Potential Head Men's Basketball Coaches

[UND92,96]

Since the season is over, anyone care if I bring it back to the top? Good. Are there any sleepers out there that would be a good fit for the program? High school coaches? Juco coaches? Local small college coaches? Anyone? Bueller? ... Is this thing on?

Of current local or formerly local coaches, you have to look at Craig Smith, Craig Irwin and Brad Huse. I'm not aware of anybody else who would be as good or better of a candidate locally. I'm hearing rumblings that Margenthaler from Mankato may be headed to a division I job (Idaho St?), so another good job may be opening which will attract attention from most of the same people who would apply for the UND position should it open up within the next few weeks.

[SportsDoc]

Current coach of NDSCS Craig Irwin will get an interview for sure. He finished 7th in the country last year going 28-7 and has averaged 28 wins a year for his six years at NDSCS and has had them ranked every year. He is what is keeping NDSU in talent and the UND coaches seem to follow him around recruiting many of his players, like 6'10 Tom Dryburgh from Fordville. He also had two very successful seasons at MSU-Bottineau and is roebucks

' nephew.

If you want to go for JUCO coach with great credentials and almost 400 wins, plus a quality person to spearhead your program, don't look at Irwin. Look at Terry Olson at Williston State. Unbelievable recruiter to top it off.

Oh, and no one has had two mediocre seasons at MSU-B in the past twenty years, let alone very successful ones!

[UND92,96]

Time to bump this topic back up to the top.

[spfreak]

Somebody please tell me that Buning won't hire Herbst. I am concerned that Buning will screw the program up even more by staying in house and hiring the assistant. That would almost be worse than Glas staying. I don't have any inside info and I don't know what the likelihood would be of this happening, but I am concerned. Talk me down off of the ledge please.

[Sioux-per Fan]

Somebody please tell me that Buning won't hire Herbst. I am concerned that Buning will screw the program up even more by staying in house and hiring the assistant. That would almost be worse than Glas staying. I don't have any inside info and I don't know what the likelihood would be of this happening, but I am concerned. Talk me down off of the ledge please.

GO AHEAD AND JUMP !

I do not trust Bunning..?

[UND92,96]

Somebody please tell me that Buning won't hire Herbst. I am concerned that Buning will screw the program up even more by staying in house and hiring the assistant. That would almost be worse than Glas staying. I don't have any inside info and I don't know what the likelihood would be of this happening, but I am concerned. Talk me down off of the ledge please.

If Buning actually promotes Herbst, I'll be right out there on the ledge with you. I can't say for certain that Craig Smith is the BEST possible candidate, but he's far and away better than Herbst. What Smith has done at Mayville is almost miraculous. Herbst, on the other hand, hasn't shown me anything. And let's not forget that Rich wasn't all by himself on the bench during those losses to UMC, Minot State, Mary, Mayville State, etc.

[spfreak]

I am just concerned because Richie won't have been fired. If he had been fired, then the assistant would most likely be fired as well. But because he wasn't I am worried that Buning will just take the easy way out and promote Herbst.

[UND92,96]

I am just concerned because Richie won't have been fired. If he had been fired, then the assistant would most likely be fired as well. But because he wasn't I am worried that Buning will just take the easy way out and promote Herbst.

I've neither spoken to nor corresponded with Buning before now, but I have sent him an e-mail urging him to look outside the program for Rich's successor. I hope other basketball fans consider doing the same.

[UND96]

All I know is that UND's mens hoops team has been in decline, AND lost a game this winter to Mayville (coached by Craig Smith) where UND's only lead was 2-0. If the UND job opens, Coach Smith has to be a serious consideration, look at what he has done in Mayville, and think about what he could do at UND, given the financial resources and facilities...just a thought, but a very serious one.

[Corella]

A couple of things to keep in mind here,

1) Before anyone condemns Randall Herbst as the next head coach, does anyone know his how he will coach both offensively and defensively?? His philosophies are completely different then that of Rich Glas, and it is obvious that that is exactly what everyone wants.

2) Since it seems convenient for some to assume Coach Herbst is not a good coach because of track record as an assistant, what was Craig Smith's track record as an assistant? When he was at Minot State they were one of the worst NAIA prgrams in the country.

