USD and Augustana to DI highly likely

[dakotadan]

If USD was on such good terms with NDSU then why didn't they play us in ANY events in 2004/5?

The playoff implications that this could have had on UND and USD in the major sports are pretty well documented. However, I am disappointed that the 4 Dakota schools didn't continue to play in some of the sports such as baseball, softball, soccer, volleyball etc.

[Matt]

If USD was on such good terms with NDSU then why didn't they play us in ANY events in 2004/5?

That is an extraordinarily weak gauge of if any school is on "good terms" with another.

[aff]

That is an extraordinarily weak gauge of if any school is on "good terms" with another.

Please, USD hasn't played NDSU in any sporting event for almost 5 years, and some of you want to say that USD is on good terms with either of the SU's? I've always thought that you find out who your true friends are when you see who comes when you're down. Well, USD hasn't been anywhere to be found for NDSU. Not when NDSU needed home games in basketball (mayville state etc.), not when NDSU needed home games in football the last couple of years (They can play central arkansas but not NDSU???), not in a single sport. Not baseball, not volleyball, not ANYTHING. I can promise you that somewhere along the line NDSU could have used a game in something from USD. If the schools where on good terms, USD would have delivered it, end of story. Thats what schools that are on "good" terms do for each other. For anybody to claim that USD and NDSU are on "good" terms is laughable. At best, the administrations are indifferent to each other, and thats being generous.

[Riverman]

For anybody to claim that USD and NDSU are on "good" terms is laughable. At best, the administrations are indifferent to each other, and thats being generous.

That's a pretty BIG claim you are making isn't it?

Do you have proof? Or is it just "Yho"?(your humble opinion)

[Riverman]

I can promise you that somewhere along the line NDSU could have

You can promise?

[aff]

That's a pretty BIG claim you are making isn't it?

Do you have proof? Or is it just "Yho"?(your humble opinion)

I need proof now to show that two schools that haven't played each other in 5 years are not on good terms? I would think the burden of proof in that situation would be on the person trying to show they are on good terms. The obvious assumption is they are NOT on good terms.

[aff]

You can promise?

You're right, NDSU has had nothing but spectacular teams the last couple of years, and especially during that first year of the transition to play. Why would they want a home game with an old in-conference rival, some NAIA school is just as good.

[Riverman]

The obvious assumption is they are NOT on good terms.

aff, Read slowly it is YOUR obvious assumption correct?

Since YOU do not speak for any university this is simply speculation

and conjecture by you?

So yes please aff, IYHO please provide us less informed proof that two schools that haven't played each other in 5 years are not on good terms.

Or are you saying this is speculation and conjecture by you?

[aff]

1. NDSU needed games.

2. USD could provide games.

3. USD didn't provide games.

Whats so difficult here? If you want to believe that USD and NDSU are getting along like best friends fine, but that isn't the intelligent, unbiased, or reasonable conclusion. Like I said, the best "assumption" that can be made from this is that NDSU doesn't care either way. If you don't believe it and want to continue this conversation than GIVE A REASON OR SOME FORM OF EVIDENCE WHY (More than a nameless poster who claims they heard something from their mother's brother's best friends dog owner, who is a second cousin to Nielson) . In case you weren't aware, you don't disprove something another person says by merely saying that "There's a possibility" that it is incorrect, without laying out a single reason, piece of evidence, or even idea why it is wrong. If what you need to believe me is a direct quote from the University Presidents, than you're expectations are unreasonable. I've put out far more evidence to show that they aren't getting along than anybody has to show they are getting along, so the burden of proof is off of me.

I don't come on this board to argue semantics with people I've never met, and I don't come here to have my intelligence questioned because you refuse to believe anything outside of your initial thoughts. I've laid out why I think the schools are not on good terms, so tell me what in my analysis is wrong, or SHOW ME the evidence why its wrong.

[Riverman]

Whats so difficult here? If you want to believe that USD and NDSU are getting along like best friends fine, but that isn't the intelligent, unbiased, or reasonable conclusion. I've put out far more evidence to show that they aren't getting along than anybody has to show they are getting along, so the burden of proof is off of me.

so tell me what in my analysis is wrong,

I have reread your posts back to November. Am I missing something that you have posted or linked?

I do NOT see one link to saying that NDSU is unhappy with USD. I do NOT see one news report

saying anyone in Fargo is upset.

