GF Herald Editorial Page

[PCM]

What's amusing about Bison fans' great concern for UND's finances is that after NDSU announced its intention to move to DI, Sioux fans were asking the same types of questions and expressing similar concerns about NDSU. Some of us even attempted to prod the Fargo media into investigating where the money to cover NDSU's increased DI expenses would come from.

Were our questions ever answered? No. Were our concerns ever addressed? Indirectly, yes. NDSU has made the move without falling into financial ruin. Obviously, NDSU found or raised the money before it made the move. It just hasn't had any great desire to reveal where the additional funding came from.

Now that UND has announced its intention to move to DI, some Bison fans are acting just like Sioux fans were a few years ago. The big difference is that fans of both schools now have the benefit of NDSU's experience. But instead of looking at that experience and saying, "If NDSU can come up with the funding, then UND can, too," certain Bison fans simply assume there's no possible way that UND ever can do what NDSU did. They assume that the amount of money coming into UND athletics at this moment can never be increased.

So thanks for your concern, Bison fans. I'm sure UND will find some way to muddle its way through to DI. After all, NDSU did.

[The Sicatoka]

When Taylor opens the NDSU athletic books, ...

Someone else has pounded on that theme; who was that ....

[star2city]

Someone else has pounded on that theme; who was that ....

"kchats" ?

[Hammersmith]

Sorry, this one got away from me. I tried to respond to too many posters at once.

I'm not automatically against a DI move for UND, I just don't want to see it tried and failed. The reason I made the sweeping under the rug comment was that the only place I've seen the deficits discussed have been on these message boards. Where is the public questioning of the UND administration by the media or the state government? I haven't seen it yet. I think the financial numbers are too large to be discussed behind closed doors, and I don't mean the IAC. Would I like NDSU's books to be open? Hell yes! However, there was legislative scrutiny back when NDSU announced its move. That hasn't happened yet in UND's case. Perhaps it will come in time, and that will be fine. It's just that there doesn't seem to be indications that it's going to happen yet.

Regarding Cratter's post: UND isn't going to get major guarantee money for at least three years. Even then, you are looking at approx. $400k per year total(FB+BB). It's a bite, but not a big one. Regarding the Branson Property/Danley Gift, are you suggesting that those major sources of income/scholarships be diverted solely to the athletic department? Is that healthy for the university? As far as student fees go, how much are the students willing to spend? To generate $1M, the fee would have to be raised about $85/year. I don't know how far the university can push the fee on top of rising tuition. Maybe enough? I just don't know. Correct me if I'm wrong(I know you will ), but isn't Frozen Four money less than $250k? I do worry. I don't want UND to fail and be badly hurt.

star: It is my understanding that NDSU does not use tuition waivers for athletics. It goes back to a bill that was proposed back when NDSU announced its move. (No state funding to be used for DI athletics - except hockey - that, apparently, was okay) The bill failed, but Taylor said during the discussion that general fund monies would not be used. I believe that tuition waivers fall into that category, but I could be wrong. Chapman also said in 2004 that he did not want to use waivers for athletics. In any case, tuition waivers are used for far more than just athletics. The lion's share of tuition waivers used at both NDSU and UND are for graduate students. We aren't against waviers, we just don't think they should be used to prop up an athletic department. The BSA renovation will break ground this spring. The money is in hand and the architect is on campus. The most important fact about the BSA?(IMO) Capacity: 7000-8000. Room to grow. Respectfully, I'm not whining. I'm genuinely concerned. Yes, I was also concerned back in 2003.

About the facilities arguement, I don't see where you're coming from. The following isn't meant to be smack, but it is critical. UND: hockey - fantastic; football - adequate/undersized; basketball - undersized; volleyball - v good; baseball - bad; outdoor track - poor(I think); softball, indoor track, soccer, tennis, golf, swim/dive - ?; NDSU: football - v good, basketball(post-reno) - good, indoor track(post-reno) - v good; wrestling(post reno) - v good; baseball - v good; softball - adequate; soccer - good; outdoor track - good; volleyball - poor; golf - ? I don't think UND has an advantage, and if it does, it isn't much.

Media: FSSN is a great resource; I'm not disputing that. Question though: Other than hockey and football, what else is televised? I honestly don't know. I do know that since the Fargodome's production capabilites were upgraded, NDSU now webcasts and archives almost all of its home contests in most sports. There's still work to do, but with the archiving, I'd take GoBison.com over FSSN. Your mileage may vary, though.

