UNO studying Division I

[aff]

I would like to express my thanks to DI IN FARGO and aff for voicing their concerns about UND's finances. It shows me that they have quite an interest in the well-being of the institutions of higher education in throughout our region, as well they should.

I am sure that if I went to the Gophers' message board I would find both of them posting about U of M's bloated athletic budget & their deficit.

University of Minnesota

Revenue: $51,721,017

Expense: $52,316,266

I'll bet that aff in particular has several threads on the bunny-board devoted to SDSU's economic conditions.

South Dakota State University

Revenue: $6,280,833

Expense: $6,547,381

NDSU, of course, had that last minute miracle donor.

North Dakota State University

Revenue: $7,668,848

Expense: $7,668,848

And then there is UND with that money-sucking hockey program.

University of North Dakota

Revenue: $10,021,643

Expense: $9,958,728

And I'm sure the both of them are constantly on the Coyote board because everyone knows that USD loses money so fast that it'll make your head spin.

University of South Dakota

Revenue: $4,311,013

Expense: $4,265,076

Thank you to all the fans of other schools that have expressed your concerns for the financial well-being of all the Universities in the Upper Midwest!

WOW. Thanks for the great site. I had no idea this existed before!!!! Just a couple questions for you, since I'm sure you're an expert on how these budgets were put together, seeing as how you had the need to mock everyone else.

1. Do those numbers include facility upgrades.

2. Do those numbers include advertising budgets.

3. Do those numbers include tuition waivers.

4. Are those numbers checked in anyway?

5. Do those numbers include facility rental agreements?

Seeing as how you posted in that manner, I'm sure you have no problem answering these questions, do you? I mean those should be pretty simple to find the answers to, right. All of the budgets are calculated in exactly the same manner I'm sure. No room for schools to "interpret" their numbers with that system, I'm sure. 100% full proof.

FYI... This link for SDSU puts their budget at a little under 8 million, and thats the reported budget from the school itself. Why don't you tell me why their a disparity, since you think you proved some big point with that website. I mean, everyone else is an idiot and has no idea that site existed before you brought it to our attention. So please, tell me if UND included its tuition waivers in that statement? Tell me if SDSU had a deficit because they truly used more money than they gained, or because a big donors donation to balance the rest of the budget wasn't in during the reporting period for that report. Because I don't know about any of this, really, educate me.

And thats awsome that USD had a one year increase in their budget from a volante article of over 1.2 million dollars. Wow. Joel Nielson is the best AD on earth. One year and a 25% increase in the budget. Simply incredible. Funny how they cut baseball to save less money then they currently have a surplus for? If only they could have made it that extra year, baseball would have had all the money it needed.

Have you heard enough yet? Maybe educate yourself on the idea that even reported numbers can very easily be manipulated to make situations look more favorable for certain institutions.

SDSU athletic report

[aff]

Wow, just saw that site still hasn't been updated for this year. Great job on using that from the 04-05 season. Pretty relevant I would say.

[GeauxSioux]

SDSU had a baseball game against the gophers in Sioux Falls. NDSU beat the gophers and badgers in softball. Nationally there isn't too much of a difference in those in my opinion. If you go south, baseball is much more important than hockey is, but their both relatively minor compared to basketball and football in college sports in the country. I don't really see the difference between any of them.

The difference is that UND plays and beats Minnesota and Wisconsin in GF, Minneapolis, Madison and on neutral ice in a sport in which the Gophers and Badgers are considered to be in the top 10 in the country every year. These games are televised and sold-out.

Minnesota and Wisconsin baseball and softball are not top teams. There is no way that the baseball or softball games against Minn or Wisc will be televised and sold-out.

[aff]

I don't know they'll probably just tell the athletes the same thing that sdsu will be able to tell their players regarding their current success at the D-I level. Oh wait I guess that wouldn't be the best recruiting pitch. UND will be no worse off than either of the SU's when it comes to basketball recruiting. We've already go the best facility (the Ralph) and scheduling games around hockey won't be that big of a problem considering how other schools (Wisconsin) seem to be able to manage it. Plus, UND is probably most likely looking at either the Mid- Con or the Big Sky conference for basketball membership and most of the members in those conferences don't have exactly overwhelming facilities or attendance for their basketball programs.

Pretty sure SDSU's coaches will be using hockey against you too. But I know, you have a history of basketball success in the last decade to use for recruits too. No recruit is going to be impressed with the ralph when they find out they will play their twice a year. It might as well be rupp arena for SDSU, or if they want to play basketball to be in the ralph they might as well go to NDSU. They'll play in their the same amount either way. LOL.

