MidCon Conference Decision on Tuesday

[bincitysioux]

I don't think they could. I spent many hours last weekend trying to figure out the GWFC autobid situation and still got almost all of it wrong. I ended up talking to ralph from I-AA.org to get everything straightened out since he had spoken directly with the NCAA. (2010 if we can get an active member by 2008; 2014 if we have to wait for UND) Everytime I dig into those bylaws, I come out needing a cigarette and a drink - and I don't smoke and rarely imbibe.

So if the membership of the GWFC holds steady and UND joins, it'll have an autobid in UND's second year of post-season eligibility.

[rabidrabbit]

So if the membership of the GWFC holds steady and UND joins, it'll have an autobid in UND's second year of post-season eligibility.

Yes

[aff]

So if the membership of the GWFC holds steady and UND joins, it'll have an autobid in UND's second year of post-season eligibility.

No, that conference would ELIGIBLE for an autobid that year. They still have to get one from the governing body, which isn't at all a guaruntee.

[MplsBison]

But highly likely.

[aff]

But highly likely.

Says who? Do you have some past evidence of that, or are you just running your mouth about something you have no idea about. An at large bid will have to be taken away, and the other conferences will have to willingly give it away for this to occur. I guess if that is "highly likely" to you, than you should be excited.

[MplsBison]

No conference will freely give it away, but when you have the Great West as the 2nd ranked conference in terms of the GPI and conferences like the MEAC and OVC near the bottom, the GWFC deserves to have the autobid from one of those.

Just that simple.

Or expand the playoffs and give the Big South, Great West, Ivy League, and SWAC each a bid. That would be 12 autos and 24 team field.

[aff]

No conference will freely give it away, but when you have the Great West as the 2nd ranked conference in terms of the GPI and conferences like the MEAC and OVC near the bottom, the GWFC deserves to have the autobid from one of those.

Just that simple.

Or expand the playoffs and give the Big South, Great West, Ivy League, and SWAC each a bid. That would be 12 autos and 24 team field.

The SWAC and Ivy League both don't participate in post season play, and likely won't ever want to. The big south is in the same position as the great west in attempting to become eligible.

There is a big difference between "deserving" and "getting". Just because the Great West is ranked 2nd, or 1st for that matter, doesn't mean that other conferences are "forced" to give them an autobid. Is that fair? Nope. Is life fair? Nope. Welcome to the realities of transitioning to D-I.

[MplsBison]

Life is not fair, true.

There is talk in both the Ivy and SWAC camps about participating in the playoffs, so that much of your post is wrong.

I would very much like to see a 24 team field with the top 8 seeds getting byes the first week and 12 autos (to each of the main conferneces).

[Hammersmith]

There is talk in both the Ivy and SWAC camps about participating in the playoffs, so that much of your post is wrong.

I would very much like to see a 24 team field with the top 8 seeds getting byes the first week and 12 autos (to each of the main conferneces).

I'm sure there is always talk of those conferences joining the playoffs, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon. The SWAC is made up of mostly HBCUs and I doubt many of them are willing to give up their Classic games. The Ivy League would, most likely, have to start giving out athletic scholarships to be competitive in the playoffs and that would strip away one of the things that makes them unique. Possible, but I don't see it happening.

I have also thought about a 24 team field, but that would kill the push for a 12 game season. I suspect there is greater support among the I-AA schools for the longer regular season schedule (another potential I-A money game) than a longer playoff.

aff is completely correct about the fact that automatic qualification eligibility is not the same as getting an autobid. What makes things worse, for now, is that the committee that determines who gets the autobids each year is currently made up of one member from each the 8 autobid conferences. The best chance the GWFC has is in 2008 when one of the two West Region spots opens up (currently held by the AD from Sam Houston State (Southland)) and he gets replaced; perhaps by someone from Cal-Poly or SUU. The chances of that happening are very slim, but it's something. Also, this fall the spot held by the MEAC representive opens up. If she is replaced by a non-MEAC school, that might give us a better chance in the future(MEAC is argueably the weakest autobid conference).