3) National signing day is Wednesday. In addition to the 2 verbals from Dryburgh and Kruse, UND is in position to sign 3 and perhaps 4 more players. If a new staff is brought in, Dryburgh and Kruse may honor their commitments, the other players that the Sioux have a great shot at landing over some of the top D2 teams in the region and country WILL NOT be in Sioux uniforms next year. Recruiting would obviously take a huge hit and need to be literally started over again.

I have no problem saying that I think Coach Herbst should be given a shot. He has paid his dues here and him and the other staff, if promoted accordingly, have a group of recruits in place that can turn the program around immediately. Most want a new regime, but that is actually exactly what Herbst would represent. He stands for pressure defense with the willingness to play zone, something fans have noted angrily that Glas would not. Offensively, the fans would not be seeing the same set of plays we have become used to seeing. Full-court pressure would be there, all in all, there would be a more progressive style of play that we as fans are seeing from most other teams accross the country, regardless of level. Not to mention the fact that the players themselves want Coach Herbst to be the next head coach.

[UND92,96]

A couple of things to keep in mind here,

1) Before anyone condemns Randall Herbst as the next head coach, does anyone know his how he will coach both offensively and defensively?? His philosophies are completely different then that of Rich Glas, and it is obvious that that is exactly what everyone wants.

2) Since it seems convenient for some to assume Coach Herbst is not a good coach because of track record as an assistant, what was Craig Smith's track record as an assistant? When he was at Minot State they were one of the worst NAIA prgrams in the country.

The flip side is, we KNOW Smith can win as a head coach at a school where it is extremely difficult to win. His record there, albeit brief, speaks for itself. With Herbst, while it's possible he could be better than Rich was, it's a complete unknown. Herbst was moderately successful as a juco head coach, and he's been moderately successful (at best) as an assistant, regardless of whether you judge him by his recruiting or by the record UND has accumulated during his tenure.

3) National signing day is Wednesday. In addition to the 2 verbals from Dryburgh and Kruse, UND is in position to sign 3 and perhaps 4 more players. If a new staff is brought in, Dryburgh and Kruse may honor their commitments, the other players that the Sioux have a great shot at landing over some of the top D2 teams in the region and country WILL NOT be in Sioux uniforms next year. Recruiting would obviously take a huge hit and need to be literally started over again.

I agree that recruiting will take a big hit, but that alone is not enough of a reason to simply promote the next guy in line. Objectively, anybody would have to admit that UND men's basketball has been, at most, moderately successful the past decade. Under those circumstances, hiring from within would be unusual, if not potentially foolish.

I have no problem saying that I think Coach Herbst should be given a shot. He has paid his dues here and him and the other staff, if promoted accordingly, have a group of recruits in place that can turn the program around immediately. Most want a new regime, but that is actually exactly what Herbst would represent. He stands for pressure defense with the willingness to play zone, something fans have noted angrily that Glas would not. Offensively, the fans would not be seeing the same set of plays we have become used to seeing. Full-court pressure would be there, all in all, there would be a more progressive style of play that we as fans are seeing from most other teams accross the country, regardless of level. Not to mention the fact that the players themselves want Coach Herbst to be the next head coach.

I can respect a difference of opinion, but the UND men's basketball program already has a major problem in that most of the fans no longer care. We need new blood, completely untainted by the string of embarrassing losses that have occurred during the Glas/Herbst era, in order to get people excited again. Regardless of whether it's Smith or not, I really want somebody from the outside to be the next coach. I strongly suspect that most of the 80-plus% of fans who wanted Rich to leave would agree. I believe hiring Herbst would be potentially the worst UND coaching hire, in terms of hiring from within, since Pat Behrns took over for Gene Murphy.

[legend334]

The flip side is, we KNOW Smith can win as a head coach at a school where it is extremely difficult to win. His record there, albeit brief, speaks for itself. With Herbst, while it's possible he could be better than Rich was, it's a complete unknown. Herbst was moderately successful as a juco head coach, and he's been moderately successful (at best) as an assistant.