[Shawn-O]

SDSU had a baseball game against the gophers in Sioux Falls. NDSU beat the gophers and badgers in softball. Nationally there isn't too much of a difference in those in my opinion.

If you're comparing the Frozen Four and the College World Series, I agree. I'm sure we'll be seeing the Jacks and Bison making regular appearances in Omaha very soon.

If you go south, baseball is much more important than hockey is, but their both relatively minor compared to basketball and football in college sports in the country. I don't really see the difference between any of them.

Let me get this straight. Baseball is more popular where the weather is warm, and hockey is a bigger deal where the weather is colder? Got it. Football and basketball are bigger on the national stage than other sports? Great stuff. Very relevant. You're something else, Mr. Gloom & Doom.

UND has had several years in it's athletic history where both hockey and basketball thrived, in the win column and at the box office. There's no reason why we can't get back to that again. To suggest that the UND hockey program is in any way a liability to UND athletics is delusional.

[BobIwabuchiFan]

Aff or *Bison or DI*,

Keep it up...I already hear the keys clicking to send electronic checks...You guys are the best...Keep posting your dribble because its a gauge on how scared you guys really are about this move. I personally don't care if the football or basketball or softball or ping-pong or the debate team goes D-I, but I do care about ND's most recognized sports team (The Fighting Sioux Hockey Team - 7 Time D-I National Champions). To that point, I had to repeat it because it seems to really pi$$ you guys off for some reasons - oh yah! Its those damn Grand Forks people being arrogant again...Someday we'll all realize how great you farmers are in Fargo gosh darnit!

PS Quit pretending that you guys really give a crap about UND - you just it so you can get on the board and float your absurd versions of reality.

BobIwabuchiFan (Part of our 4th Division I National Championship team - how long do you think it will take NDSU to get even one? Personally my money is on SDSU in Basketball but who really cares about basketball in the upper midwest?)

[aff]

If you're comparing the Frozen Four and the College World Series, I agree. I'm sure we'll be seeing the Jacks and Bison making regular appearances in Omaha very soon.

Let me get this straight. Baseball is more popular where the weather is warm, and hockey is a bigger deal where the weather is colder? Got it. Football and basketball are bigger on the national stage than other sports? Great stuff. Very relevant. You're something else, Mr. Gloom & Doom.

UND has had several years in it's athletic history where both hockey and basketball thrived, in the win column and at the box office. There's no reason why we can't get back to that again. To suggest that the UND hockey program is in any way a liability to UND athletics is delusional.

Yeah, the 80's was getting to be quite awhile ago. The reason you won't be able to get back up to that is because you will be at a new level of competition, where you already are the bottom rung to D-I recruits/ coaches. Add to that other coaches will be telling recruits that UND doesn't care about basketball, that they will be 2nd priority in the winter, when they could be first priority at another school. Or that funds will go to hockey before basketball. Or that UND doesn't care about anything besides football and hockey. I guess thats dillusional to think that other coaches will/can use any advantage they possibly have to beat UND though. If you think other coaches aren't going to be saying this stuff than you're dillusional. If you think its going to be easy to lure legitimate D-I bball talent to grand forks than you're dillusional.

And really, congrats on making fun of SDSU and NDSU for not being in the CWS in the near future. Whats next, making fun of Florida State for not having a hockey final four? ASU for never getting the championship round? Thats a pretty stupid comparison, since UND in cold weather climate is trying to compete in a cold weather sport, while SDSU and NDSU in a cold weather climate are trying to compete in a warm weather sport. I know though. HOCKEY HOCKEY HOCKEY HOCKEY. If I say it enough, it might matter! Right? Right? Oh nobody cares, STILL.

[aff]

Aff or *Bison or DI*,

Keep it up...I already hear the keys clicking to send electronic checks...You guys are the best...Keep posting your dribble because its a gauge on how scared you guys really are about this move. I personally don't care if the football or basketball or softball or ping-pong or the debate team goes D-I, but I do care about ND's most recognized sports team (The Fighting Sioux Hockey Team - 7 Time D-I National Champions). To that point, I had to repeat it because it seems to really pi$$ you guys off for some reasons - oh yah! Its those damn Grand Forks people being arrogant again...Someday we'll all realize how great you farmers are in Fargo gosh darnit!

PS Quit pretending that you guys really give a crap about UND - you just it so you can get on the board and float your absurd versions of reality.

BobIwabuchiFan (Part of our 4th Division I National Championship team - how long do you think it will take NDSU to get even one? Personally my money is on SDSU in Basketball but who really cares about basketball in the upper midwest?)