And just for the record:

GWFC was the only non-autobid conference represented in the 2005 playoffs.

GWFC had a better playoff record(1-1) than MEAC(0-1), Ohio Valley(0-1), Patriot(0-2), and Big Sky (0-2).

Only Southern(6-2) and Gateway(4-2) had better winning percentages. (Atlantic 10 went (2-2))

Parity seems to be high; autobid recipents record vs. non-autobids = (8-7) vs. (7-8).

If the GWFC continues to get at large bids and keeps winning at least one game, it will be very hard to deny them an autobid when the MEAC teams(4-12 since 96; last win in 99) and Ohio Valley teams(1-13 since 96; last win in 96) keep getting knocked out in the first round. Still, it's politics, and logic rarely reigns supreme in that arena.

[MplsBison]

Hammer, thanks for the post.

I know the SWAC is black schools and I know that Southern and Grambling play a classic in New Orleans on national TV (NBC). I don't see why that should automatically exclude the other 10 teams in the conference. I think the Alabama schools (State and A&M) could do well along with Jackson State.

As for the Ivys, the reason they are not in the playoffs is purely academic, not competitive reasons. I put them right up with the Patriot. So anytime they're ready to play, they should get an autobid.

I also don't see a reason why both the 12 game season and the 24 playoff field can't happen.

The regular season is already 12 games long with the 4 game playoff going up to the weekend before Xmas week.

If they're worried about players not being home for Xmas, have the game the weekend after Xmas. No big deal.

[BisonMav]

I know the SWAC is black schools and I know that Southern and Grambling play a classic in New Orleans on national TV (NBC). I don't see why that should automatically exclude the other 10 teams in the conference. I think the Alabama schools (State and A&M) could do well along with Jackson State.

I agree the Ivy's would compete right away, Harvard has been a top 25 team as has Brown.

The SWAC plays it's championship game the same weekend as the I-AA playoffs. The Grambling/Southern Bayou Classic is a couple weeks prior to that.

[WYOBISONMAN]

well...you beat Wisconsin and we all know how far they went in the "big dance" last year

*PS - why did Valpo leave the mid-con???

I guess I haven't looked at this thread for a while.......but is amazes me how we can be having a legit discussion and then this dick head comes up with this silly bull$%!#. Come on Mr. Dahl.....let's have a little moderating here.

[Sioux-cia]

I guess I haven't looked at this thread for a while.......but is amazes me how we can be having a legit discussion and then this dick head comes up with this silly bull$%!#. Come on Mr. Dahl.....let's have a little moderating here.

Quit dredging up posts from days ago!! AND sir, this is a family forum, so I would suggest you edit your post!!! What SiouxMeNow, posted is pretty PG compared to your post. As someone who has gotten in a bit of trouble with our Admin, I'm not throwing stones but I can tell you that your complaint will have more credence if you didn't lace it with profanity and the post you're complaining about wasn't three days old!

You're on a SIOUX sports forum (I know it's hard to tell when you look at the number of Bison posters vs Sioux posters in the DI threads. ), so ya gotta know that you're going to get some flack from the opposition.

[jimdahl]

While the Mid-Continent Conference is close to piecing together its expansion puzzle, Southern Utah University is trying to figure out ...

But with the loss of Valpo, the league's flagship institution, and the possibility of several other schools jumping ship for greener pastures - UMKC and Oral Roberts have both made overtures to the Missouri Valley Conference and Centenary applied for membership in the Southland Conference just last year - the question that begs to be asked is this: Will the Mid-Con last for another 25 years and will SUU be a part of it?

Inviting Utah Valley State College in Orem to join the conference would be one possible solution, but the Mid-Con is hesitant to add another school so far from its Midwest roots.

"If for some reason we go to the Dakotas or IPFW and things don't fall into place or they elect to go elsewhere, then UVSC becomes more attractive."

And therein lies the rub. Despite the fact that almost every school in the Mid-Con has eyes on a prettier prom date, SUU's hopes for an in-state league rival will forever be shelved until their dreams of playing in the Big Sky Conference are permanently dashed.

