Illinois files appeal

[PCM]

From the Rockford Register Star:

UI appeals NCAA ruling that Chief Illiniwek `hostile and abusive'

CHAMPAIGN, Ill. -- The University of Illinois has appealed an NCAA ruling that could bar the school from hosting championship events at its Urbana-Champaign campus because of the school's nickname and mascot, the school announced Friday.

This new policy conflicts directly with the established NCAA principles of institutional responsibility and autonomy. ... Your failure or refusal to exempt UIUC from this arbitrarily derived policy will significantly affect our institutional autonomy and impair our ability to participate fully and equally as a member institution in NCAA competition," Eppley wrote in the letter, dated Thursday.

Now it should get interesting.

[Diggler]

They should have an exemption a week from now. When UND uses the same logic on their appeal, they'll be rejected again. Wouldn't expect anything less from the NCAA.

[dakotadan]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I am going to be very pi$$ed if they receive an exemption in a week.

[PCM]

From the News-Gazette (Champaign-Urbana, Ill.):

UI appeals NCAA policy

The NCAA's policy restricting postseason competition for schools using American Indian imagery interferes with the schools' autonomy and is the result of a flawed process by the NCAA Executive Committee, according to an appeal filed by the University of Illinois.

It also states the NCAA did not take into account the 1995 finding by the Office of Civil Rights regarding Chief Illiniwek, and that it relied heavily on "inaccurate, incomplete and misleading information supplied by one individual," to which the UI was not given an opportunity to respond.

It also cites a 1995 U.S. Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights finding that Chief Illiniwek, while offensive to some individuals, did not constitute a racially hostile environment on campus.

Finally, the appeal argues the NCAA failed to follow its own procedures in enacting the policy. It states the NCAA Executive Committee cannot enact legislation, and the policy should have been subject to a vote by the membership.

[The Sicatoka]

From the News-Gazette (Champaign-Urbana, Ill.):

UI appeals NCAA policy

There's a nasty echo when I read that and think about UND.

[The Sicatoka]

The NCAA's policy ... interferes with the schools' autonomy and is the result of a flawed process by the NCAA Executive Committee, according to an appeal filed by the University of Illinois.

If they grant UI's appeal with that basis, doesn't the NCAA tacitly admit that every appeal should be granted because they overstepped their bounds?

[dagies]

They should have an exemption a week from now. When UND uses the same logic on their appeal, they'll be rejected again. Wouldn't expect anything less from the NCAA.

Yes, that will be very interesting. But then I'd like to see what the Council of Presidents feels about that...

[dagies]

If they grant UI's appeal with that basis, doesn't the NCAA tacitly admit that every appeal should be granted because they overstepped their bounds?

It would seem that way to my little mind.

[PCM]

They should have an exemption a week from now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that would be fine by me. Heck, if Illinois received its exemption on Monday, that would be even better.

The more exemptions the NCAA grants, the more discriminatory the policy appears toward UND. Just think of the NCAA as Navin Johnson (Steve Martin) in The Jerk and UND as the box of Chiclets.

Navin: For one dollar I'll guess you weight, your height, or your sex. The most exciting thing on the midway. Imagine the thrill of getting your weight guessed by a professional. You can blow up your cheeks, you can stick out your chest, but you're not going to fool the guesser. How about you sir? Step right up!

Carnival Rube: Hey honey, let's see how good this guy is. What'd I win?

Navin: Uh, anything in this general area right in here. Anything below the stereo and on this side of the bicentennial glasses. Anything between the ashtrays and the thimble. Anything in this three inches right in here in this area. That includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers.

Carnival Rube: No sir! Come on honey! He thought he had a rube.

[Sioux-cia]

Two things the Illini have that we don't,

1) There are no surviving Illini. So, by allowing San Diego to keep the nickname Aztecs because 'they are extinct', the NC$$ has to grant the appeal. (My logic.)

2) The Fighting Illini name is well documented as referring to the students and alumni of UIUC who served in the military, not to the Indian tribe. (Again, my logic.)

And I to have to ALSO state, IT'S ABOUT FRIGGING TIME!!

[YaneA]

http://www.uillinois.edu/trustees/

the above is the link to the text of Illinois' appeal. Click on "NCAA appeal" in the box at left of webpage

[Let'sGoHawks!]

Looks very similar to UND's appeal. I bet they get taken off the list. If that is the case, UND's case keeps getting better. I like the "competitive disadvantage" argument. I am not sure if UND used that in their initial appeal.

[Sioux-cia]

I do like their statement re the use of Fighting before the team name and the listing of all the non-hositle and abusive teams that use it.

I just thought of this. If mentioned before, sorry. Instead of filing for exemption from the policy, why aren't the institutions on the list of shame fighting to have the the policy itself removed from the rule book?