So I guess IMHO, your analysis is incorrect. Again conjecture on your part is not proof for

those that have read your posts. How can you try to point out false hood if you do not establish

validity of your statements?

[aff]

I guess I'm confused on what you want here? You need a news article specifically written to say that USD and NDSU are not getting along, or else they are? How much sense does that make?

As stated above, my analysis is:

1. NDSU needed games.

2. USD could have provided games.

3. USD refused to provide games.

I don't think its that big of a "conjecture" to say that the schools admins aren't best friends. No, there are no news articles saying otherwise, and no, I haven't discussed this with Nielson, Chapman etc.

If you choose to say that my analysis is wrong with no evidence of why they are getting along so well, thats your prerogative, but I find it hard to believe that an unbiased observer would out of hand reject what I've said based on absolutely nothing besides the fact that I don't have undeniable proof of it.

Lets try something different, tell me why you do think that NDSU and USD are getting along? What are your reasons for thinking this?

[bincitysioux]

How many sporting events did NDSU and Minnesota compete in in the five year period prior to NDSU moving to DI? They were obviously on bad terms before 2003. Something apparently changed and they are now on good terms.

But UND and Minnesota compete in athletic events every year, so that would mean they are on good terms, right? Except a recent Minnesota policy banning any future UND-Minnesota competitions in any spore except for two, might mean the schools are on bad terms. But they still play in those two sports. So are they friends or not?

I'm so confused as to who likes who and who doesn't like who.

One thing is certain though: USD and Florida St. obviously hate each other because I don't think they've ever played!!

[aff]

How many sporting events did NDSU and Minnesota compete in in the five year period prior to NDSU moving to DI? They were obviously on bad terms before 2003. Something apparently changed and they are now on good terms.

But UND and Minnesota compete in athletic events every year, so that would mean they are on good terms, right? Except a recent Minnesota policy banning any future UND-Minnesota competitions in any spore except for two, might mean the schools are on bad terms. But they still play in those two sports. So are they friends or not?

I'm so confused as to who likes who and who doesn't like who.

One thing is certain though: USD and Florida St. obviously hate each other because I don't think they've ever played!!

Brilliant reading comprehension. Let me repeat what I've said at least three times above.

THE BEST ASSUMPTION THAT CAN BE MADE IS THAT NDSU IS INDIFFERENT TO USD.

Is that clear enough for you, since you obviously spend more time coming up with a sarcastic post than actually trying to understand what someone is saying? I think it would be fair to say that Florida st. is indifferent to USD, and that Minnesota was indifferent to NDSU before moving to D-I. Not that those comparisons are even valid, since Florida St. and USD WERE NEVER IN A CONFERENCE TOGETHER, DON"T HAVE THE SAME HISTORY, and ARE OVER 1000 MILES APART. I ALSO DON'T REMEMBER USD AND MINNESOTA BEING IN A CONFERENCE TOGETHER. AND UND AND MINNESOTA ARE CURRENTLY IN THE SAME CONFERENCE, SO GREAT JOB WITH THE VERY RELEVANT COMPARISONS.

Really though, I hope in the future you can graze over more of what I say, and then make several nearly idiotic comparisons that have nothing to do with whats being discussed, in the future. Very helpful addition to the conversation!

[Yote 53]

Glad I sparked what is amounting to a jr. high after school special style controversy.

I talked to somebody inside USD about relationships with the former NCC schools and that is what I was told. NDSU is friendly to USD and SDSU is indifferent. These people are putting together schedules for the future, they talk to each other. I was also told that NDSU would like the 4 Dakotas to get back in the same conference, I've already stated the reasons.

Do I have concrete proof. No, I don't have any signed affadavits. Feel free to call it rumor or speculation. If that is how you would like to categorize it that is fine with me. Just remember this little controversy I started 3 or 4 years from now when conference announcements come out.

[NanoBison]

Glad I sparked what is amounting to a jr. high after school special style controversy.

I talked to somebody inside USD about relationships with the former NCC schools and that is what I was told. NDSU is friendly to USD and SDSU is indifferent. These people are putting together schedules for the future, they talk to each other. I was also told that NDSU would like the 4 Dakotas to get back in the same conference, I've already stated the reasons.

Do I have concrete proof. No, I don't have any signed affadavits. Feel free to call it rumor or speculation. If that is how you would like to categorize it that is fine with me. Just remember this little controversy I started 3 or 4 years from now when conference announcements come out.

