UND basketball in dI

[UND92,96]

I maintain my stance that I would really prefer UND to stay dII barring a dI conference invite or a big football scholarship cut. But IF dI is the direction UND is heading, what are people's thoughts of how it would affect UND basketball? My own personal opinions are:

pro's

1. men would probably start getting the caliber of players we were getting in the 70's, early 80's, and early 90's.

2. occasional (road) games vs. big name opponents.

3. women would probably be immediately very competitive with all but the elite teams.

con's

1. conference?

2. lower attendance due to poor home schedule, which would be an even bigger problem without a conference.

3. increased expenses, which would hurt even more considering number 2 above.

4. while it may help men's recruiting, it could very well hurt the women's recruiting.

5. no more national championship possibilities for women.

6. lengthy period of post-season ineligibility, which would be a much bigger problem for the women than the men.

Thoughts?

[star2city]

I maintain my stance that I would really prefer UND to stay dII barring a dI conference invite or a big football scholarship cut. But IF dI is the direction UND is heading, what are people's thoughts of how it would affect UND basketball? My own personal opinions are:

pro's

1. men would probably start getting the caliber of players we were getting in the 70's, early 80's, and early 90's.

2. occasional (road) games vs. big name opponents.

3. women would probably be immediately very competitive with all but the elite teams.

con's

1. conference?

2. lower attendance due to poor home schedule, which would be an even bigger problem without a conference.

3. increased expenses, which would hurt even more considering number 2 above.

4. while it may help men's recruiting, it could very well hurt the women's recruiting.

5. no more national championship possibilities for women.

6. lengthy period of post-season ineligibility, which would be a much bigger problem for the women than the men.

Not sure that recruiting would be hurt. There are a number of gals that leave Minnesota and even ND for DI opportunities and normally they are much more inclined than men to stay closer to family:

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=112297

[UND92,96]

Not sure that recruiting would be hurt. There are a number of gals that leave Minnesota and even ND for DI opportunities and normally they are much more inclined than men to stay closer to family:

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=112297

[dakotadan]

Is it NDSUs going DI that is affecting their recruiting or is it their transitional period? There is a difference.

[UND92,96]

Is it NDSUs going DI that is affecting their recruiting or is it their transitional period? There is a difference.

I can't say. All I know is that Roebuck has said on more than one occasion that it would be MORE dificult to recruit if UND were dI. Perhaps that would change upon becoming tournament-eligible. In any event, I have to defer to his opinion on this since he should know better than any of us.

[Cratter]

I maintain my stance that I would really prefer UND to stay dII barring a dI conference invite or a big football scholarship cut. But IF dI is the direction UND is heading, what are people's thoughts of how it would affect UND basketball? My own personal opinions are:

pro's

1. men would probably start getting the caliber of players we were getting in the 70's, early 80's, and early 90's.

2. occasional (road) games vs. big name opponents.

3. women would probably be immediately very competitive with all but the elite teams.

con's

1. conference?

2. lower attendance due to poor home schedule, which would be an even bigger problem without a conference.

3. increased expenses, which would hurt even more considering number 2 above.

4. while it may help men's recruiting, it could very well hurt the women's recruiting.

5. no more national championship possibilities for women.

6. lengthy period of post-season ineligibility, which would be a much bigger problem for the women than the men.

Thoughts?

The way its worded is that the men could have national championship possibilities still.

I do know what you mean though.

[UND92,96]

The way its worded is that the men could have national championship possibilities still.

I do know what you mean though.

I figured if I included the men in con 5, that would imply that we have national championship possibilities now.

[4siouxnow]

The way its worded is that the men could have national championship possibilities still.

I do know what you mean though.

[coachdags]

I have said more than once I believe it would be a mistake for UND to leap into the Div 1 Arena....That being said...

* If we go we must have a conference...To try and recreate the Old NCC would be most Logical...A conference of rival instituations that Travel up and Down off the I-29 Corridor.. For cost,efficency,and Rival reasons...

* Do we Have the Funding... For the Non- Conference Scheduling Road Trips?

* Will the fans have the Patience it will take to become successful...I have lived in GF for around 25 years in that time..Hockey,Football,Mens and Womens Basketball in over 100 seasons have had less the 10-15 of them below .500?...And our fans are still not happy all the time?

* Make no Mistake..Hockey will be our only National Championship oppurtunities

* We will be able to compete for Conference titles..but in all other sports NO NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS!

A great season for us will be (After the Probation Period of 7-10 yrs) a 1st round Sacraficial Lamb in the big dance or tourney..

*I like the thought of the challenge to play better quailty oppontents, and Home Attendance should take care of itself... ..We will need the money , to help defray the addiontional costs..

* We need to make a decision this being on the fence , will eventually hurt all our recrcuitung...

* I feel it was a HUGE OVERSIGHT! The last committee assigned did not Include the most Knowledgeable

Person we have on our Staff......ROB BOLLINGER.....He understands the Past,Present, and Future Fundraising that it will take to Make or not Make this move...