But the T-Birds have been down this road before, applying to the Big Sky as recently as last year. Why would their chances of joining the conference be any better in 2006 than in 2005?

"Nine teams (is) awkward," said Big Sky Commissioner Doug Fullerton. "That means no travel partners and not having travel partners creates ugly travel."

While the T-Birds may look like the most obvious choice on paper, the allure of expanding to 12 teams by adding North Dakota State, South Dakota State and the $10 million-a-year athletic budget of the University of North Dakota might be too tempting for the Big Sky to pass up.

Adding UVSC would mean at least one other institution would need to be included to keep the conference [MidCon] at an even number, with the University of North Dakota, Southern Illinois University-Edwardsville (near St. Louis), the University of Arkansas at Little Rock and even Texas-Pan American all potential candidates.

[star2city]

While the Mid-Continent Conference is close to piecing together its expansion puzzle, Southern Utah University is trying to figure out ...

Still believe that before the end of this year the Big Sky will go after UND, NDSU, and Denver to make 12 teams.

After the Big Sky announces its expansion plans, the MidCon will have to scramble to add that 10th team. This would be the best chance for USD, Augies, or UNO. SIU-E is likely to declare DI intentions this fall, and they are an ideal candidate (close to St. Louis and fill a geographic hole). Doubt UALR would jump from the Sunbelt unless Arkansas State left for CUSA. Oklahoma City U would also get consideration.

[bincitysioux]

Still believe that before the end of this year the Big Sky will go after UND, NDSU, and Denver to make 12 teams.

After the Big Sky announces its expansion plans, the MidCon will have to scramble to add that 10th team. This would be the best chance for USD, Augies, or UNO. SIU-E is likely to declare DI intentions this fall, and they are an ideal candidate (close to St. Louis and fill a geographic hole). Doubt UALR would jump from the Sunbelt unless Arkansas State left for CUSA. Oklahoma City U would also get consideration.

While I like your thinking, star2city, I have come to the conclusion that the Big Sky is not an option until there is a shake-up that will involve Sac St., Portland St., and NAU exiting the conference. I don't see that happening in the next 10 years, much less within the next year.

My greatest hope is that we are Mid-Con bound by 2010, and I think that is a realistic best-case scenario.

[star2city]

While I like your thinking, star2city, I have come to the conclusion that the Big Sky is not an option until there is a shake-up that will involve Sac St., Portland St., and NAU exiting the conference. I don't see that happening in the next 10 years, much less within the next year.

My greatest hope is that we are Mid-Con bound by 2010, and I think that is a realistic best-case scenario.

Dare say the article in the Cedar City paper was the most informed piece on MidCon expansion to hit the press. The writer and his sources in the SUU athletic department almost certainly has better access to MidCon Commissioner Douple than anyone. Why would a Cedar City paper be concerned about UND to the Big Sky? This was not a fluff piece. Don't believe the "conventional" wisdom on message boards. The next most logical candidates for the MidCon are SIU-Edwardsville and/or a DI core member. UND will not be in the next round of MidCon expansions. The Big Sky is really the only option for UND - it is going to happen - otherwise UND will be in major trouble with the DI move.

[IowaBison]

I agree completely with bincity. I also think that NDSU will be in the Mid-Con by the end of the year, ie they won't be going to the Big Sky.

After the Big Sky meeting in May, the President of Montana stated that they were looking at schools that sponsor all sports only, pretty much eliminating the Pioneers from contention.

[star2city]

I also think that NDSU will be in the Mid-Con by the end of the year, ie they won't be going to the Big Sky.

After the Big Sky meeting in May, the President of Montana stated that they were looking at schools that sponsor all sports only, pretty much eliminating the Pioneers from contention.

An example of conventional thinking.

[IowaBison]

An example of conventional thinking.

Are you calling Pres. Dennison a liar?