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.... HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY. Bob, if you think a final four in basketball and hockey are the same you're a moron. Hockey doesn't matter. Sorry. Stop bringing it up, it doesn't help you move D-I, nobody cares if you've won every hockey championship. Theres not even enough teams to form a D-II, and barely enough to make a championship. Basketball and football are about 1000 times more important than hockey, and to mention them in the same breath as hockey is retarded.

And yes, I'm sure distinguished alums are always reading this board and its moronic posts daily. And I know they got into the position of having enough money to donate because they make rash decisions based on the ego of UND and Grand Forks. Really, I'm sure some millionare is going to read this, and say "What the he!l did that AFF say? Goddammit, here's 5 million a year". Give me a break.

And please, please, please don't talk about hockey again. Seriously, its like beating my head against a wall listening to you about hockey. For the last time, I'm not impressed, I don't care, nobody will ever care outside ND. Nobody even knows the basic rules of the sport below ND.

[aff]

Are you really accusing me of bringing hockey up as irrelevant? Seriously, I would be willing to bet that it was a UND fan that brought up hockey, not the outsider. I expect to say that same sentence repeated to bobiwhaos

ujfaslkfa;slfjafan or whatever his name is.

[Riverman]

[

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.... HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY, HOCKEY. Bob, if you think a final four in basketball and hockey are the same you're a moron. Hockey doesn't matter. Sorry. Stop bringing it up, it doesn't help you move D-I, nobody cares if you've won every hockey championship. Theres not even enough teams to form a D-II, and barely enough to make a championship. Basketball and football are about 1000 times more important than hockey, and to mention them in the same breath as hockey is retarded.

And please, please, please don't talk about hockey again. Seriously, its like beating my head against a wall listening to you about hockey. For the last time, I'm not impressed, I don't care, nobody will ever care outside ND. Nobody even knows the basic rules of the sport below ND.

FYI, Boston Mass is below the state line of ND. Not sure but I think latitude around 46 and I believe the Boston area is around 42.

Oh we do love the name calling aff. Mom or Dad mean to you when you were young? Just simple little questions we on this board are just trying to understand your point of view.

You seem to be very "hostile and abusive" towards anything GF-UND- or the GREAT STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA.

Just for you aff we will continue to talk about the 7 yes 7 Division 1 titles. No need to thank us.

[aff]

FYI, Boston Mass is below the state line of ND. Not sure but I think latitude around 46 and I believe the Boston area is around 42.

Oh we do love the name calling aff. Mom or Dad mean to you when you were young? Just simple little questions we on this board are just trying to understand your point of view.

You seem to be very "hostile and abusive" towards anything GF-UND- or the GREAT STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA.

Just for you aff we will continue to talk about the 7 yes 7 Division 1 titles. No need to thank us.

And... another conversation has been totally changed to hockey by UND fans when faced with something bad.

[bincitysioux]

Maybe educate yourself on the idea that even reported numbers can very easily be manipulated to make situations look more favorable for certain institutions.

Are you saying that it is your opinion that U of M and SDSU "manipulated" their numbers to show deficits in the hundreds of thousands of dollars because that is more favorable than their actual situation? That doesn't sound good.

The reason I used this site is because all institutions have to report their numbers to it, using certain criteria. It is the only source available, that I am aware of, that offers the information about every school in an objective manner, in which all schools must follow certain parameters while reporting. Unlike you, aff, I don't have access to all of these school's ledger books , so I feel that whether these numbers are "manipulated" or not, at least they are all reported following the same guidelines for each school. If you are more comfortable using the numbers from an SDSU press release and comparing it to the numbers you read in an article in USD's school newspaper writted by a sophomore journalism student and then taking those numbers and comparing them to the ones that NDSU has posted on the Equity in Athletics website, that's fine. Whatever floats your boat.

[aff]

Q: So how is UND going to fund a move to D-I?

UND Fan: We have 7 national hockey titles. Do you want to know the years?

Q: No, I want to know how you're going to fund a move to D-I.

UND Fan: We beat Wisconsin the last two years in hockey thats how.

Q: Umm ok, so how are you going to be competitive in basketball in D-I, when you haven't been in D-II.

UND Fan: The frozen four is the best attended event in the NCAA.

Q: I didn't ask that, but alright. So what about that deficit that you're running in D-II. Can you make that up.

UND Fan: We play minnesota in hockey every year.

Q: I don't care. So where are you going for a conference.

UND Fan: We're in a conference with minnesota, and wisconsin and we play them every year.

Q: The mid con seems kind of full, are you sure they'll want you?

UND Fan: Hockey.

Q: What? What are you even talking about.

UND Fan: The ralph is the best facility on the face of the planet. Hockey is played in it.