Just a few of my thoughts?

[govikes27]

Not sure that recruiting would be hurt. There are a number of gals that leave Minnesota and even ND for DI opportunities and normally they are much more inclined than men to stay closer to family:

[url="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=112297

[dakotadan]

* Make no Mistake..Hockey will be our only National Championship oppurtunities

Men's Hockey, Women's hockey, Football, and Lacrosse all should have NC opportunities. I also think that with the correct funding* swimming and diving could be very competative. They may not necessarily win National Championships every year, but I think they could be very competative. Someone made a comment to me once that really stuck... If it was all about winning National Championships, everyone would be moving to the NAIA.

I really do like the idea of a DI NCC. It would help solve most of the travel issue with a DI move. It would also help keep the fan interest with known schools.

*Obviously funding is the key issue in this entire debate.

[coachdags]

Men's Hockey, Women's hockey, Football, and Lacrosse all should have NC opportunities. I also think that with the correct funding* swimming and diving could be very competative. They may not necessarily win National Championships every year, but I think they could be very competative. Someone made a comment to me once that really stuck... If it was all about winning National Championships, everyone would be moving to the NAIA.

I really do like the idea of a DI NCC. It would help solve most of the travel issue with a DI move. It would also help keep the fan interest with known schools.

*Obviously funding is the key issue in this entire debate.

you would really have to hope that the coaching staffs could recruit a bigger,better,stronger more talented athlete to all programs...example in swimming....

a while back i had a young bartender work for me that was a 10 time all american swimmer at UND....his top time in the butterfly..would not quailfy him in the womens big 12 swim meet held that same year as his last year of competition......

it will not be about chasing national championships...div 1 will be about conference championships and a chance at the qualifing...big tourney......which im sorry to say i'm afraid we can not compete in....

just for the record...i just heard the other day that we will have around 200 days below freezeing....thats not a attractive climate, or area for the athlete we need....my thinking?

[coachdags]

i agree with football...good move for them

[Bison Pride]

It's hard to say exactly what the effects on recruiting would be. On one hand if you can schedule some games with big name opponents in BB and other sports you might attract those athletes who feel they have been overlooked and want to play against these other schools. Look at Ben Woodside for the Bison for example, he's probably one of the best players that has ever played at NDSU and there is no way he'd be there if it was still DII. He wasn't recruited by the Big10 schools I believe, but playing for the Bison he gets the opportunity to play against teams like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and also Kansas State and show them that they missed out. Programs may initially suffer because of the emphasis on "loading up" on young talent to be competative when they become playoff eligible. Although the Bison women are ineligble for the post season, it's still pretty sweet when an SEC team like Alabama comes into the BSA and gets schooled by a team from NORTH DAKOTA! My personal thoughts are the the Sioux would do fine in the sports they are competative in now, if people can remain patient.

[WYOBISONMAN]

The first year of the transition was very difficult in Basketball since you no longer count as a D2 for D2 school, but you don't count as a D1 for the D1 opponents either.....really a state of limbo. NDSU made the right move by redshirting all fresmen and trying to load up for subsequent seasons. This year has been great in Basketball with some great games. I am sure there are very few Bison fans that thought the redshirted freshmen would do so well this first year of competition, but thier better than expected performance and some real solid competition on the schedule has made year 2 a whole lot better than year 1!

[bincitysioux]

If we move to DI, we will probably still have games against schools like Mayville and Jamestown, at least throughout the transition period. But if we stay in DII, we will likely be competing against those schools for conference titles in five years or so.

[UND92,96]

If we move to DI, we will probably still have games against schools like Mayville and Jamestown, at least throughout the transition period. But if we stay in DII, we will likely be competing against those schools for conference titles in five years or so.

So long as UND stays dII, at least we will continue to be a part of a very respectable conference, albeit one a bit smaller in numbers than what we'd prefer. The DAC schools going dII would not change that. If we were to go dI, we might not have a conference at all for the foreseeable future. And we simply cannot gloss over the fact that we apparently have a budget deficit despite very large overall ticket sales, well above average ticket prices, and relatively limited travel distances. How would our finances look with far more scholarships to fund, much more travel, and probably less ticket revenue (basketball in particular)? Throw in the conference uncertainty, and it should give a person great concern about what dI would hold for UND. I'm not trying to be a pessimist--just a realist. If we have some sort of large untapped revenue source and a high likelihood of a conference invite, then going dI starts to look a whole lot better. But without those things, we need to be very careful.

[bincitysioux]

con's

1. conference?

2. lower attendance due to poor home schedule, which would be an even bigger problem without a conference.

3. increased expenses, which would hurt even more considering number 2 above.

4. while it may help men's recruiting, it could very well hurt the women's recruiting.

5. no more national championship possibilities for women.