Using your own logic, how can you condem a assistant coach for their record??? Foolish argument!

[sioux goo]

Not to mention the fact that the players themselves want Coach Herbst to be the next head coach.

So he is solicitating the players approval?? Not understanding that statement at all.

[franklin]

The flip side is, we KNOW Smith can win as a head coach at a school where it is extremely difficult to win. His record there, albeit brief, speaks for itself. With Herbst, while it's possible he could be better than Rich was, it's a complete unknown. Herbst was moderately successful as a juco head coach, and he's been moderately successful (at best) as an assistant, regardless of whether you judge him by his recruiting or by the record UND has accumulated during his tenure.

I agree that recruiting will take a big hit, but that alone is not enough of a reason to simply promote the next guy in line. Objectively, anybody would have to admit that UND men's basketball has been, at most, moderately successful the past decade. Under those circumstances, hiring from within would be unusual, if not potentially foolish.

I can respect a difference of opinion, but the UND men's basketball program already has a major problem in that most of the fans no longer care. We need new blood, completely untainted by the string of embarrassing losses that have occurred during the Glas/Herbst era, in order to get people excited again. Regardless of whether it's Smith or not, I really want somebody from the outside to be the next coach. I strongly suspect that most of the 80-plus% of fans who wanted Rich to leave would agree. I believe hiring Herbst would be the worst UND coaching hire, in terms of hiring from within, since Pat Behrns took over for Gene Murphy.

it would not be the worst hire and another thing is maybe we should not judge the assistant that sits next to the head coach. because we all know it is human nature to do things a little different without even thinking about it, when you are in charge things are different. do not forget this guy has turned down a DI job to stay committed to UND and Rich, the community as well as the player he brought in. i saw that herbst has been coaching a while, he has experience at different levels and schools in different regions of USA. i saw he was a head coach at a junior college and one as an assistant.... by the way i think that school won a national championship

[UND92,96]

it would not be the worst hire and another thing is maybe we should not judge the assistant that sits next to the head coach. because we all know it is human nature to do things a little different without even thinking about it, when you are in charge things are different. do not forget this guy has turned down a DI job to stay committed to UND and Rich, the community as well as the player he brought in. i saw that herbst has been coaching a while, he has experience at different levels and schools in different regions of USA. i saw he was a head coach at a junior college and one as an assistant.... by the way i think that school won a national championship

I have to say that I'm shocked that two people have actually posted that they think Herbst is the guy. Even if one were to give him a pass with regard to the program's struggles the past few years, how can you give him a pass with regard to recruiting? Do I really need to rehash the disaster that was last year's recruiting class? Phillips, Miller, Wills, Blackwell and Probst had stellar careers at UND, didn't they? You simply don't promote assistant coaches to become the next head coach unless the program is doing well, and/or unless the assistant in question has an excellent track record as a head coach elsewhere, and/or unless he's done exceptionally well in recruiting at his current position. Hakstol turned out to be an excellent hire, but the hockey program was on much more solid ground than is the men's basketball program, nobody thought UND needed to go in a completely different direction from Blais, and Hakstol had proven to be a very good recruiter. Buning will have ticked off a lot of fans if he promotes Herbst. Do you guys really think all the fans who were leaving after the women's games were thinking to themselves, "if only Herbst were in charge, I'd stay?"

One more thing--if Herbst actually has turned down other jobs, what in the world was he thinking? He knew, or at least should have known that Rich was on very thin ice at UND. Was he waiting around for Rich to be fired, thinking he'd really be next in line? He couldn't have possibly predicted the chain of events at Northern Iowa that gave Rich the opportunity to finish out his coaching career elsewhere.

[star2city]

I don't have a candidate in mind, but there have to be numerous highly qualified head coaches in DII that would love to get a chance at the mid-major DI level. Someone that's been around the block, knows the X's and O's, but has never really been given a chance with a decent budget.

This article was posted earlier, but is worthy of repeating:

Little Big Bang Theory

5. Coaching

The "Coach as CEO" hiring trend in college basketball

[biff]

Just curious, do you guys know what your bball head coach gets paid?