Just two more thoughts and my treatise will be over. I honestly don't believe that Kupchella is the man to get you though the reclassification. I think he is gun-shy from his last job and I don't think he sees how athletics fit into a healthy 4+year public uni like UND. I think he views athletics in a vacuum rather than as part of a greater plan like Chapman did when he used athletics as a marketing tool to raise money and support for the other parts of NDSU. Lastly, if we are going to get info in December, then I'm willing to wait for it. But if, in December, all we get are vague promises and platitudes, I hope you'll be with me then, asking the tough questions.

Oh, and I fully expect an audit of the NDSU athletic department as the transition wraps up. We do need to know that everything was handled properly.

[PCM]

Where is the public questioning of the UND administration by the media or the state government?

As far as I can tell, the same place it was when NDSU announced its move.

Just two more thoughts and my treatise will be over. I honestly don't believe that Kupchella is the man to get you though the reclassification.

As I said, you don't know the man. I'm not pretending to be any sort of expert on him, either, but it should be clear by now that many Bison fans have misjudged Kupchella and continue to do so.

[The Sicatoka]

Would I like NDSU's books to be open? Hell yes!

So, where are they*?

Much of your treatise is written with an underlying assumption: That NDSU's book are at worst balanced, if not better.

Until we have public disclosure of said records to date, the reasonable assumption must remain that said books are at best in their pre-DI status (slightly red). This assumption would be validated in that the last media report on the subject said that NDSU had not reached its fundraising goal*.

*"I have no problem opening our books and showing that we're doing what we promised we'd do two years ago," Taylor said last week. -- 'Division I dollars: Raising funds has its good days, bad days', by Jeff Kolpack, The Forum, published Sunday, April 17, 2005.

** "His goal is $1 million a year for the next two years. He says this year's target is 40 percent complete with a June 31 [sic] deadline." -- stet

[Eskimos]

Media: FSSN is a great resource; I'm not disputing that. Question though: Other than hockey and football, what else is televised? I honestly don't know. I do know that since the Fargodome's production capabilites were upgraded, NDSU now webcasts and archives almost all of its home contests in most sports. There's still work to do, but with the archiving, I'd take GoBison.com over FSSN. Your mileage may vary, though.

seriously, you make some fine arguments and points that can be debated, but this one makes me laugh. You pick GoBison.com over FSSN and you have to ask what else FSSN televises?

As you say throughout your posts, this is not smack, but I don't see Bison fans rushing to Joe Senser's to watch an archived Basketball game on GoBison.com.

[CoteauRinkRat]

Media: FSSN is a great resource; I'm not disputing that. Question though: Other than hockey and football, what else is televised? I honestly don't know. I do know that since the Fargodome's production capabilites were upgraded, NDSU now webcasts and archives almost all of its home contests in most sports. There's still work to do, but with the archiving, I'd take GoBison.com over FSSN. Your mileage may vary, though.

Talk to any objective Bison fan/alumnus and they would love something like FSSN.

GoBison.com's webcasts and archives is definitely a great feature and an area that UND needs to greatly improve in.

[dlsiouxfan]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't ndsu's athletic budget balanced last year by a last minute anonymous donor donating funds to exactly balance the budget (some one has a link somewhere..... don't have time to look up). It was never disclosed how big it was which means for all practical purposes ndsu's athletic department is running a deficit as well but was just lucky enough to have a large one- time cash flow balance the books. Counting on donations such as this every year isn't very advisable and basically just delays the inevitable if you don't fix the underlying problems related to the deficit. But yes continue throwing stones from your glass houses.

[aff]

I'm still here asking cost and conference. And I've asked the right people in the UND adminstrative structure.

The financial plan committee is working on the details. I'll let them work. They're due with data in December.

The political wing of UND administration is working on the conference issues. I'll let them work too until at least December.

Folks, you need to re-read what PCM posted here:

Kupchella saw DI done wrong in Missouri. That won't happen under his watch.

Kupchella didn't want to move at all, and is attempting to leave the school. Maybe he sees something coming that can't be avoided because of alumni pressure?

[UND Fan]

Kupchella didn't want to move at all, and is attempting to leave the school. Maybe he sees something coming that can't be avoided because of alumni pressure?