No offense, but I would think someone 'inside' USD would be one of the last people, who knew the views of the NDSU staff and administration. I haven't heard anything from the athletic department of along the lines 'boy I wish all 4 of us could get back into the same conference, that would be swell'. If that was really the case, don't you think that NDSU and SDSU would not be bolting for the Gateway, if given the chance, but instead staying in the Great West to build that conference up. It's going to be at least 4-5 years, until you two, UND and USD, are eligible for playoffs, and at that time count on our schedule, when we might finally consider playing either of you. I'm not going to hold my breath though. At that point, our scheduling should pretty much fill up quickly every year. Same with SDSU's. I always thought that UND royally shot themselves in the foot by not moving up with NDSU/SDSU when they did. But USD, is simply going to be the Red-haired bastard child no one will want. If it wasn't the case, I would have expected to see UND/USD teaming up like we did in the hunt for conferences, but that isn't the case, is it? I see USD having ALOT of problems in their move up, and no support what-so-ever. It will be interesting, that's for sure.

[aff]

Glad I sparked what is amounting to a jr. high after school special style controversy.

I talked to somebody inside USD about relationships with the former NCC schools and that is what I was told. NDSU is friendly to USD and SDSU is indifferent. These people are putting together schedules for the future, they talk to each other. I was also told that NDSU would like the 4 Dakotas to get back in the same conference, I've already stated the reasons.

Do I have concrete proof. No, I don't have any signed affadavits. Feel free to call it rumor or speculation. If that is how you would like to categorize it that is fine with me. Just remember this little controversy I started 3 or 4 years from now when conference announcements come out.

Hey, I at least respect what your point of view is, because you're at least basing this on something, but I still don't really believe this.

I hope you understand where this stuff is coming from though. Right now USD NEEDS something, because as things stand now, they are pretty much screwed. A legitimate argument can be made that the mid-con won't expand past 10, and if two members leave so that UND/USD are admitted before 2013, the conference is dead from its loss of core members. And even if those spots do open up in another couple of years, theres no promise that USD is going to get them over the increasing number of schools that it appears are going to be moving up. Likewise, the Gateway is very unlikely to have a spot or spots open to accommodate USD in the near future. I also definitely don't see NDSU being an advocate to getting UND into the conference for exactly the reason Nanobison stated (SDSU and NDSU would turn down the Gateway if they were concerned about the UXD's being in the same conference as them). I hope you're not expecting to hear this kind of analysis from an insider at the USD athletic department.

I'm not trying to spread gloom and doom here, but USD is likely going to be in a very precarious position, and I think that Neilson and Abbot both know this, or at least I hope they understand this. I do agree with Star2City that the big sky is both UND and USD's best chance for conference affiliation, but I disagree on the chances of that actually occurring. The fact that UND and USD haven't yet publicly formed an "alliance" yet, indicates to me at least, that UND is thinking that there may only be one spot for a conference available (Read: Moving Big Sky to 10) in the near future, meaning that the indication they have is that the mid-con isn't going to move to 12. It would have been a more positive sign if only SDSU and NDSU were added to the mid con during the last round, leaving the conference at 9, and still in a possible expansion mode. If UND's goal (or what they thought was their best chance) was the mid-con, I think that them approaching the conference with USD would have been the priority.

Anyway, this is just my uninformed analysis. As I've said before, I think the chances of UND getting into the big sky are pretty low, but the chances of a mid-con bid for either school are even lower. Maybe the conference will move to two divisions, but that certainly isn't what the current trend is in D-I mid-majors (Mo. Valley is at 10, Horizon adds Valpo to move to 10, Big sky going after Denver or another school to get to 10, Mid-con adding 3 schools to get to 10). In the off chance that UND is added to the big sky, I think it is going to be almost impossible for USD to get mid con admission (adds a second costly trip to the dakotas, screws up travel partners in the conference, etc.)

This is an unfortunate situation for USD as they just have their athletic department moving in the right direction. Again, just my uninformed opinion.