[The Sicatoka]

From UI's appeal, namely the letter from US OCR to UI regarding campus climate:

"Although the Chief Illiniwek symbol, logo, and the name "Fighting Illini" are offensive to the complainants and others interviewed by OCR, "offensiveness", in and of itself, is not dispositive in assessing a racially hostile environment claim under Title VI, particularly in light of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution."

The OCR seems to think campuses need this crazy concept called "free speech", even if the speech offends some.

I guess the NCAA needs to have a "teachable moment" with the US OCR.

[PCM]

The only thing I see in UI's appeal that doesn't apply to UND is the lack of a namesake tribe. Other than that, practically every point UI makes in its appeal could also be used by UND.

The point I was trying make with my Navin Johnson reference is that with every new appeal the NCAA grants, it has to give a reason for granting it. And every time the NCAA does that, it finds reasons to give exemptions that just happen NOT to apply to UND.

Illinois' exemption (and I have little doubt UI will get it) will have to be different from other previously granted exemptions.

At some point, it will become obvious that the NCAA is finding reasons to exempt almost everyone except UND, a university that can also make a very strong case that it's not hostile or abusive.

A judge or jury might want to ask the NCAA how it is that it can exempt so many universities for different reasons, but narrow its focus so finely that UND remains ensared by a policy that almost everyone else escapes?

Edited October 14, 2005 by PCM

[PCM]

I guess the NCAA needs to have a "teachable moment" with the US OCR.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this tells us why the NCAA needed the "hostile and abusive" language it chose to use.

[Sioux-cia]

From UI's appeal, namely the letter from US OCR to UI regarding campus climate:

The OCR seems to think campuses need this crazy concept called "free speech", even if the speech offends some.

I guess the NCAA needs to have a "teachable moment" with the US OCR.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Didn't one of those highly esteemed lawyers quoted in the Herald say that belonging to the NC$$ is voluntary? Therefore, according to him, Free Speech is not a point of law that can be used in a lawsuit against them?!

[dagies]

A bit of a tangent here, I know, and I suppose this points the the anti-trust arguments so often brought up regarding the NCAA, etc. I've not paid that much attention to this stuff in the past, so don't know much about it.

Sure, membership in the NCAA is voluntary, but what options does a university have if it wants to compete in intercollegiate athletics at a high level?

[SiouxMeNow]

A bit of a tangent here, I know, and I suppose this points the the anti-trust arguments so often brought up regarding the NCAA, etc.  I've not paid that much attention to this stuff in the past, so don't know much about it.

Sure, membership in the NCAA is voluntary, but what options does a university have if it wants to compete in intercollegiate athletics at a high level?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

none...which would seem to be an anti-trust suit against the NCAA itself but that's been tried UND needs to follow the Illinii (sp?) suit closely...let "THEM" let Illinois off because they're "NOT" hostile and abusive....but because...their "TRIBE" doesn't exist (PLUS DI SCHOOLS WITH $$$ are TOO IMPORTANT!)

all the more ammo for the NCAA "criteria" being ARBITRARY AND CAPRICIOUS!

[redwing77]

The NCAA doesn't look at OCR stuff and all that jazz. They only care about what the tribes think. The NCAA PR guy said as much on the Scott Hennan show. I doubt they even read our appeal. They only looked at the Tribes statements and made their decision based upon that.

[PCM]

The NCAA doesn't look at OCR stuff and all that jazz.

Edited October 15, 2005 by PCM

[mikejm]

The NCAA doesn't look at OCR stuff and all that jazz.  They only care about what the tribes think.  The NCAA PR guy said as much on the Scott Hennan show.  I doubt they even read our appeal.  They only looked at the Tribes statements and made their decision based upon that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This simply points out the importance of UND getting out to Devils Lake and meeting with the Spirit Lake tribe ASAP. I don't know if the university is going to have to pay the tribe for its approval or what, but its becoming quite clear that the only thing the NCAA cares about is what the namesake tribes think.

Spirit Lake has not responded to the NCAA's requests for input; I'd say they are awaiting visits from Pres. Kupchella and AD Buning (and, perhaps a check) before sending anything to the NCAA. Plenty of

[PCM]

From The News-Gazette:

(Champaign-Urbana, Ill.)

Win or lose, UI wants off NCAA list

URBANA

[Sioux-cia]

From The News-Gazette:

(Champaign-Urbana, Ill.)

Win or lose, UI wants off NCAA list

[redwing77]

I doubt it. UIUC will have their appeal approved within a week. The school is too big to have its appeal be rejected.

PCM: Arguments are only valid if they are listened to. UND could and probably did use a similar argument in their appeal, but it didn't matter because they didn't read it anyways.

IMO- they got to reject one appeal and that's really all they need to legitimize their stance. They probably will approve all of the remaining appeals that will be filed.