Big Sky Presidents Meet on May 23rd

[CDog]

You seem to be the one getting upset, not me. I think it is valid to point out that there has been a great deal of speculation about there being some sort of deal in place to bring UND into the Big Sky, for instance, and that that deal probably did not exist outside of the imaginations of those who may have wished that it was true. Do you disagree?

Yes, I disagree. You said UND fans were trumpeting secret meetings. That didn't happen. A blanket accusation that you can back up with any kind of facts.

[DI IN FARGO]

[Bigears]

Yes, I disagree. You said UND fans were trumpeting secret meetings. That didn't happen. A blanket accusation that you can back up with any kind of facts.

No, I'm not going to do any research to "prove" that those exact words where used. If they weren't, I apologize for my mistake. I still think I had a valid point, but I'll accept your correction. Do you accept that UND will probably not be able to transition to DI, if that's what they decide to do, without following essentially the same route as NDSU and SDSU? That is, declaring their intentions before having permanent conference affiliation for all sports?

[CDog]

No, I'm not going to do any research to "prove" that those exact words where used. If they weren't, I apologize for my mistake. I still think I had a valid point, but I'll accept your correction. Do you accept that UND will probably not be able to transition to DI, if that's what they decide to do, without following essentially the same route as NDSU and SDSU? That is, declaring their intentions before having permanent conference affiliation for all sports?

I agree with that. I think UND will have to declare their intentions before being granted permanent conference affiliation.

[DI IN FARGO]

I agree with that. I think UND will have to declare their intentions before being granted permanent conference affiliation.

Not only will they have to declare but be along into the transition. For a conference to be interested you will not only have to declare but have some time into the transition. You may get some interest just as NDSU and SDSU did but look what happened and the reason given at the time or at least one of the reasons. Being 4 or 5 years out until your playoff eligible hurts when looking for a conference.

[star2city]

I think that may be wishful thinking on your part. For starters the Big Sky has continually said no to SUU.

My point on SUU is that the MidCon's autobid is one or two schools closer to becoming tenuous: Centenary could drop athletics or Western Illinois could join the Ohio Valley. NDSU and SDSU are of no value to the MidCon until 2008-9. IPFW and UTPA are the only immediate options.

Second the Big Sky does not have to make a move at all if they didn't want to and they have shown that propensity in the past. To force the schools to deal with a 9 team league wouldn't suprise me at all. They can sit on the sidelines and just wait and see what happens after the dust settles.

The Horizon going to 10 schools shows that it is positioning itself for what is likely to another major wave of conference shifts that will likely happen around 2009-10, when the Big East splits. For the Big Sky, nine isn't a safe number when the WAC begins to poach it. The Sky needs to have 10 for insurance, and 12 isn't fantasy talk.

What seems lost in all this talk by NDSU and SDSU fans is: What is your next planned step (i.e. ideal terminal conference)? For NDSU, it is likely to be the WAC. If that is NDSU's long-term goal, joining the MidCon makes absolutely no sense if the Big Sky is offering. For SDSU, the Missouri Valley is probably their ideal. The MidCon would make more sense for them.

[Cratter]

If I were NDSU, I'd do everything and try NOT to get into the MidCon. You'd be essentially letting your basketball program direct all your other sports because it doesn't offer football. NDSU football, your pride and joy, would be stuck in the Great West Football Conference, which has already lost members and is in dier need of more. Not to mention the MidCon has far less "Name Schools" as its members compared to the Big Sky.

[MplsBison]

NDSU needs to go to the Big Sky.

Plain and simple.

Accepting the Mid Con is not good enough.

[aff]

NDSU needs to go to the Big Sky.

Plain and simple.

Accepting the Mid Con is not good enough.

Too bad your not in a position of authority. You could explain to fans why eight years from now you still haven't seen the post season in anything. I think you need to remember that there's not really anything holding the SU's in the midcon if they accept. It would actually put them in a better position for the big sky.

[aff]

My point on SUU is that the MidCon's autobid is one or two schools closer to becoming tenuous: Centenary could drop athletics or Western Illinois could join the Ohio Valley. NDSU and SDSU are of no value to the MidCon until 2008-9. IPFW and UTPA are the only immediate options.

The Horizon going to 10 schools shows that it is positioning itself for what is likely to another major wave of conference shifts that will likely happen around 2009-10, when the Big East splits. For the Big Sky, nine isn't a safe number when the WAC begins to poach it. The Sky needs to have 10 for insurance, and 12 isn't fantasy talk.

What seems lost in all this talk by NDSU and SDSU fans is: What is your next planned step (i.e. ideal terminal conference)? For NDSU, it is likely to be the WAC. If that is NDSU's long-term goal, joining the MidCon makes absolutely no sense if the Big Sky is offering. For SDSU, the Missouri Valley is probably their ideal. The MidCon would make more sense for them.