Q: Are you going to talk about anything besides hockey?

UND Fan: What? You want to talk about hockey? Did you know that UND has 7 national hockey championships?

UND Fan: Did you know that Jesus was the first hockey player?

Q: I don't think thats correct.

UND: Oh man you are so jealous of our championships. Get it over it, we're the best.

Q: I'm leaving.

UND Fan: HOOOOOCCCCKKKKEY.

So anybody want to talk about your move to D-I in other sports?

[aff]

Are you saying that it is your opinion that U of M and SDSU "manipulated" their numbers to show deficits in the hundreds of thousands of dollars because that is more favorable than their actual situation? That doesn't sound good.

The reason I used this site is because all institutions have to report their numbers to it, using certain criteria. It is the only source available, that I am aware of, that offers the information about every school in an objective manner, in which all schools must follow certain parameters while reporting. Unlike you, aff, I don't have access to all of these school's ledger books , so I feel that whether these numbers are "manipulated" or not, at least they are all reported following the same guidelines for each school. If you are more comfortable using the numbers from an SDSU press release and comparing it to the numbers you read in an article in USD's school newspaper writted by a sophomore journalism student and then taking those numbers and comparing them to the ones that NDSU has posted on the Equity in Athletics website, that's fine. Whatever floats your boat.

Oh, you must be refering to the numbers reported directly from the AD's mouths. I guess thats a bunch of crap though. We should go with the site that has five or six categories for all expenses. Those must all be the same way of reporting. Get your head out of the sand, its just as easy to manipulate those reports as it is to make up an entire budget. Those numbers are reported by the schools, nobody checks them, and that categories are vague enough that you can put whatever you want. They all aren't reported in the same manner as you claim.

So how about those questions? Are tuition waivers included on those reports? Those are obviously an athletic expense. So where are they on the report? What about one time facility upgrades? Are they there. Since you know those are all reported in the same manner, you must know if those are on the report or not. Or just ignore this and try and trash interviews with AD's reporting their own budgets. What do they know about athletics.

[aff]

Are you saying that it is your opinion that U of M and SDSU "manipulated" their numbers to show deficits in the hundreds of thousands of dollars because that is more favorable than their actual situation? That doesn't sound good.

The reason I used this site is because all institutions have to report their numbers to it, using certain criteria. It is the only source available, that I am aware of, that offers the information about every school in an objective manner, in which all schools must follow certain parameters while reporting. Unlike you, aff, I don't have access to all of these school's ledger books , so I feel that whether these numbers are "manipulated" or not, at least they are all reported following the same guidelines for each school. If you are more comfortable using the numbers from an SDSU press release and comparing it to the numbers you read in an article in USD's school newspaper writted by a sophomore journalism student and then taking those numbers and comparing them to the ones that NDSU has posted on the Equity in Athletics website, that's fine. Whatever floats your boat.

Yeah, and no, you don't like to use numbers from a press release and an interview with an AD. You like to use numbers that are over a year old as evidence that UND and USD aren't running a deficit this year. Wow.

[IowaBison]

i-bison, We shouldn't boast about the best hockey arena in college sports?

i don't think anyone should boast about anything.

the ralph is a phenomenal facility, no one has ever disputed that.

the catch is that it requires a lot of funding to maintain and host events there AND when looking at the books it seems that it isn't cash flowing, that's all that i posted.

[Riverman]

aff, What did I change the conversation to?

I asked questions and gave my opinion where I thought latitude lines are.

Did Jim change the board to I believe in all of what aff says is gospel board?

Go kick a puppy if you don't like the way this baord and it's fans react towards your questions.

I see links by other fans on this board to back up their stand on their view.

But for some reason aff you never do this.

Pretty easy to attack others isn't it..

Ok go ahead call me a name. Tell me how my opinion doesn't matter and yours does because I

don't agree with you.

In relation to the topic. IMHO believe UNO is making the right move. Complete the study and watch what others do and learn from others. There is no shame from learning.

Travel (learning) is fatal to predjudice, bigotry and narrowmindedness. Mark Twain

[Riverman]

i don't think anyone should boast about anything.

the ralph is a phenomenal facility, no one has ever disputed that.

the catch is that it requires a lot of funding to maintain and host events there AND when looking at the books it seems that it isn't cash flowing, that's all that i posted.

Ummm did UND take over the REA???

[jimdahl]

Anyone who read the title of this thread and came hoping to learn about about UNO's study would be sorely disappointed.

Bison / SDSU fans: You're welcome on this board to discuss UND's transition, but stop spamming every thread with your heartfelt concerns about UND's budget.