I don't blame you too much if think there is home for a North Dakota school in the Big Sky, but as a Bison fan that has heard a lot of talk about the Big Sky in the past five years I don't believe much of what is said.

[bincitysioux]

The next most logical candidates for the MidCon are SIU-Edwardsville and/or a DI core member. UND will not be in the next round of MidCon expansions. The Big Sky is really the only option for UND - it is going to happen - otherwise UND will be in major trouble with the DI move.

While deep deep down I hope you're right about the Big Sky (it is my first choice as a conference to join), I really really hope even more that you are wrong about your opinion of the Mid-Con, because that is the most realistic place to hope for UND athletics to end up.

Geography seems to be extremlely important to the Big Sky. UND is not in the footprint of the Big Sky. Geography seems to be somewhat less important to the Mid-Con, but it is still important for obvious reasons. NDSU & SDSU admission to the Mid-Con is a huge step in the right direction for UND, becauses it places UND within the Mid-Con footprint.

Joining the Mid-Con-controlled Great West will establish ties to the Mid-Con right away. Another thing that could work in UND's favor in establishing ties with the Mid-Con as soon as we start the transition is swimming & diving. When Valparaiso leaves after 2006-07, that will leave the Mid-Con with only six schools that sponsor the sport. SDSU is already an affiliate member, and NDSU & IPFW do not have swimming & diving. With UND's strong tradition in swimming & diving, the ability to make those two sports playoff eligible in two years rather than five, and close proximity to a current Mid-Con swimming & diving school (SDSU), I feel there would be compelling reasons for the Mid-Con to admit UND as affiliate members in swimming & diving from the get-go.

The two current members left of the Mid-Con that have been most vocal about wanting into a different conferene are Southern Utah & Centenary. If both were to for some reason leave at the same time in the near future, I agree that UND wouldn't be an option because of "core" issues. But I think one of them could go and UND would still be in play because of NDSU & SDSU presence (remember the bigger footprint), and because of GWFC and Swimming & Diving affiliation. If Centenary left first, UND would be a virtual lock IMO, concentrating the bulk of membership in the Upper Midwest.

I don't necessarily feel that a school needs to leave the Mid-Con either before UND gets a look. With no football they could easily have 11, 12, even 13 or 14 schools if they wanted. For a historically unstable conference that has a high rate of turnover (22 members in 25 years), there is something to be said for "strength in numbers". Judging from history though, by 2009-2010 when UND is a DI "counter", I feel that the odds are pretty favorable that the Mid-Con could be looking for members again.

I feel that after looking at past Big Sky expansion patterns, SUU will become a member long before any school from the Dakotas does.

[Riverman]

bincitysioux, I am with you in the hope that UND ends up in the BSC.

I am sure some fan from the opposition will put me in my place.

Isn't it interesting that a writer from another part of the country has an interest in UND and it's budget of 10 million Ok 9.9 Million.

the $10 million-a-year athletic budget of the University of North Dakota might be too tempting for the Big Sky to pass up.

I would think USD would like to hitch the wagon and ride but with their current budget at 4.5 million might be a stretch for them IMHO.

UNO on the other hand at 6.5 million would look pretty good to some people. (source GF Herald 7/9/06)

UNO seems to be pushing fast for a decision before school starts. UNO as a travel partner is a stretch I admit

but they seem to mirror UND pretty well IMHO. And they play that H-word in the CCHA. Look at the travel they do Alaska, Ohio, Michigan they must have a pretty good idea of how to run a budget.

There are bus lines and in the old days of the NCC this wasn't a bad trip....

No I don't think that UND is a shoe in to the BSC. I REPEAT I DO NOT THINK UND IS A SHOE IN TO THE BSC!!!!!!

But it doesn't hurt or cost any $$$ to dream either.

[aff]

bincitysioux, I am with you in the hope that UND ends up in the BSC.

I am sure some fan from the opposition will put me in my place.

Isn't it interesting that a writer from another part of the country has an interest in UND and it's budget of 10 million Ok 9.9 Million.

I would think USD would like to hitch the wagon and ride but with their current budget at 4.5 million might be a stretch for them IMHO.