First off, NDSU in the WAC is about 50 years away, and for anybody to say otherwise is foolish. Second, I think a missouri valley/gateway combo would be just as appealing for NDSU, and probably more. They could have a regional rivalry with UNI, and SDSU if they were both in, and the conference is just as competitive as the Big Sky. It also affords them the same "chance" to get in the WAC as the big sky would. I seriously don't see Hawaii wanting to travel to Fargo anytime soon though.

[star2city]

First off, NDSU in the WAC is about 50 years away, and for anybody to say otherwise is foolish. Second, I think a missouri valley/gateway combo would be just as appealing for NDSU, and probably more. They could have a regional rivalry with UNI, and SDSU if they were both in, and the conference is just as competitive as the Big Sky. It also affords them the same "chance" to get in the WAC as the big sky would. I seriously don't see Hawaii wanting to travel to Fargo anytime soon though.

The size of the Fargodome is NDSU's "in" to the WAC, if the WAC needs more teams (like four or five more within a decade). SDSU just isn't that appealing for the MoValley (too small of a TV market) - especially with other schools like UMKC, ORU, Denver, and UALR wanting entrance. SDSU has to win in DI basketball to get entrance into the MoValley, while NDSU only really has to come up with the money for a IA football program. IMO, NDSU in the WAC is more likely to occur (albeit at least 10 years away) before SDSU gets in the MoValley.

Now if UND could expand the Alerus to more than 15,000 seats ....

[aff]

The size of the Fargodome is NDSU's "in" to the WAC, if the WAC needs more teams (like four or five more within a decade). SDSU just isn't that appealing for the MoValley (too small of a TV market) - especially with other schools like UMKC, ORU, Denver, and UALR wanting entrance. SDSU has to win in DI basketball to get entrance into the MoValley, while NDSU only really has to come up with the money for a IA football program. IMO, NDSU in the WAC is more likely to occur (albeit at least 10 years away) before SDSU gets in the MoValley.

Now if UND could expand the Alerus to more than 15,000 seats ....

Sac State, UC Davis, Montana, Montana State, and possibly several other big sky schools would all be more attractive to the WAC than NDSU. It's in Fargo. You don't think those schools are tired of the travel bills? You really think Hawaii is going to be anxious to play in the Fargo dome in November? Facilities are nice, but I'm pretty sure NDSU is going to have to have to do a lot more than show the fargo dome to get into that conference. Yeah, and UND having 15000 seats definitely isn't going to put them in the WAC either. You act like the facilities in North Dakota are made out of gold. You were positive the REA would put UND in the big sky. Look what it got you... nothing. For having such a great guaruntee of a facility, the mid con, that is apparently so terrible that neither school will even look at it, won't even consider you. Its almost like some conferences actually have other criteria besides facilities. Sometimes I think that they have a range of criteria they use. I mean what else could there be? Some of the stuff I've come up with, and I know this sounds idiotic, but here me out, are school profile, student population, competitive history, NCAA compliance, level of scholarships, total athletic budget, location etc. I know that not all of those benefit UND, so they obviously must not count for anything then. I mean, if mighty UND doesn't have this stuff, then it must be worthless. The logic can't be wrong, UND has nice facilities, so thats all conferences look for.

I'll take comfort in knowing that I'll be long dead before NDSU even sniffs the WAC.

[aff]

The size of the Fargodome is NDSU's "in" to the WAC, if the WAC needs more teams (like four or five more within a decade). SDSU just isn't that appealing for the MoValley (too small of a TV market) - especially with other schools like UMKC, ORU, Denver, and UALR wanting entrance. SDSU has to win in DI basketball to get entrance into the MoValley, while NDSU only really has to come up with the money for a IA football program. IMO, NDSU in the WAC is more likely to occur (albeit at least 10 years away) before SDSU gets in the MoValley.

Now if UND could expand the Alerus to more than 15,000 seats ....

Yeah, and not to defend SDSU too much here, since I apparently have a reputation as a big SDSU fan, but TV market? Give me a break. UNI was just added a few years ago. SDSU has ten times the media market in Sioux Falls that UNI has after you get done with Iowa and Iowa State. Theres no doubt any team has to win to be in that conference, but don't tell me after they added UNI that any school has too small of a media market.

And UMKC and Oakland? Yeah, I'm sure that Creighton is dying to get schools of that caliber associated with themselves. Its not every day you can trash your academic reputation by associating with a commuter school.

[WYOBISONMAN]

If I were NDSU, I'd do everything and try NOT to get into the MidCon. You'd be essentially letting your basketball program direct all your other sports because it doesn't offer football. NDSU football, your pride and joy, would be stuck in the Great West Football Conference, which has already lost members and is in dier need of more. Not to mention the MidCon has far less "Name Schools" as its members compared to the Big Sky.