[UND92,96]

From Wayne Nelson today:

Sioux men's head coach Rich Glas said his Grand Forks home is for sale, but it has nothing to do with rumors that he will apply for an assistant coaching opening at Northern Iowa, he said.

Glas said he and his wife, Sandy, decided to downsize their home in Grand Forks because their son, former UND football player, Jeff, is moving out. The Glases also want to downsize because they recently bought a lake cabin on Spider Lake near Park Rapids, Minn.

"That's the irony of the whole thing," Glas said of the UNI assistant coaching opening and his Grand Forks home being for sale.

Glas said he hasn't applied for the assistant coaching position at Northern Iowa. Asked if he would accept the job if Northern Iowa head coach Ben Jacobson offered it to him, Glas said:

"I don't know. It's a big decision, a lot of things will have to weigh into it."

C'mon, Rich. This is the worst-kept "secret" in town.

[star2city]

Not saying he is even a possiblity, but this type quality DII coach would be great for a DI UND basketball program: http://www.lopers.com/mbball/coaches.htm

He put on a coaching clinic against Glass the last time UND played them. There are great DII coaches out there that don't get a DI chance.

[ESPNInsider]

Do you guys really think all the fans who were leaving after the women's games were thinking to themselves, "if only Herbst were in charge, I'd stay?"

It comes down to wins and losses. If Herbst is hired, all the rercruits do end up coming (should be a great class) and the team starts winning you will see more and more people in the stands. Or do you think if the team is 15-1 and rolling over teams people will file out of the arena saying "if only Craig Smith were coaching, then I'ld stay"

Or maybe you think that if Smith is hired, he loses many of the recruits for this season, but is 7-7, the gym will be packed and the kids will be holding "Craig Smith for President" signs at the games.

Herbst has put in his time with the program, maybe they had some tough times while he was here, but he also deserves a shot to run the team himself, using HIS plays, HIS styles, HIS decisions, HIS recruiting. He deserves a shot, whether it be a short contract to give the school options, he deserves a shot.

...don't ask where I've been, my computer had an extremely bad virus

[UND Fan]

It comes down to wins and losses. If Herbst is hired, all the rercruits do end up coming (should be a great class) and the team starts winning you will see more and more people in the stands. Or do you think if the team is 15-1 and rolling over teams people will file out of the arena saying "if only Craig Smith were coaching, then I'ld stay"

Or maybe you think that if Smith is hired, he loses many of the recruits for this season, but is 7-7, the gym will be packed and the kids will be holding "Craig Smith for President" signs at the games.

Herbst has put in his time with the program, maybe they had some tough times while he was here, but he also deserves a shot to run the team himself, using HIS plays, HIS styles, HIS decisions, HIS recruiting. He deserves a shot, whether it be a short contract to give the school options, he deserves a shot.

*************************************

I know Randall and he is a good guy but there are a lot of "ifs" in your scenario. We have thought that UND has had some good recruiting classes in the last few years but we didn't see the results. I certainly hope this is a great class but using a 15-1 example is very optimistic - especially with our not knowing how Koenig, Harkens and Bledsoe are going to be health-wise.

Regarding your 7-7 comment, three of the committed recruits have indicated they will attend UND with or without Rich being the head man. A new coach coming in would likely have an avenue to find a talented kid or two to join the program. In other words, the 15-1 and 7-7 comparison with mostly the same kids is a stretch.

Bottom line - Randall does deserve consideration but I would guess that Buning will go with a new face, someone who has a winning background, who plays exciting ball, and will renew and maintain interest in the program. I don't think he will "gamble" that Randall is that right guy!

An interesting side line -- This may also prompt Buning to have an early heart-to-heart with Kupchella. Candidates are going to want to know if we are going DI. Some will think that's great - others will have concerns about the transition period, etc.

[UND92,96]

It comes down to wins and losses. If Herbst is hired, all the rercruits do end up coming (should be a great class) and the team starts winning you will see more and more people in the stands. Or do you think if the team is 15-1 and rolling over teams people will file out of the arena saying "if only Craig Smith were coaching, then I'ld stay"

Or maybe you think that if Smith is hired, he loses many of the recruits for this season, but is 7-7, the gym will be packed and the kids will be holding "Craig Smith for President" signs at the games.