[Matt]

1. NDSU needed games.

2. USD could provide games.

3. USD didn't provide games.

Whats so difficult here? If you want to believe that USD and NDSU are getting along like best friends fine, but that isn't the intelligent, unbiased, or reasonable conclusion. Like I said, the best "assumption" that can be made from this is that NDSU doesn't care either way. If you don't believe it and want to continue this conversation than GIVE A REASON OR SOME FORM OF EVIDENCE WHY (More than a nameless poster who claims they heard something from their mother's brother's best friends dog owner, who is a second cousin to Nielson) . In case you weren't aware, you don't disprove something another person says by merely saying that "There's a possibility" that it is incorrect, without laying out a single reason, piece of evidence, or even idea why it is wrong. If what you need to believe me is a direct quote from the University Presidents, than you're expectations are unreasonable. I've put out far more evidence to show that they aren't getting along than anybody has to show they are getting along, so the burden of proof is off of me.

I don't come on this board to argue semantics with people I've never met, and I don't come here to have my intelligence questioned because you refuse to believe anything outside of your initial thoughts. I've laid out why I think the schools are not on good terms, so tell me what in my analysis is wrong, or SHOW ME the evidence why its wrong.

The number of reasons why a school can or cannot schedule another school in any given year is far too long and complex to conclude, without a quote from the parties involved, that they are, or are not, on good or bad terms. If that is the standard for such a conclusion, then the number of schools which NDSU is not on good terms with is too long to count. How many NCC schools scheduled NDSU after they left? Are they all on bad terms? I should think very nearly all of the AD's or Presidents of NCC schools would consider themselves on good terms with their colleagues at NDSU, if they were asked such question. Further, since NDSU has never been on Northern Iowa's schedule since they left the NCC, yet the panthers hosted Moorhead State in 1993, were they on bad terms with all the AD's at NDSU since their NCC departure, and on good terms with the MSU administration? Of course not. Does Montana State buying out next year's game now mean they are on bad terms with the NDSU administration? Of course not. Those decisions are far too complex for such simplistic, and quite frankly, juvinile, reasons.

[aff]

The number of reasons why a school can or cannot schedule another school in any given year is far too long and complex to conclude, without a quote from the parties involved, that they are, or are not, on good or bad terms. If that is the standard for such a conclusion, then the number of schools which NDSU is not on good terms with is too long to count. How many NCC schools scheduled NDSU after they left? Are they all on bad terms? I should think very nearly all of the AD's or Presidents of NCC schools would consider themselves on good terms with their colleagues at NDSU, if they were asked such question. Further, since NDSU has never been on Northern Iowa's schedule since they left the NCC, yet the panthers hosted Moorhead State in 1993, were they on bad terms with all the AD's at NDSU since their NCC departure, and on good terms with the MSU administration? Of course not. Does Montana State buying out next year's game now mean they are on bad terms with the NDSU administration? Of course not. Those decisions are far too complex for such simplistic, and quite frankly, juvinile, reasons.

Come on, in 5 years two teams within 300 miles of each other, that were previously in a conference, haven't had an opportunity to schedule each other in any sport? When NDSU was already on USD's schedule for the first year of the transition to D-II, USD had to make a special effort to NOT play NDSU and schedule Peru State. It would have been easier to simply play the game that had been scheduled for at least 3 years previous to that, and that is for all sports, not just the major ones. USD seriously had to go through extra effort to find NAIA schools to take NDSU's place on their schedules. Does that sound like something friendly schools do? Or would they suck it up and play one last game going into the transition to D-I?

The comparison to Montana State, Northern Iowa etc. doesn't make any sense, because those schools aren't as close to NDSU as USD is, and those schools haven't been in the same conference as NDSU in the last 5 years. Yes, there are a lot of reasons to not play a team, but seeing USD drop NDSU off of their schedule in everything, after they played them in every sport they had the previous year kind of makes you raise an eyebrow. You're not going to convince me that USD couldn't have helped NDSU during the first year of their transition to D-I, even if it was only in the non-revenue sports.

Again, this is not at all similar to Montana States buyout, OSU playing Florida, SDSU playing Illinois, or any other conference arrangements. The only thing that has been simplistic are these ridiculous comparisons to non-NCC schools that are 1000 miles away from NDSU.

[Matt]

Come on, in 5 years two teams within 300 miles of each other, that were previously in a conference, haven't had an opportunity to schedule each other in any sport? When NDSU was already on USD's schedule for the first year of the transition to D-II, USD had to make a special effort to NOT play NDSU and schedule Peru State. It would have been easier to simply play the game that had been scheduled for at least 3 years previous to that, and that is for all sports, not just the major ones. USD seriously had to go through extra effort to find NAIA schools to take NDSU's place on their schedules. Does that sound like something friendly schools do? Or would they suck it up and play one last game going into the transition to D-I?