Much as it pains me to agree with a UND guy.........you are right.....

[aff]

Much as it pains me to agree with a UND guy.........you are right.....

I'm sorry but until someone shows me an article where it says the Big Sky is definitely expanding, I'm going to view comments like this as the ultimate arrogance. You are and independent. You take what you can get, and THEN try for something better. You're two years from being tournament eligible. Any conference that wants you is a gift. NDSU fans seem to have turned this whole thing into them having a choice of conferences, which is laughable. I'm getting a pretty long list of people I'm going to mock in around two weeks going right now, and you just added yourself wyobisonman.

[star2city]

Sac State, UC Davis, Montana, Montana State, and possibly several other big sky schools would all be more attractive to the WAC than NDSU. It's in Fargo. You don't think those schools are tired of the travel bills? You really think Hawaii is going to be anxious to play in the Fargo dome in November? Facilities are nice, but I'm pretty sure NDSU is going to have to have to do a lot more than show the fargo dome to get into that conference. Yeah, and UND having 15000 seats definitely isn't going to put them in the WAC either. You act like the facilities in North Dakota are made out of gold. You were positive the REA would put UND in the big sky. Look what it got you... nothing. For having such a great guaruntee of a facility, the mid con, that is apparently so terrible that neither school will even look at it, won't even consider you. Its almost like some conferences actually have other criteria besides facilities. Sometimes I think that they have a range of criteria they use. I mean what else could there be? Some of the stuff I've come up with, and I know this sounds idiotic, but here me out, are school profile, student population, competitive history, NCAA compliance, level of scholarships, total athletic budget, location etc. I know that not all of those benefit UND, so they obviously must not count for anything then. I mean, if mighty UND doesn't have this stuff, then it must be worthless. The logic can't be wrong, UND has nice facilities, so thats all conferences look for.

BTW, have the Big Sky Presidents already met and nothing came of it?

I'll take comfort in knowing that I'll be long dead before NDSU even sniffs the WAC.

Aff, I'm definitely no big fan of NDSU athletics, but don't wish yourself an early grave.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I'm getting a pretty long list of people I'm going to mock in around two weeks going right now, and you just added yourself wyobisonman.

And I am supposed to give a sh1t? Bottom line is that that conferences will be looking and right now NDSU is one of the hottest dates to the Prom......

[star2city]

I'm sorry but until someone shows me an article where it says the Big Sky is definitely expanding, I'm going to view comments like this as the ultimate arrogance. You are and independent. You take what you can get, and THEN try for something better. You're two years from being tournament eligible. Any conference that wants you is a gift. NDSU fans seem to have turned this whole thing into them having a choice of conferences, which is laughable. I'm getting a pretty long list of people I'm going to mock in around two weeks going right now, and you just added yourself wyobisonman.

Aff:

Chill out a little, AFF. Hate to think what will happen when you're proven wrong!

[BisonMav]

And I am supposed to give a sh1t? Bottom line is that that conferences will be looking and right now NDSU is one of the hottest dates to the Prom......

"Generally speaking, you should dance with the girl that brung you"

[rabidrabbit]

Simple observations (not trying to start nothin'):

Based on what UND sponsors today (except for M/W hockey),

- in womens sports,

--it exactly matches the Mid-Continent offerings

- in mens sports,

-- UND offers football, Mid-Con does not

-- Mid-Con offers soccer and tennis, UND does not

Mid-con membership by BOTH of the SU's is very beneficial to UND to declare now, go through your last 2 NCC years, and be in a position to join in toward the end of transition years. Seriously, both conference commissioners are telling you..."declare, get into transition, and when you're play-off compatible, we'll be happy to have you. As unstable as the Mid-con is, there is very likely to be a home for you there. And already being a football member, (GWFC) could be faster.

[FargoBison]

Sac State, UC Davis, Montana, Montana State, and possibly several other big sky schools would all be more attractive to the WAC than NDSU. It's in Fargo. You don't think those schools are tired of the travel bills? You really think Hawaii is going to be anxious to play in the Fargo dome in November? Facilities are nice, but I'm pretty sure NDSU is going to have to have to do a lot more than show the fargo dome to get into that conference. Yeah, and UND having 15000 seats definitely isn't going to put them in the WAC either. You act like the facilities in North Dakota are made out of gold. You were positive the REA would put UND in the big sky. Look what it got you... nothing. For having such a great guaruntee of a facility, the mid con, that is apparently so terrible that neither school will even look at it, won't even consider you. Its almost like some conferences actually have other criteria besides facilities. Sometimes I think that they have a range of criteria they use. I mean what else could there be? Some of the stuff I've come up with, and I know this sounds idiotic, but here me out, are school profile, student population, competitive history, NCAA compliance, level of scholarships, total athletic budget, location etc. I know that not all of those benefit UND, so they obviously must not count for anything then. I mean, if mighty UND doesn't have this stuff, then it must be worthless. The logic can't be wrong, UND has nice facilities, so thats all conferences look for.