Herbst has put in his time with the program, maybe they had some tough times while he was here, but he also deserves a shot to run the team himself, using HIS plays, HIS styles, HIS decisions, HIS recruiting. He deserves a shot, whether it be a short contract to give the school options, he deserves a shot.

...don't ask where I've been, my computer had an extremely bad virus

I've made my points regarding WHY Herbst shouldn't be hired. I'm not going to re-hash most of them again, other than to say that promoting an assistant from a modestly successful program is a big gamble, particularly when the fans have made it as clear as they have that they're down on the present regime. But even if you don't think Smith is the guy, it's not like he's the ONLY alternative to Herbst out there. By the way, don't you have have a relative who played for Smith this past year? What does he think of Smith as a coach?

Although it's been nearly 20 years ago, I can recall Rich Glas's first season. The team was terrible, but they played hard, and the fans were patient because they were (and are) willing to give a new coach more slack than somebody who's been there for several years. Ditto for Roger Thomas when he took over for Behrns. If Herbst were to get the job, he wouldn't get that same sort of slack from the fans, IMO. I believe a lot of fans consider him to have been part of the problem, rather than the solution.

[UND92,96]

McFeely weighs in on the Glas situation. [url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=123270

[katohtr]

It comes down to wins and losses. If Herbst is hired, all the rercruits do end up coming (should be a great class) and the team starts winning you will see more and more people in the stands. Or do you think if the team is 15-1 and rolling over teams people will file out of the arena saying "if only Craig Smith were coaching, then I'd stay"

Or maybe you think that if Smith is hired, he loses many of the recruits for this season, but is 7-7, the gym will be packed and the kids will be holding "Craig Smith for President" signs at the games.

I know Randall and he is a good guy but there are a lot of "ifs" in your scenario. We have thought that UND has had some good recruiting classes in the last few years but we didn't see the results. I certainly hope this is a great class but using a 15-1 example is very optimistic - especially with our not knowing how Koenig, Harkens and Bledsoe are going to be health-wise.

Regarding your 7-7 comment, three of the committed recruits have indicated they will attend UND with or without Rich being the head man. A new coach coming in would likely have an avenue to find a talented kid or two to join the program. In other words, the 15-1 and 7-7 comparison with mostly the same kids is a stretch.

Obviously 15-1 and 7-7 are complete hypothetical scenarios, nobody knows who's gonna be in charge of the team and what kind of effect it will have on them....but you missed the point. The examples that were given by ESPNInsider were to point out that if Randall is given the chance that he deserves, AND produces--all of you (most posters expressing their disapproval) would be seated comfortably on the Herbst bandwagon. All this really boils down to is that you want your beloved Sioux to START WINNING, right?. So.....who's to say that Randall's not your guy? I get the idea that he should be partially to blame for the misfortunes up to this point. However--to have the NCC player of the year that many times, along with a damn good supporting cast each year, and continue to underachieve season after season....there's only one person who should be wearing the dunce hat.

Some close sources say that Randall has some entirely different styles and beliefs about how to play the game of basketball. Isn't that exactly what everyone wants? Change? Why does he have to be "thrown under the bus" along with Rich and his philosophies? Although it all seems to make perfect sense, you can't put Herbst at fault for what has happened with the men's BB team. A team could have the best assistant that college basketball has seen, and it wouldn't mean SQUAT if the players didn't want to play for and/or respect the Head Coach (which is what I've heard happened in this situation). Herbst has the respect of the players, and as I mentioned before--he'd bring a new look and new ideas to the gymnasium.

I really think you guys should give the man a chance!

[siouxjoy]

my .02

I don't know who the next head coach should be. I am definitely not an insider for the MBB program, and won't claim to know more than any one else, but I do believe that there should be a national search.

The MBB program may have been less than stellar recently, but it is a storied program with fabulous facilities, and as such should attract interest from around the country.

Should Herbst become coach? Maybe. He deserves an interview, IMO. After that it is up to him to show the decision makers that he is the right person for the job.