The comparison to Montana State, Northern Iowa etc. doesn't make any sense, because those schools aren't as close to NDSU as USD is, and those schools haven't been in the same conference as NDSU in the last 5 years. Yes, there are a lot of reasons to not play a team, but seeing USD drop NDSU off of their schedule in everything, after they played them in every sport they had the previous year kind of makes you raise an eyebrow. You're not going to convince me that USD couldn't have helped NDSU during the first year of their transition to D-I, even if it was only in the non-revenue sports.

Again, this is not at all similar to Montana States buyout, OSU playing Florida, SDSU playing Illinois, or any other conference arrangements. The only thing that has been simplistic are these ridiculous comparisons to non-NCC schools that are 1000 miles away from NDSU.

Fargodome to Cedar Falls, IA-452.59 mi.

Nemzek Hall to Cedar Falls, IA-447.70 mi.

My bad, proximity makes all the difference. Or maybe Katie Wilson and President Dille were just better friends with the UNI athletic admin...or maybe the simple answer that has nothing to do with the relationship between the two schools...they wanted to bring in a nonconference patsy willing to take a big payout to take a beating.

[bincitysioux]

Let me repeat what I've said at least three times above.

THE BEST ASSUMPTION THAT CAN BE MADE IS THAT NDSU IS INDIFFERENT TO USD.

Now I'm really confused. I thought you said the two schools are on bad terms. Now you say they are "indifferent". So which is it, aff......flip, or flop?

[89rabbit]

Not that I really want to join this little party, but UNI has scheduled NDSU in many sports over the past few years.

Baseball

Soccer

Softball

Volleyball

Wrestling

[aff]

Now I'm really confused. I thought you said the two schools are on bad terms. Now you say they are "indifferent". So which is it, aff......flip, or flop?

READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS AND PRACTICE YOUR READING COMPREHENSION. I'M NOT GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH YOU IF YOU CAN'T READ WHAT I HAVE VERY CLEARLY INDICATED AT LEAST 3 TIMES ON THIS THREAD.

[aff]

Fargodome to Cedar Falls, IA-452.59 mi.

Nemzek Hall to Cedar Falls, IA-447.70 mi.

My bad, proximity makes all the difference. Or maybe Katie Wilson and President Dille were just better friends with the UNI athletic admin...or maybe the simple answer that has nothing to do with the relationship between the two schools...they wanted to bring in a nonconference patsy willing to take a big payout to take a beating.

Seriously, this is getting too stupid to even discuss anymore. Do I really have to lay out the reasons why USD-NDSU is different than UNI-NDSU AGAIN? You really think that UNI is a valid comparison to USD. Nothing different there, at all? No differences that would make that comparison irrelevant?

(HINT: READ THE ABOVE POST AGAIN. I HAVE ALREADY LAID OUT WHY THE COMPARISON IS NOT VALID, AND IT WAS MORE THAN DISTANCE).

[Matt]

Seriously, this is getting too stupid to even discuss anymore. Do I really have to lay out the reasons why USD-NDSU is different than UNI-NDSU AGAIN? You really think that UNI is a valid comparison to USD. Nothing different there, at all? No differences that would make that comparison irrelevant?

(HINT: READ THE ABOVE POST AGAIN. I HAVE ALREADY LAID OUT WHY THE COMPARISON IS NOT VALID, AND IT WAS MORE THAN DISTANCE).

You listed two reasons why the comparison didn't make sense to you: first was distance to NDSU, second was that they hadn't been in the same conference for more than 5 years. I made my point about distance, and about your five year rule...how many games did NDSU schedule UNI in anything in the 5 years after the panters left the NCC?

The fact that you are making several arguments about why the Bison didn't play UNI, and not one of them is about how the schools feel about the other (good/bad/indifferent) makes my point.

[Yote 53]

Feff, I have something for you, though I doubt you will view it as proof. I'll admit, it is more hearsay, but this is coming from multiple sources now. Check out post number 4 and the ensuing discussion on this link to the Jacks board.

http://www.sdsufans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB...um=1167579712/0

USD AD Nielson on a two day trip to the NDSU AD offices with NDSU offering aid to USD in its transition process. SDSU directing its AD employees to do absolutely nothing to assist USD. Here is a second source saying the same thing. How many sources does journalism school say that you need? I didn't go to the Al Neuharth school of mass comm/journalism so someone will have to inform me.