What type of pressure are you referring to? Pressure on him? Pressure regarding DI?

[mksioux]

What's comical about this whole situation is that the Bison fans like the author of the editorial piece act like they care about UND's financial situation when it's readily apparent that their underlying motive is that they don't want to see UND join them in DI. That's fine. But don't couch it like you're a concerned citizen looking out for UND's finances. The stated "concern" rings hollow and that's why nobody takes it seriously.

To be fair, I'm sure there were UND fans doing the same thing (acting like they cared about NDSU's finances) a few years ago when NDSU made the jump. Those UND fans doing it back then were frauds, just like the NDSU fans doing it now are frauds.

An outsider reading these message boards would think he stumbled on to some nerd-infested, calculator-toting message board for forensic accounting enthusiasts.

My apologies to the one or two of you out there that are true economic conservatives and have and continue to criticize both schools for making the move on a less-than-sound financial footing. I respect that argument, even though I still disagree with it. I believe there is a significant value to affiliating your university with its peers and there will never be a financially perfect time to make the move.

Full disclosure - I've been on record from the begining that UND should have moved with NDSU. UND made a mistake by staying put. I will admit to any NDSU fan that UND will have a more difficult time in the transition because of its mistake. Having said that, to think that UND is now doomed is laughable. UND will be just fine in the long run.

[The Sicatoka]

Kupchella didn't want to move at all, and is attempting to leave the school. Maybe he sees something coming that can't be avoided because of alumni pressure?

Couldn't the same be put out there under same hypothesis for NDSU's Chapman (his application at Wyoming) and SDSU's Miller (her resignation/retirement)?

And as far as pressure affecting Charles Kupchella, he could have easily buckled, blamed the NCAA, and pulled the "Fighting Sioux" moniker on August 6, 2005. That he was going to pull the moniker is the urban legend out there since 2000. He got an easy chance, with big (NCAA) pressure: Nope. And we got the opposite response from Kupchella no less!

None of us really know Charles Kupchella; however, the man surprises me (more positively) every day.

[The Sicatoka]

One more notion folks:

When Roger Thomas resigned and the search for a new AD began, one candidate for the job was chatting openly (to the media) about how UND would be a good DI school and how he'd love to lead a DI Athletic Department at UND.

Charles Kupchella got the list of finalists.

Charles Kupchella had the final say.

Charles Kupchella hired Tom Buning.

Tom Buning is the man first mentioned.

Tell me again:

Why would Kupchella hire an openly pro-DI Tom Buning as his AD if he had no intentions of moving?

[aff]

Couldn't the same be put out there under same hypothesis for NDSU's Chapman (his application at Wyoming) and SDSU's Miller (her resignation/retirement)?

And as far as pressure affecting Charles Kupchella, he could have easily buckled, blamed the NCAA, and pulled the "Fighting Sioux" moniker on August 6, 2005. That he was going to pull the moniker is the urban legend out there since 2000. He got an easy chance, with big (NCAA) pressure: Nope. And we got the opposite response from Kupchella no less!

None of us really know Charles Kupchella; however, the man surprises me (more positively) every day.

You made my exact point. Why didn't Kup. pull that moniker again? Pressure from the alumni. If had done it there would be he!l to pay. Same with not moving D-I. It doesn't mean its a wise decision, it means that Kuppy doesn't think he has a choice.

[aff]

One more notion folks:

When Roger Thomas resigned and the search for a new AD began, one candidate for the job was chatting openly (to the media) about how UND would be a good DI school and how he'd love to lead a DI Athletic Department at UND.

Charles Kupchella got the list of finalists.

Charles Kupchella had the final say.

Charles Kupchella hired Tom Buning.

Tom Buning is the man first mentioned.

Tell me again:

Why would Kupchella hire an openly pro-DI Tom Buning as his AD if he had no intentions of moving?

So he was getting pressured into it before Bunning got here and even evaluated the finances. Whats your point?

[Sioux-cia]

Why are ndsu fans concerned about UND's success in the move to D1? Are they really trying to save us from 'whatever'? There must be a lot of head spinning and pea soup spewing going on over in bisonville.

[PCM]

It doesn't mean its a wise decision, it means that Kuppy doesn't think he has a choice.

You're still wrong. In fact, you're not even close.

[aff]

You're still wrong. In fact, you're not even close.

No, YOU'RE wrong. DEAD WRONG IN FACT.