I'll take comfort in knowing that I'll be long dead before NDSU even sniffs the WAC.

I hate to break it to you aff but it is probably almost easier to fly into Fargo then it is Bozeman or Missoula. NDSU has a great football tradition and Admin. that is definately not shy about taking chances, I wouldn't exactly rule out IA and the WAC for NDSU. NDSU academics, athletics, and fan support could make the WAC a possiblity at some point, the only way any SU gets into the MVC is if the conference loses schools(they are very happy with their current 10 school format). Right now NDSU has a better shot at the WAC then either SU has at the MVC.

I also have to say that some of Aff's posts do sound similar to 89rabbits, aff does sound a lot like an SDSU backer at the very least.

[aff]

I hate to break it to you aff but it is probably almost easier to fly into Fargo then it is Bozeman or Missoula. NDSU has a great football tradition and Admin. that is definately not shy about taking chances, I wouldn't exactly rule out IA and the WAC for NDSU. NDSU academics, athletics, and fan support could make the WAC a possiblity at some point, the only way any SU gets into the MVC is if the conference loses schools(they are very happy with their current 10 school format). Right now NDSU has a better shot at the WAC then either SU has at the MVC.

I also have to say that some of Aff's posts do sound similar to 89rabbits, aff does sound a lot like an SDSU backer at the very least.

Thanks for "breaking it to me". Too bad you didn't address a single point I made. I don't remember talking about NDSU academics, or fan support. I know that everyone in Fargo thinks that Fargo is the best thing since sliced bread, but do you seriously know how it is percieved around the country? Do you think Hawaii's president is going to think "NDSU in fargo, I heard they had direct flights from Delta coming in, what a great place to get to". NO, he's going to say "FARGO, !@$!, isn't that on the north pole? No way in he!! am I going to be sending my teams there every season". You guys are dreaming a pipe dream in ND right now. Do you really think that NDSU, three years removed from the NCC is a WAC team? Come on, I bet Minnesota mankato had no idea that they were playing a WAC team three years ago. This whole conversation is a joke.

And, believe it or not, the MVC isn't actually immortal. Some teams may actually leave the conference. Its known to happen in "college athletics" every so often. I'm definitely SDSU's biggest fan though. I mean I must be to have the completely rediculous idea of a former NCC basketball school joining other former NCC basketball schools in the same conference. Completely ludicrous, I know. I mean what does SDSU have in common with UNI? No way those two are the same level any time soon.

Did you guys ever consider that I am an actual fan that isn't biased, and that maybe, just maybe, you have a warped view of reality toward SDSU? I seriously am not a fan of the school, but they way you guys talk about it, I would think there is a dump right in brookings that some guys play sports at sometimes. Hate to break it to you Fargo Bison, but NDSU and SDSU are pretty much the same school, except one has a nicer basketball facility, and one has a nicer football facility.

[FargoBison]

Did I ever call Fargo some great place? No, all I said that is probably easier to fly into Fargo then it is Missoula or Bozeman(dont' see why that veiw seems so crazy to you). If Hawaii is worried about their travel budget then Sac St or UC Davis is an obvious choice due to them being in California. All I said is that NDSU fan support, academics, and commitment to athletics make the WAC a reasonable long term goal. I'm not saying the WAC is going to add NDSU right now or next year, I'm talking long term.

The MVC isn't immortal but with it's current power in hoops they are going to be very picky about who they add. When UNI was added getting an invite wasn't half as tough, if the MVC wants a qaulity hoops school all they have to do is poach from the Horizon or perhaps St. Louis from the A10.

I also never said that NDSU was any better then SDSU, I have and always will have plenty of respect for SDSU. But I do think both schools favor different things(NDSU=Big Sky and WAC, SDSU=Mid-Con and MVC).

Your first post was about SDSU and most of your posts since then are, that definately makes it seem like you are an SDSU backer. It's not like it's a bad thing your an SDSU fan and your doing a poor job at hiding it.

[Cratter]

As unstable as the Mid-con is, there is very likely to be a home for you there. And already being a football member, (GWFC) could be faster.

I'd rather be an NCC Division 2 Member.

[WYOBISONMAN]

I'd rather be an NCC Division 2 Member.

.......and that works too......just a matter of personal preference......but, as a Bison Fan........I personally would love a clash between DI NDSU and DI UND......it would be a classic!