UNO on the other hand at 6.5 million would look pretty good to some people. (source GF Herald 7/9/06)

UNO seems to be pushing fast for a decision before school starts. UNO as a travel partner is a stretch I admit

but they seem to mirror UND pretty well IMHO. And they play that H-word in the CCHA. Look at the travel they do Alaska, Ohio, Michigan they must have a pretty good idea of how to run a budget.

There are bus lines and in the old days of the NCC this wasn't a bad trip....

No I don't think that UND is a shoe in to the BSC. I REPEAT I DO NOT THINK UND IS A SHOE IN TO THE BSC!!!!!!

But it doesn't hurt or cost any $$$ to dream either.

Refer to the D-I budget thread, I have posted an article that is relevant to this post.

[WYOBISONMAN]

No one would love to see NDSU in the Big Sky more than me, but it isn't going to happen. The best bet for NDSU will be the GWFC and MidCon.........and with the MidCon having the BB autobid, that is great. Clearly UND's future is tied closely to NDSU and the GWFC/MidCon.........as for the Sky........no one would be more shocked than me if they did an about face and took the Bison...........

[rabidrabbit]

While deep deep down I hope you're right about the Big Sky (it is my first choice as a conference to join), I really really hope even more that you are wrong about your opinion of the Mid-Con, because that is the most realistic place to hope for UND athletics to end up.

Geography seems to be extremlely important to the Big Sky. UND is not in the footprint of the Big Sky. Geography seems to be somewhat less important to the Mid-Con, but it is still important for obvious reasons. NDSU & SDSU admission to the Mid-Con is a huge step in the right direction for UND, becauses it places UND within the Mid-Con footprint.

Joining the Mid-Con-controlled Great West will establish ties to the Mid-Con right away. Another thing that could work in UND's favor in establishing ties with the Mid-Con as soon as we start the transition is swimming & diving. When Valparaiso leaves after 2006-07, that will leave the Mid-Con with only six schools that sponsor the sport. SDSU is already an affiliate member, and NDSU & IPFW do not have swimming & diving. With UND's strong tradition in swimming & diving, the ability to make those two sports playoff eligible in two years rather than five, and close proximity to a current Mid-Con swimming & diving school (SDSU), I feel there would be compelling reasons for the Mid-Con to admit UND as affiliate members in swimming & diving from the get-go.

The two current members left of the Mid-Con that have been most vocal about wanting into a different conferene are Southern Utah & Centenary. If both were to for some reason leave at the same time in the near future, I agree that UND wouldn't be an option because of "core" issues. But I think one of them could go and UND would still be in play because of NDSU & SDSU presence (remember the bigger footprint), and because of GWFC and Swimming & Diving affiliation. If Centenary left first, UND would be a virtual lock IMO, concentrating the bulk of membership in the Upper Midwest.

I don't necessarily feel that a school needs to leave the Mid-Con either before UND gets a look. With no football they could easily have 11, 12, even 13 or 14 schools if they wanted. For a historically unstable conference that has a high rate of turnover (22 members in 25 years), there is something to be said for "strength in numbers". Judging from history though, by 2009-2010 when UND is a DI "counter", I feel that the odds are pretty favorable that the Mid-Con could be looking for members again.

I feel that after looking at past Big Sky expansion patterns, SUU will become a member long before any school from the Dakotas does.

Bin - Copy this and supply to the athletic powers at UND. You are spelling out what is likely a successful path to Mid-Con membership. I, and likely Filbert & 89rabbit, are hoping that the Mid-con gets settled into the upper midwest via S/NDSU, and as the NCC creeps up that there is room made for those "creeps" .

BTW, I think that getting rid of baseball, and enjoying LaCrosse up there fits your hockey image better. Yes, I know that the Mid-con is a baseball strong conference, but all the more reason as a nearly Canadian school to not try to be winning that battle. Enjoy the football dome for another season each year.

Work them books! This Rabbit is looking forward to games/matches in the future vs UND