and Augi can't afford it.

UNC probably still would've moved to the Big Sky which leaves the Dakota 4, which I think will end up together anyway.

Hopefully in an all sports conference (either Mid Con or Mizzou Valley).

[UND92,96]

Even if they had pushed, at most only the Dakota 4 and No. CO would've gone DI. The MN schools and Augi can't afford it.

UNC probably still would've moved to the Big Sky which leaves the Dakota 4, which I think will end up together anyway.

Hopefully in an all sports conference (either Mid Con or Mizzou Valley).

You are correct. It never ceases to amaze me that people continue to play the "what if" game with regard to a dI NCC. It was never going to be a long-term solution, unless a four or five team "conference" with no autobid is appealing.

[The Sicatoka]

The biggest mistake made was by UND/USD in not pushing to move the entire NCC up to D1 when the SU's wanted to do it.

There's wanting to do it.

There's the capability to do it.

Wishing doesn't create the capability.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I didn't really like the idea of a DI NCC. I wanted to be done with games against Mankato, SCSU, etc. As for UND, it is just going to take time. No conference will give you a hard look until you are close to eligibility, except for the Great West. And the Great West isn't bad for a start. The Cali schools are great to be aligned with.

If the xDSUs are offered a spot in the Gateway, they have to say yes. The autobid is too important as is the scheduling aspect that will assure great teams traveling to Fargo for home games. Who knows what the Gateway will do. They certaintly do not have to take anyone at this time.

I have said it before.....no one knows what the conference situation will look like in 5 years. That is what will ultimately determing where UND goes.

[Hawkster]

I didn't really like the idea of a DI NCC. I wanted to be done with games against Mankato, SCSU, etc. As for UND, it is just going to take time. No conference will give you a hard look until you are close to eligibility, except for the Great West. And the Great West isn't bad for a start. The Cali schools are great to be aligned with.

If the xDSUs are offered a spot in the Gateway, they have to say yes. The autobid is too important as is the scheduling aspect that will assure great teams traveling to Fargo for home games. Who knows what the Gateway will do. They certaintly do not have to take anyone at this time.

I have said it before.....no one knows what the conference situation will look like in 5 years. That is what will ultimately determing where UND goes.

When I thought the NCC should move up, I was thinking about the 4 Dakota schools, Northern Colorado, and UNO. I think UNO made a mistake going to BSC, look what's happening to them. It's not all the fault of the BSC, but it sure didn't help them either. A college the size of UNO in a city the size of Omaha certainly can support a D1 team. but then, it's all water over the dam.

[MplsBison]

The only thing that UNO has to hang its hat on is the hockey team. And that's already DI.

Crieghton has big attendance at the Qwest center for bball and obviously no one in the state gets attention for football like Big Red does.

[Matt]

You are correct. It never ceases to amaze me that people continue to play the "what if" game with regard to a dI NCC. It was never going to be a long-term solution, unless a four or five team "conference" with no autobid is appealing.

Support for such a move would also have been necessary from the NCC commish in order to be persuasive with the league presidents. Anyone recall Roger Thomas' thoughts on moving to I-AA? I'm not sure he was selling the league presidents on that idea when the SU's were leaving.

[johnnyroyale]

Support for such a move would also have been necessary from the NCC commish in order to be persuasive with the league presidents. Anyone recall Roger Thomas' thoughts on moving to I-AA? I'm not sure he was selling the league presidents on that idea when the SU's were leaving.

Things have obviously changed since Roger Thomas was badmouthing a NCC DI move. NDSU & SDSU are two good examples of how to move up to DI. Northern Colorado is a bad example of how to move to DI. Underfunded with no vision=recipe for a DI disaster. It looks like the XDSU's will move into the Gateway for FB. With the Mid-Con alignment and the Western Wrestling Conference it looks like things are lining up for the SU's. UND and USD will have to forge their own collective DI independent pathways and cross their fingers for the next 5+ yrs. Sorry, but that's how it goes. NDSU and SDSU are one year away from reaping the benefits of moving early.

[Matt]

Things have obviously changed since Roger Thomas was badmouthing a NCC DI move. NDSU & SDSU are two good examples of how to move up to DI. Northern Colorado is a bad example of how to move to DI. Underfunded with no vision=recipe for a DI disaster. It looks like the XDSU's will move into the Gateway for FB. With the Mid-Con alignment and the Western Wrestling Conference it looks like things are lining up for the SU's. UND and USD will have to forge their own collective DI independent pathways and cross their fingers for the next 5+ yrs. Sorry, but that's how it goes. NDSU and SDSU are one year away from reaping the benefits of moving early.