6. lengthy period of post-season ineligibility, which would be a much bigger problem for the women than the men.

Thoughts?

Obviously the conference situation is paramount to the success of the basketball teams, probably more so than any of the other sports. Last season home conference games drew nearly twice as many fans as the non-conference games. The only three existing conference options are the Big Sky, Mid-Con, and Horizon League. Realistically, all three of those are long-shots, especially the Horizon. I really think that some sort of DI NCC is going to emerge in the near future, and that is where UND will land, which means no auto-bid for basketball for 13 years, and no tournament berth for at least 13 years.

I wonder if attendance will struggle as much in basketball for UND as it has for NDSU? I'm sure there would be a drop off until a conference was found, but I doubt that it would be as severe as NDSU's has. UND basketball is played in a state of the art facility, which helps draw fans. I also think that since Basketball is a tertiary sport at UND, the fans that regularly attend now, are the really devoted ones that will likely be there in the future. But just being labeled DI, could bring in more of the casual fans. I go to several games now, but honestly I'd probably buy season tickets if we were DI, because it would be a better brand of basketball. We only have six conference home games now, and last year attendance for those games were 3,907. Remember, if we were DI we would have, at minimum, one home game that would be held in the REA and draw probably 8,000-9,000, in NDSU. And a home game with SDSU would likely draw no less than any NCC conference game did last year, which is right around 4,000. So those two games would be the equivalent (attendance-wise) of three NCC games. That means we would need to find only 3 other "big draw" games, for things to look similar to what they do now, attendance wise. If one or more NCC school moves up at the same time, any one of them could be one of those "big draw" games.

[SiouxMeNow]

Although the Bison women are ineligble for the post season, it's still pretty sweet when an SEC team like Alabama comes into the BSA and gets schooled by a team from NORTH DAKOTA!

ANY team that comes in and shoots 14% in the 1st Half Sucks! PERIOD!! (SEC, d1...whatever! That's just pathetic basketball on ANY level)

[UND Fan]

ANY team that comes in and shoots 14% in the 1st Half Sucks! PERIOD!! (SEC, d1...whatever! That's just pathetic basketball on ANY level)

SiouxMeNow - You make a good point, it is amazing that an SEC team would shoot that poorly but, as Bison Pride pointed out, it is also pretty amazing that a team from North Dakota would kick the crap out of the University of Alabama in a major sport.

[new2sioux2]

it is also pretty amazing that a team from North Dakota would kick the crap out of the University of Alabama in a major sport.

but gets beat by a NCC DII school. (UMD) I don't agree that going DI for the most part is a better brand of basketball...sure the big names are, but as the previous post pointed out...shooting that poorly is not great basketball. Right now the women are playing some pretty d#@* good basketball...fast paced and exciting with contributions from all. They have a real shot at a national championship, but it seems some people don't think that counts for much because it's DII. I feel the transition period would be very difficult to get through, but I suppose it has to be gone through at some point if you make the change...maybe that needs to be changed..why should it be such a long period?

[WYOBISONMAN]

AS for NDSU's attendance, this year is the first year in a while that NDSU has had a team with potential to really excite fans. It will take some time, but I am sure attendance will head up as this young team matures, gets more wins and approaches post season eligibility. While the Bison Sports Arena is a marginal D1 BB facility, it can hold a pretty good crowd. Next year this Bison team will be winning more and we will see a big bump in attendance....

The key to getting a crowd is to put out a good (exciting) product and market it. A big part of that good product is having exciting competition coming to your home court. There is no question that being D1 has helped a great deal in that regard.....

[bincitysioux]

I don't agree that going DI for the most part is a better brand of basketball...sure the big names are, but as the previous post pointed out...shooting that poorly is not great basketball. Right now the women are playing some pretty d#@* good basketball...fast paced and exciting with contributions from all.

I was referring to the quality of the competition. I was at the Mayville St game this week. That is not the type of competition that I think should be on the floor with the Sioux Women.

[SiouxMeNow]

SiouxMeNow - You make a good point, it is amazing that an SEC team would shoot that poorly but, as Bison Pride pointed out, it is also pretty amazing that a team from North Dakota would kick the crap out of the University of Alabama in a major sport.

Not really...some "other" ND school has "kicked" other major DI schools like Michigan, Michigan State, MINNESOTA, et al in Division I sport and is actually considered a rival by some?? Wanna guess who?

[knowledge]

Not really...some "other" ND school has "kicked" other major DI schools like Michigan, Michigan State, MINNESOTA, et al in Division I sport and is actually considered a rival by some?? Wanna guess who?

I don't want to start a pissing match. But people at NDSU must realize that even if Bama is an SEC team they still aren't an above average women's basketball program. It's like a DIII school like Concordia beating Moorhead State....Even though their DII they aren't good. They need to take talent into the equation. Beat a big conference mid level or higher school and then talk like it is a big step. For now it is a modest step and I say Congo Rats for that........but it's not a big deal.