LOL. Thanks for the informational reply above there.

[PCM]

No, YOU'RE wrong. DEAD WRONG IN FACT.

LOL. Thanks for the informational reply above there.

Have you ever talked to the man? Or do you just read his mind?

[biff]

Just a few points...

Before some of you get so hostile to Bison people about financials and accuse them of being jealous or scared of UND in DI or whatever, I think there's 3 stances of Bison fans on this issue:

1. Those that hate UND and want failure at all costs

2. Those who are interested in financials or just what happens

3. Those who are worried that their tax dollars are being spent wisely

Most (although many) don't fall in to category #1. Some just are interested in what's going on since one of us is in the middle of this right now. I'd be quite interested in seeing the details of NDSU's last minute donor and what's up at UND. Until there are numbers, everything is speculation.

NDSU was fortunate to have the full support of the president in athletics. Kupchella, for understandable reasons given past history, was very responsible in hiring a very capable AD in Mr. Buning. He's been good at reacting well to major issues.

I've never read anywhere that NDSU was using tuition waivers for athletics. I have read UND was. If this is incorrect, please produce the evidence.

Carry on.

[82SiouxGuy]

No, YOU'RE wrong. DEAD WRONG IN FACT.

LOL. Thanks for the informational reply above there.

Aff, are you related to Miss Cleo? You seem to think that you are able to read minds. And unless you are living in Grand Forks, you must be doing it from quite a distance. That would be very impressive if you weren't so far off from the truth.

I don't claim to know Kupchella well, but I have talked to him several times. He is a deliberate person. He plans moves very thoroughly. That is why he decided to take an extra year in the move up. He is going to take the time needed to do this move right. There are many ways to raise the money needed and they will review every possibility to find the right mix of sources. He also works very hard to make something happen when he makes a decision. That is why many of us aren't worried, it is far too early in the process to be worried. His long term plans for the University have proven very successful so far and we have no reason to belive that he won't be successful with this process. So relax a little bit and let the process play out some. If they don't have a plan announced in a few months and definitely before they reach the exploratory year, then we can all be concerned.

[CoteauRinkRat]

What's comical about this whole situation is that the Bison fans like the author of the editorial piece act like they care about UND's financial situation when it's readily apparent that their underlying motive is that they don't want to see UND join them in DI. That's fine. But don't couch it like you're a concerned citizen looking out for UND's finances. The stated "concern" rings hollow and that's why nobody takes it seriously.

Well said mksioux. I love it when an argument is prefaced with "I'm just concerned" or "I'm not talking smack". When I see those phrases, it generally means there is going to be smack talked from someone who is not concerned about UND's well being at all.

[The Sicatoka]

... it means that Kuppy doesn't think he has a choice.

So much can be gleaned from that sentence:

1. Clearly, we learned of your personal view of Dr. Charles Kupchella with the reference to him as "Kuppy."

2. Kupchella has a choice, he has the ultimate choice: Stay or go. He still has the big office on third floor in Twamley Hall. What's that say?

3. You have little idea how Kupchella operates and has operated. For starters, try reading Priority/Action Area A, Goal 5 in here**. That's Kupchella's Strategic Plan* for UND. We are in year two of five of that. Dr. Kupchella, and his senior most advisors, work to a well thought out plan, and to a schedule, controlling what's theirs to control. That the plan doesn't meet the desired timelines of other folks is not the primary concern. The concern is plan execution for the greatest long-term benefit to UND. (That's the job description.)

* That's actually StratPlanII. He has already completed the actions from StratPlanI and used that as the foundation to build this one from.

** I'm sure you'll enjoy all of Priority/Action Area G also.

[PCM]

I don't claim to know Kupchella well, but I have talked to him several times. He is a deliberate person. He plans moves very thoroughly.

I agree. I don't know Kupchella well, either, and don't pretend to. But unlike "aff," I have at least talked to him and others in UND's administration working on the DI move. And while I'm still not totally convinced that the move is necessary, I am confident there's no way Kupchella would allow it to happen without all the bases being covered. That's just not the way he works.

I take what I know for certain, what can be inferred from particular events and combine them with what I know about the people making the decisions. I add 2 and 2 to get 4. Some Bison fans and "aff" take 2 + 2 and come up with 666 as their answer. They damage their own credibility by ranting about Kupchella and claiming that he's leading UND to financial ruin.