Even if things go south for the Great West if the SU's leave for the Gateway, why can't a UND/USD combination find similar success in forging their own conference ties for independents like the SU's were able to? Don't forget, the Great West didn't exist prior to the SU's move up. The Great West has served the purpose it was supposed to. I think the U's will be able to do the same until they find a more permanent home.

[GeauxSioux]

Even if things go south for the Great West if the SU's leave for the Gateway, why can't a UND/USD combination find similar success in forging their own conference ties for independents like the SU's were able to? Don't forget, the Great West didn't exist prior to the SU's move up. The Great West has served the purpose it was supposed to. I think the U's will be able to do the same until they find a more permanent home.

NO! The Sioux must languish in pergatory! This is the mantra that you must learn from the NDSU fans.

[NDSUFREAK10]

Even if things go south for the Great West if the SU's leave for the Gateway, why can't a UND/USD combination find similar success in forging their own conference ties for independents like the SU's were able to? Don't forget, the Great West didn't exist prior to the SU's move up. The Great West has served the purpose it was supposed to. I think the U's will be able to do the same until they find a more permanent home.

Any idea of what teams would be in that conference?

[SiouxMeNow]

here's the REAL question...did you take that crappy, soft focus, shadowed bison photo you use?

[Hammersmith]

There are a lot of comments in this thread that I'd like to respond to, but I don't want to create a whole string of messages or a long nested post. Instead, I'll break things down into sections and I hope you'll be able to tell who I'm responding to.

1. I don't believe RT was the NCC's commissioner when the SU's and UNC made their decisions. I believe he was still the UND AD and advised CK to keep UND DII.

2. Had UND supported a DI NCC back in 2002, I think there was a good chance that UNO, SCSU and, maybe, Mankato might have been persuaded to move. A conference of 7 or 8 members would have kept travel costs down and provided half-completed schedules before the first phone call. Add in a couple of local DII games and you'd have quick, cheap schedules. Whether that would have kept the NCC alive forever is open to debate, but I think it would have kept it around at least a littte longer than what has happened in reality.

3. As a Bison fan, I'm glad now that what I wrote above never happened. The lack of a DI NCC forced NDSU to make some uncomfortable choices that have benefited us greatly.

4. Why can't the U's have the same success as the SU's? They might. The problem is the difference between skill and opportunity. UND can control the former but not the latter. No one could confidently predict four years ago that Chicago State would choose to go independent the same year that Valpo would join the Horizon, or that WKU would go FBS just as a 12-game season became possible. If UND had gone DI with the SU's, they could have taken advantage of these opportunities. Might there be a new set of opportunities in four years for the U's? Yes, but there are no guarantees. You can't control when or if these opportunities happen and you can't take advantage of them once they've passed. I've always liked the saying: "Fortune favors the bold." NDSU was bold and Fortune smiled down on us. UND was initially timid and we have yet to see what Fate has in store for you/them.

5. The GWFC won't fold if the SU's leave. The GWFC could add the U's in 2008 if absolutely necessary. You would be strongly encouraged to schedule at least three other DI teams so that you would count as a DI to UC Davis and Cal Poly, but they would let you in to keep the conference alive. No autobid until 2014 at the earliest.

[Matt]

NO! The Sioux must languish in pergatory! This is the mantra that you must learn from the NDSU fans.

I always love that one.

[Matt]

Any idea of what teams would be in that conference?

Even speculating now is pointless because the available teams will likely be differernt if/when the SU's leave.

[The Sicatoka]

1. I don't believe RT was the NCC's commissioner when the SU's and UNC made their decisions.

C'mon Hammer, don't confuse a good rant from some quarters with facts. :lol:

[Matt]

C'mon Hammer, don't confuse a good rant from some quarters with facts. :lol:

As Steve Martin used to say...WELL EXCUUUSE...MEEEEEEEE!!!!

I'll revise my statement and keep the sentiment. Roger Thomas became commission in Jan of 2005, but my point is the same. With the UND AD and President opposing a move (those views are well documented in many media sources), it's difficult to see how the entire league would have favored a move up, either before Roger Thomas became the commissioner or after.

My initial post lacked the emotion which I think is necessary for a rant, but this one deserves that label, Sicatoka.

[Riverman]

The only thing that UNO has to hang its hat on is the hockey team. And that's already DI.

Nice to see others think hockey is something to hang your hat on.

MplsBison, Come into the light... Feel it's warmth surround you... UND is not evil....